Bad Guy Ed and Tammy Doss (aka Magick and Logician)

[C.F.C]

These people were loaned a male ball python for breeding about 4 years ago. Well after the breeding was complete we talked about setting a meeting up to get the male back from Tammy. The day was set, we agreed that we would touch base the morning of the set day to pick a time to get the male back. Well the set day came and I called to set up a time to meet. Well long story short I never heard anything else or got the snake back from the breeding loan. Which I might add was my son's snake.

I saw Their add today for a female pastel, so I set up a time to pick the snake up from them. So we meet and I asked what happen to my sons snake. I got a handful lies from them in less than 2 minutes. It went from "I thought we gave him back to you" to "I sold him" then they said " we took him to Rob's(my friends) pet store". Well guess what Rob( who met me at the time of this meeting with Ed and Tammy) doesn't run a pet store, never has.

As for the female they are selling, they said o.k. we'll take 50 dollars off this female which was at least 200 or 300 grams lighter than what they said she was. I said no thanks I wanted my male back or 100 dollars or I was taking this female. So Ed grabs a pen and paper and goes to right my car tag down which was fine I didn't care I did nothing wrong. All I wanted was something for what we were out, which I felt was more than right, for 2 reason the main reason is because it was my sons snake and the other was just because they thought they had gotten away and would never hear from me again. So after threats of getting the police involved I put the snake in their bag and said good luck selling it through Fauna you'll be on the BOI when I return home. So if you want a pastel female that's said to be 1200 grams I'd look some where else because the one they have might be 800 and is very very thin and probably has other issues as well. Thank God i didn't bring it home probably would have killed off my collection.

 

[C.F.C]

My mistake for adding Logician in the Heading if that can be edited please do so.

 

[brd7666]

Can't edit BOI stuff. So you let these people borrow a snake four years ago, and now you want it back? Maybe I didn't read it right. Did you try to get this snake back before now? By the way, if you were to just take a snake from them, that would be theft. Do you have any more proof?

 

[perfectly_flawed]

If you loaned the animal out 4 years ago why are you just now taking steps to try to get it back?

 

[Lucille]

You loaned out a ball python 4 years ago. (A normal, or what?)
It was not even your snake. It belonged to your son.
After 4 years, you are now trying to get money.

Got any emails? And have you notified them? I want to hear their side.

And your son's as well, he may be in the midst of other things in his life, we don't even know if he wants it back.

 

[Matt2979]

Like it's already been said, please supply us with e-mails so we can actually see what's going on.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you tried to get the snake back after the breeding...that same season, right?? That collection "meeting" never happened and you didn't try again until you saw them advertise a pastel female, 4 years later??

Why didn't you try to get it before now? Is this a normal male that you want $100 for? And, how old is your son?

I realize all of that sounds nosy, but you brought this out in public for a reason and I'm not totally following the sequence of events.

 

[C.F.C]

This was all done over the phone and because of distance we met when I loaned the snake. So I had no address. Yes I tried many times to get the animal back after the breeding season that year. I have proof of a witness whom contacted me about Ed and Tammy using the snake. He was also with me when I confronted them today. I contacted them many many times and left voice mails. They dropped off the face of the earth. I looked for them at shows. So when I saw their post that was the first Id see of them. As for had I taken their animal yes I know it would have been theft had I taken it. That's why I didn't. Its not the point of the value of the snake it was the point that they were trusted and then dropped off the face of the earth. As far as my son goes, he's always wanted that snake back, it was his first. At the time he was 11. I learned my lesson and use my own animals and do no loaning,unless its a very close friend. luckily it wasn't our lesser pastels or one of our bee's ect.
This is a hobby that my son and I have built and allows us to enjoy something together. Like I said its not about the snake, it's the point of the matter.

 

[Dachande]

Regretfully, I am the one who introduced everyone. I met Ed through monitors and every transaction prior to this was textbook satisfaction on both parts. Everyone got what they wanted at their best convenience. I thought a lot of them before hand. Tammy mentions pythons and I suggested my friend's male. Yes he was normal, but I don't give a damn if he was pied; and the money is out the window. It's the sting of trying to help a potential comrade and it blowing up in my face.
When asked the first response I got was "We gave it back to you." Obviously that's not the case or we wouldn't be here. Then I find it was sold to a pet store. I haven't worked at a pet store in 10 years.

Want an e-mail. Here's one.

From: "Tammy" <[email protected]>Add sender to Contacts
To: "Robert Wynne" <[email protected]>
Blue,

Our gang is feeding like crazy - Do you have any rats/pinks/fuzzies/chicks left? We got a working "reptile freezer" so we can take whatever you've got!!

Thanks,
Tammy
919-924-8826

Robert Wynne wrote:
> Hey,
> Just checkin in on the male ball python. Hope he did something for ya. By the way, I enclosed some photos of my boas. Finally got around to taking some pictures. Which reminds me to get a few shots of my female due in mid-April. She's huge!
> Anyway, enjoy the pics. If you need any rats for Yoda, let me know.
> 1st is the dh ghost from
> 2nd is an anery possible het albino (snow) produced by
> 3rd and 4th are my hogg islands produced by of Raleigh NC.
> Thanks,
> Blue
>


I edited only to keep other breeders names out of the post. Doesn't help much I know, but Scott kept in touch by phone more than I did, but the loan was more between them. I introduced them and was witness to later events.
Even if these two are out of reptiles or they have loyal customers and friends that will keep coming back, it's a lesson to any others out there the risks of loaning animals. No matter how well you think you know someone. Our mistake might be a lesson someone else doesn't have to learn.

 

[StrictlyExotics]

So this is 4 years later right? What would be considered compensation to you now to make this right since the orignal snake is long gone?

 

[americananie]

So this is 4 years later right? What would be considered compensation to you now to make this right since the orignal snake is long gone?

I wanted my male back or 100 dollars or I was taking this female.

I am with everyone else in that 4 years is a long time. Having said that, they did indeed never return the snake, and so I hope you get the compensation you want. $100 doesn't seem to be asking too much, as I am sure they could easily get that back on a nice pastel...
Did you just loan the male with no strings attached other than getting him back?
Have you had any contact with them since posting this?

 

[Matt2979]

Have you notified the other party of this thread? I would really like to hear their side of what happened. So far, we only have you telling us that someone wronged you. Not saying that you're not being truthful, but there are always two sides to every story.

If nothing else comes of this, I hope you at least realize how important it is to keep good records and keep everything in writing. For instance, I took place in a breeder loan where I was the one getting another person's animal. Even though I had very little, if anything, to lose over this, I made sure that EVERYTHING was in writing AND that he had several different ways to get in touch with me.

 

[Lucille]

Thank God i didn't bring it home probably would have killed off my collection.

You knew where the BOI was because you mentioned it to your sellers. But you never used it to get your child's snake back prior to now.

You've said that you tried plenty of times to get the snake and had no luck, yet you considered, even for a moment, doing further biz with sellers that you said took your child's snake?

You were ready to take the pastel at the meeting if your demands were not met. Yet when this was not a satisfactory trade all if a sudden you come here and dis the very same snake you were ready to carry away, with the above quote.

There's a lot of 'he said, she said' stuff going on here and we haven't heard from the other side. You didn't keep good records. But it just doesn't sit right, that you would approach this seller to buy a snake after you say he took your kid's snake, and the story only appears on the BOI after this deal went sour.

I'd get on you some more about record keeping, but we all have to start somewhere. The problem is, the other stuff going on here makes me tend to want to hear the seller's point of view because I can tell that there is important facts I have not yet heard here.

Maybe it's just me but if a seller did my kid wrong (and again, I don't know if that happened), I'd never even think of doing biz again with them. And if anyone did my kid wrong and it involved a reptile, you can bet you'd hear about it here loudly and in short order, not years later.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Just an FYI: A normal male is not worth 100.00 on the market these days. Some will pay that much perhaps, but realistically it's not worth 100.00

 

[C.F.C]

This is compensation enough really. I really just wanted to know what happen to our snake and saw the only opportunity that I'd probably ever get to find out.

As for them knowing about this they do. I told them I was going to put it here when we parted ways.

As for the deal going sour, I wasn't going to "steal" someone's snake I said I was going to take it to get some kind of reaction other than having their mouths drop on the ground after they figured out who I was.

As for record keeping you're right and I have kept all emails since or other contact info.

In the end I guess I got what I had be looking for, an answer as to what happen to the snake.I think I should have been told that long ago. It wasn't like I hadn't tried to see what was going on.

 

[dturner100]

Just an FYI: A normal male is not worth 100.00 on the market these days. Some will pay that much perhaps, but realistically it's not worth 100.00

Deb, valid point on the value of a normal male but this guy is saying these people were loaned a snake and never returned it claiming "They sold it" or what not.

If this guy is telling the truth on this matter I'd say ( within reason ) that the value of the snake is at the discretion of the op rather than fair market value.

 

[morph evolution]

you say they had the male for four years.and it was breeding loan.what did he breed to?and did u get pics of breeding taking place?was there off spring?how many times did he breed for them?in four years he should have a least bred 2 times.did u recieve any of the clutch?and did u try contacting them in the 4 years they had your male?in 4 years i would want to know how my animals are doing(are they eating?are they healthy?etc.)well boss lesson learned,do more research on people you do breeder loans to.

 

[C.F.C]

I was told that he didn't lock with anything, But who knows if that's true or not. Yes as I said already I learned a good lesson.

 

[LauraB]

I know it's moot at this point, since this is pretty much a dead issue, but like Lucille said, it seems there's been much left out.

I was told that he didn't lock with anything, But who knows if that's true or not

If you were told that, why did you state this in your first post?

These people were loaned a male ball python for breeding about 4 years ago. Well after the breeding was complete we talked about setting a meeting up to get the male back from Tammy

 

[morph evolution]

good catch laura,scott can you explain?

 

[C.F.C]

Last time I did any breeding you kept pairing am I right or wrong? (which was this past year)So they kept trying until the season was over from what I understood from them. Guess I should have stated it as a "breeding trail". My mistake.