Bad Guy Ed Clark, again

[TailsWithScales]

Everyone is guessing at prices.

The male black pastel was $250.00

a similar size female is worth $600.00 if you can find one.

If it is not the sex she bought I want it back and I will send her the male she paid for. and of course I will cover the shipping costs.

Ed,

Did Nicole send you the Vet invoices and proof that the vet probed it as a female??? I'm curious about that.


Sorry for my first post being so totally bloody confusing. Good freaking lord.

 

[spyder79]

actually the OP said that the Vet did not probe the snake. The vet judged the sex off of scales. Ill find the post real quick and quote it cause i do not remember exactly how it was worded.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I guess I care about the welfare of the animals MORE than you do.

I always check the temps on the receiving end or even at the hub which for me is usually Atlanta. These snakes should not have been shipped with these temps on both ends.

Ever think that he might have shipped in this weather in spite of "knowing better" to COVER the fact that the snake already had an R.I. (that would also cover the missex issue) Just wanted to get the sick snake out of his collection and hopefully some sap would take it to the vet?

By shipping this way and claiming he did what the buyer wanted although he did know better..he dodges a bullet when people attibute the illness to the weather...

Just saying

 

[Southern Wolf]

O, you misunderstand me. I simply was stating that was what Ed has offered on the table and he's seems to be stickin' with it. As far as more in vet bills then the cost of the snake, I don't think so. Not if it is in fact a female.

It's a tough call.

Thanks for correcting me and your right... its a tough call.

 

[spyder79]

found it post number 15

And again he says IF the animal is missexed. There is no IF I gave him documentation from the veterinarian. The phone number is on the receipts. You may call him an inquire, this is most definately a female. 3 subcaudal scales, no more.

That is how the vet diagnosed the sex issue.

now i do not know if snakes are like dragons but with bearded dragons some people rely on preanal pours to determine sex which can give a false reading on sex. i wonder if this would not be the same possibility in snakes.

 

[TailsWithScales]

actually the OP said that the Vet did not probe the snake. The vet judged the sex off of scales. Ill find the post real quick and quote it cause i do not remember exactly how it was worded.

At the second visit it was discovered that this snake was a FEMALE and not a Male. As mentioned above I was looking to purchase a male to breed with my female and this female was not what I had thought I purchased. This was confirmed by a reptile vet via probing.

I notified Mr. Clark of this on 1/14/09, also sending him receipts and a copy of the records indicating the snake is a female.

Here is her quote.

 

[spyder79]

Then that would mean she contradicted herself. as there was no mention of probing in the post i quoted.

 

[TailsWithScales]

Whoops.

That was taken from her first post.

 

[spyder79]

Whoops.

That was taken from her first post.

hmmm so i wonder which one it is did the vet probe it or did the vet determine sex from scales. I hate when people get their story confused on the boi lol.

 

[TailsWithScales]

Then that would mean she contradicted herself. as there was no mention of probing in the post i quoted.

And again he says IF the animal is missexed. There is no IF I gave him documentation from the veterinarian. The phone number is on the receipts. You may call him an inquire, this is most definately a female. 3 subcaudal scales, no more.

As far as I know counting the scales when probing is how you know. How deep the probe goes. So by Nicole saying "3 subcaudal scales" that means the probe only went in 3 subcaudal scales which makes it a female.

 

[TailsWithScales]

I hate when people get their story confused on the boi lol.

I clearly am having some confusion or something given a loopy post I made.

Ok back on topic. But yes this has been a bit of a confusing thread. lol

 

[Southern Wolf]

Everyone is guessing at prices.

The male black pastel was $250.00

a similar size female is worth $600.00 if you can find one.

If it is not the sex she bought I want it back and I will send her the male she paid for. and of course I will cover the shipping costs.

Let me see if I have this correct.

OP paid $250 for a supposed male
OP paid $375 for vet bills
total $625

I agree with the fact on shipping a missexed snake back on some occasions.

BUT

You sell the males for $250
you say send it back and I will pay shipping both ways ... Another $100
Total cost out to you $350

You get back a female you didnt know you have and resell for $600

Total profit to you $250.

Looks like you would be profiting from your mistake and the OP will still be out the $375 for vet bills.

Somehow this just doesnt seem right to me.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Brian, when you probe a snake, you count how many subcaudal scales deep the probe goes. That's what she was referencing by scale count. 3-5 is female.

Reading the emails and the choice of treatment. I'm a bit surprised the vet's administering injections. That's a more expensive route to go then the usual oral route. I've only used injections once, on a turtle with severe shell rot. Snakes have always been treated orally by my vets.

 

[spyder79]

from what im reading (im a google whore lol) the probing method in ball pythons is very subjective and can easily be miss-read. So it is quite possible that this vet misjudged the sex.
Alright im gone for the night. maybe this will be sorted by tomorrow.

 

[TailsWithScales]

Nicole,

Did you send Ed the vet records from the visits????

I'm just curious.

 

[Ed Clark]

Treating a URI is a very simple and straight forward deal.

You see a good herp vet that gives you a dose rate, a vial of injectable antibiotics such as Fortaz and 6 syringes after he or she injects the first treatment in the office while showing you how to do it. it involves you the snake owner to inject the BP every 3 days for a total of 7 injections. cost is maybe $90.00-$125.00 total for everything including the office visit.

I never heard of a vet bringing you back every 3 days to inject the snake unless he is trying to run up a big bill.

Here's an email from Nicole.

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UPDATE: Re: Message about: Captive Bred Black Pastel.
Thursday, January 14, 2010 4:31 PM
From:
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"Nicole Belval" <[email protected]>
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"Ed Clark" <[email protected]>
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* attachments_2010_01_12.zipattachments_2010_01_12.zip
* attachments_2010_01_14.zipattachments_2010_01_14.zip

Hello Ed,





There has been a lot to take in this week in regard to the male black pastel.



The black pastel went to the vet on Monday. He has a URI. The vet prescribed antibiotics as you suspected he would. We are to go back in every 3 days for 4 more injections (the first was given yesterday). The costs associated with the visits will total approximately $$520 –

 

[StrictlyExotics]

Here is my take on this situation...

First of all, too many people are confused because they know nothing about sexing a snake to comment regarding the vets method regarding "subcaudal" scales.

Ed.... Supposedly miss-sexed a snake which he says that will own up to per his TOS + 100.00 for shipping. If the OP's claim for a refund is that the snake is miss-sexed, follow his TOS and I am sure you will get whats in writing. Now, this more than acceptable had the snake not needed to see the vet for a URI.
If the OP does not want to ship the snake back because of the vet bills she has incurred due to the URI, then you have to toss out the miss-sexed animal. Honestly, its to your benefit if it is in fact a female anyhow.
Now Ed, you know better than to ship a snake in the weather it was shipped. However, even though she is a newbie, she is part to blame for this error she wanted it now. No matter what is by the OP, the fact still remains and will always remain, that it was to be bred this season.
What I fear is that if this wasnt a deal done by Ed, we would be reading this same thread with just another name on it because of the intent of the OP. She needed a male now and couldnt wait. Its unfortunate for her that it is a female in that regard but better for her in the long run.

Ed, give her a deal on a Black Pastel male, if you have one. If you dont have one, give her a deal on one of your gorgeous balls, how come I feel "Eds gorgeous balls" will come back and bite me someday, and gain some respect from someone who doesnt always want to believe what they read about you.... ME

 

[Ed Clark]

Ed, give her a deal on a Black Pastel male, if you have one. If you dont have one, give her a deal on one of your gorgeous balls, how come I feel "Eds gorgeous balls" will come back and bite me someday, and gain some respect from someone who doesnt always want to believe what they read about you.... ME

But of course!

I like your style Dean, how about I say keep everything you have and I send you a sweet looking male Black Pastel for $50.00 shipped on a nice warm day on both ends?

How's that for a deal Dean?

 

[StrictlyExotics]

Honestly,

I think in the long run for you, it will be better to take a little loss on this particular deal than it is to lose a prospective customer down the road. If it were me, and I know its not, a 150.00 credit towards something later down the road is much better than to lose say a 1000.00 customer who ends up reading this. Just my two cents but, its your business, not mine.

 

[illbeyoursoldier]

This post is quite ridiculous, as everyone seems confused. Even more so, I think it was unnecessary and very pre-mature to post a "Bad Guy" thread when he was given little to no opportunity to resolve the situation at hand.

From my opinion, Ed's customer service may not have been perfect, but it has been fine thus far. The OP wanted a snake for this breeding season right away, as she mentioned many times, and Ed shipped it as asked. And yes, although Ed is very much responsible for shipping this snake in the current terrible New Jersey weather, the OP is EQUALLY as responsible. Claiming ignorance and "not knowing better" is insufficient, and would not hold up in court or anywhere else - it seems to be an attempt to remove all blame from herself with the snake's illness.

He did not conceal that the snakes were feeding on live, and the risks of intestinal parasites when feeding live are not an unknown fact, and therefore cannot be pushed back on Ed either.

Ed's responses were timely, in my opinion on 12/30 she sent a response claiming frustration with FedEx, not Ed. The next e-mail from the OP to Ed was sent on 1/9, and Ed had responded somewhere in the middle, showing concerns asking her to let her know if there were any problems.

In the OP's e-mail on the 14th, it was suddenly Ed's fault, no longer FedEx's or anyone else's. This is were the OP all of a sudden learned about possible shipping errors in shipping live animals and is saying that they must of occurred without proof or even being sure herself. Sounds like she was told about the BOI, jumped up on here, read some things about Ed and panicked, becoming no longer friendly in her e-mails. Between this OP'S e-mail on the 14th and her next on the 16th, Ed DID respond stating he would work something out. By the 17th, she had already resolved to go the BOI.

Also yes, a female is worth MUCH more than a male. But it is still not what the OP wanted. So here are Ed's quoted words, taking responsibility, and offering to fix the problem:

Somewhere between 1/14 and 1/16:

I will exchange the BP if indeed it was missexed. if you deciede to keep it after you are finished treating it we can work something out. internal parasites can be introduced to a Bp many ways including feeding rodents.fecal exams are a regular precaution when keeping and recieving new snakes. keep me posted Ed

1/18

If I did not sex either of the ball pythons correctly I sincerely apologize for that and will replace the miss sexed BP with the correct sex and refund any shipping costs involved.

Confirming the Terms on 1/18:

Sexing.
While I strive to be 100% accurate on sexing thats not always the case. I will guarantee correct sexing for 30 days after you recieve it. If there is a sexing mistake that is brought to my attention within 30 days I will replace the missexed animal.

1/18:

All I need is the snake that the sex is questioned be sent back to me, then I send a replacement and refund the shipping charges to me and I will pay the return shipping charges to her.

In my opinion, this shouldn't have made it to the BOI, until the parties could have discussed a resolution, and the seller given a chance to rectify the situation. Expecting another brand new male for FREE is a strecth. If you are not happy with the snake, you send it back for a replacement, or work out a discount/deal on the snake you want, or get a partial refund so you can by the snake you want.

So everyone doesn't jump on my case because of my location (I do live in the same state as Ed), he does however, live on the opposite side of it. I want to make it clear that I was not coerced to respond on this thread, nor have I spoke to Ed in a very very long time. I have done business with Ed in the past (July 2007). I had a very positive experience - I bought a Ball Python from him in complete health, no intestinal parasites, sexed correctly, doing well now and eating fanastic as always, filled out papers in regards to New Jersey laws/permits on reptiles, and he even put up with me on a payment mistake on MY part.

This is just my only experience with Ed, and I cannot speak for any other bad experiences with him for anyone else. I do, however, think it is a shame that another "Bad Guy" thread is up about him - and this one I do not feel is deserved.

I do hope the OP gets compensated for the snake she wanted, and all parties benefit and are happy. Good luck!!