Ed Clark,don't buy frogs from him!

[Dr Owens]

Are you that emotionally unstable that you threaten people over words spoken on a forum?

Are you really so stupid that you would think that it was ok to say something like that to Rick?

 

[Cat_72]

Are you really so stupid that you would think that it was ok to say something like that to Rick?

Yeah, and then laugh thinking it's funny.

Very observant Beth, thats exactly what I did.

See how easy it was to chuck a piece of bait out there, and all the fishes went after it!

Gooseshit is too good for Ed.

 

[MiIguanaLvr]

Very observant Beth, thats exactly what I did.

See how easy it was to chuck a piece of bait out there, and all the fishes went after it!

But, even though some people are stating you are in the right in this issue with the frog, almost everyone still thinks you are a scumbag. Does that not bother you at all? My guess would be no, it doesn't, considering the way you keep behaving. In fact, you seem quite proud of yourself for it.
Sad, just very sad.

 

[jayefbe]

Well I went back to fatfrogs to try and get a screen shot showing you why I call ED a scum bad but it was deleted because of all of the foul language that was used. Since it was deleted I will give you the short story he called me a bitc*, a slut and some other things for only being objective. In no way did I provoke the name calling. There is plenty of evidence showing that the frog was sick before it was sent to Kelly. There were two experts that said the frog died of hepatitis. If you missed that, go back and read some more. It is not possible for the frog to develope and die from it in a 24 hour period. Kelly never said nor did I that ED KNOWINGLY sent sick frogs. This goes back to your not thoroughly reading the thread again. Now as for the frogs that were sent to the museum that just means that they probably weren't housed with kelly's frog and therefor were not exposed to the same things as the other frogs. You forgot to mention that ED should also stop the needless name calling in the post that I was quoting.

So this was all just an elaborate conspiracy for Ed to screw over K412?

Who said that the frog died of hepatitis? I thought it was bacterial septicemia, oh wait, I thought it was chytrid. Wait that came back negative? I guess it had hepatitis now. What caused acute hepatitis in the frog? Is it even contagious? Could stress of shipping have caused it?

 

[RJK890]

Quote PhsycoFroglady:
nor did I make that comment to you. I made it to the person who said the only the frogs they've ever had were the ones they use for bait when fishing.

I have just as much of a right to post my opinion of whether a frog "appears" to be healthy or unhealthy as anybody else. I don't need to be a DVM in order to have an opinion, and made it known that it was not based on experience keeping these animals. From what the more experienced keepers have said so far, my opinion was correct. The "issues" that were pointed out on that animal were explained by Seamus, and appear to be on the latest pics of the frog that the OP is giving to Kelly.
Now as far as hepatitis, fungus, or septic...whatever, I did not see any of that in the pics, did you? I never commented on those things either.
If the frog has any of those issues then Ed should have his collection tested, and treated if necessary.

Was this frog sold with a 24 hour health guarantee? It has been mentioned that most sellers do not even give a live arrival guarantee on amphibians.
Ed went above and beyond his TOS by sending a replacement animal for a "DOA" that was not signed for. I understand that it may have been received but the shipping company has it "left on doorstep." That violates the "live arrival guarantee" in most sellers TOS. Ed still honored the guarantee and sent a replacement animal at no cost to his customer. The replacement animal arrived alive and "appeared" healthy. The customer(Kelly) repeatedly stressed the animal out, and sent Ed a PM asking if these frogs can fall... The frog was dead the next day and Kelly sent Ed an email apologizing for killing the frog. Later she blames Ed for the death of the animal, post's this bad guy thread and does not want another animal from Ed.

It would have been enough asking Ed for another replacement animal, maybe even too much. Asking for a cash refund, and vet expenses is just ridiculous...IMO, if that's alright with crazyfrog .

 

[jayefbe]

And I'm not trying to defend Ed in any way. His posts on this site are deplorable, and I wouldn't deal with him based on his personality alone, but to stoop to his level is not going to back up your point in any way.

 

[jayefbe]

Just one final note, the hepatitis mentioned in the necropsy is not referring to the hepatitis virus we're more familiar with. It is referring to an inflammation of the liver, which there could be a number of causes.

 

[RJK890]

Quote PhyscoFrog:
Adjective:
irresponsible;

Lacking a sense of responsibility; incapable of or not chargeable with responsibility; unable to respond to obligation.
Not responsible; not subject to responsibility; not to be held accountable, or called into question.

That is correct. Ed is not responsible, not chargeable with or subject to responsibility, and not to be held accountable for or to be called into question for the death of the frog, or a refund.

Quote PhyscoFrog:
Well I went back to fatfrogs to try and get a screen shot showing you why I call ED a scum bad but it was deleted because of all of the foul language that was used. Since it was deleted I will give you the short story he called me a , and some other things for only being objective. QUOTE] You, Objective .

 

[LakesideBoas]

Ummmm.....Lets see!!!I didn't say you don't own frogs maggie nor did I make that comment to you. I made it to the person who said the only the frogs they've ever had were the ones they use for bait when fishing. The whole story I'm speaking of is that she did do her research on the husbandry. And she said that over and over again. She shouldn't have to prove it, she said it that's enough. Just like E.D.s word is enough for people.

I didn't know you were referring to anyone else as I was the person you quoted in your post. That is why I put the "FWIW" (for what it's worth) at the front of my statement to the fact I do own frogs. They still don't look sick.

Ed's word has no meaning at all for me. He has descended to a whole new level of putrid with his comments to Richard.

Way to go, Ed.

 

[crazyfroglady]

Just one final note, the hepatitis mentioned in the necropsy is not referring to the hepatitis virus we're more familiar with. It is referring to an inflammation of the liver, which there could be a number of causes.

Uhm... I guess you were trying to tell me this? That's already been said by me.

I'm no expert either but here's an article I found. I don't think they are speaking of Hepatitis the virus, just hepatitis (inflamation of the liver). This was the only thing I found about it. It is speaking of Chlamydia and Chytrid causing hepatitis in clawed frogs.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol6no2/ascii/reed.txt

 

[jayefbe]

ok, so now that it's come back negative for chytrid and apparently there's been no mention of chlamydia, how is this Ed's fault? How is there any proof that the frog was sick beforehand, or that hepatitis was even the cause of death for the frog?

 

[crazyfroglady]

That is correct. Ed is not responsible, not chargeable with or subject to responsibility, and not to be held accountable for or to be called into question for the death of the frog, or a refund.

Quote PhyscoFrog:
Well I went back to fatfrogs to try and get a screen shot showing you why I call ED a scum bad but it was deleted because of all of the foul language that was used. Since it was deleted I will give you the short story he called me a , and some other things for only being objective. QUOTE] You, Objective .

Keep trying! I'm convinced you will come up with a good point eventually

 

[crazyfroglady]

So this was all just an elaborate conspiracy for Ed to screw over K412?

Who said that the frog died of hepatitis? I thought it was bacterial septicemia, oh wait, I thought it was chytrid. Wait that came back negative? I guess it had hepatitis now. What caused acute hepatitis in the frog? Is it even contagious? Could stress of shipping have caused it?

Here you go! It's somewhere on this forum but I didn't feel like sorting through all of the posts to find it seeing as I've already read it.


Jay Willis


Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 2608
Location: The Mouse House!
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I said I was going to stay out of this, but sence it's turning into a pissing contest, I went ahead and did a little snooping in the necorpsy!

I took a copy of the report that K412 posted and sent it to My contact at the zoo to see what He thought. We he's more of a reptile guy, so He send it to "Jen" which happens to be the top herpetologist in the country right now.

Heres what the returned e-mail said!

Hey Jay, Jen looked the results over and came up with hepatitis as the main problem; many of the other comments indicate secondary problems that are common to hepatitis.

This is easy to pass on to the rest of your collection and should be treated as highly contagious.

Hope it had been quarantined or the entire collection is susceptible, once they have it not much you can do, it can be detected with x-rays but is expensive.

Good luck



Nick Clark, Senior Reptile Keeper

Central Florida Zoo

P.O. Box 470409

Lake Monroe, Fl. 32747

So what it comes down to is Someone has got alot of work ahead of them.

If it came from PetSmart, they would have pulled all their frogs off the shelf by now, but if it's Ed's, God help anyone who got a frog from him sence then.

 

[TrulyRare]

If the frog was sick, i would def, try and get a refund, "live arrival or not" he can't by pass that procedure you had done.

 

[jayefbe]

ugh....what? Hepatitis is a physical characteristic in this case. There's no mention of a virus (or anything else for that matter) causing the hepatitis, so how can it be said that it's contagious! That's like saying a black eye is contagious. In fact, extreme heat causes acute hepatitis in dogs and cats. Is that contagious?

Plus, the original necropsy says nothing about hepatitis as the cause of death.

 

[crazyfroglady]

ok, so now that it's come back negative for chytrid and apparently there's been no mention of chlamydia, how is this Ed's fault? How is there any proof that the frog was sick beforehand, or that hepatitis was even the cause of death for the frog?

I don't know how many times this needs to be said but I will say it again. The whole point of this thread is to warn people that Ed sells (be it maybe not knowingly) sick animals and refuses to acknowledge. Since he is refusing to acknowledge it is safe to assume that he is not treating. The tests were not negative nor have they came back. The original breeder of the frogs (not ed) is sending her a new one from the same batch. She wants to drop the subject because she was continually attacked for posting this. So people are assuming because she is dropping the subject that the tests were negative.

 

[jayefbe]

K412 said she was going to post the results of the test. Then she said that she was going to post the results since it doesn't matter to anyone...which only led me and everyone else on here to assume that the tests had come back negative. Hopefully she posts the results when the do arrive, positive or not.

I agree that if Ed was or is selling sick frogs everyone should know about it, and his practices should be stopped until he can safely say that all of his frogs are completely healthy. But at this point, there's no evidence to say that his frogs aren't 100% healthy.

 

[LakesideBoas]

I think this horse is dead, Jamie. Ed is going to stick to his TOS to the letter, which is his right. Just because you (not you personally) don't agree with it, it is his TOS, which the buyer agreed to upon entering into a transaction with Ed.

Disclaimer: That doesn't mean I agree (or disagree) with Ed's TOS (I've never read them).

It may be felt he has a moral obligation to replace Kelly's frog, unfortunately moral obligations are not binding are are subject to the character of the person morally obligated.

Ed's already shown what outstanding character he has.

Kelly is not going to get a refund (if she does I'd fall over in a dead faint) and anybody reading this can tell just what they are dealing with if they decide to buy anything from Ed.

 

[RJK890]

Quote Rick:
he's a no good liar, and a good definition of the word scumbag,... Prove you ain't the rotten mother that I say you are.

Those are some lousy things to say about somebody Rick. If you are going to talk smack about people, whoever they are, you and your friends shouldn't cry foul when they retaliate.
(I am sorry for what you went through.)

Ed, I understand that it must be frustrating for you to be getting attacked like that in a thread where you are not in the wrong. Still, you should keep the gloves up. The tragedy that happened to Rick does not fit into this thread, or make him a guy that does not have his affairs in order. What he said was uncalled for, and Your response was also out of line.

Quote Shrap:
There are lines that people with any kind of class and compassion dont cross.

When someone is attacking you that line gets really thin. I mean Rick wasn't being very classy and compassionate towards Ed. Why should Ed care about crossing those lines in the sand after Rick is already on his side of the line slapping him in the face?
(I do see what was wrong with his response.)

 

[crazyfroglady]

ugh....what? Hepatitis is a physical characteristic in this case. There's no mention of a virus (or anything else for that matter) causing the hepatitis, so how can it be said that it's contagious! That's like saying a black eye is contagious. In fact, extreme heat causes acute hepatitis in dogs and cats. Is that contagious?

Plus, the original necropsy says nothing about hepatitis as the cause of death.

There's no mention of a virus or anything else for that matter because the testing for that is still being performed. The inflamed liver is what killed the frog. As for what caused the inflamed liver that's still to be determined. The fact still remains that the frog was sick it didn't keel over for no reason.