Info ED CLARK FLIPPING MY DRAGONS

[redlizard5]

Thats HIM ED CLARK

 

[fearaffect]

Buying animals at wholesale pretty much means your gonna resale. Its done all the time.
If your against the "flippers" then you should also be directing your anger at the ones who sale wholesale/supply wholesale lists to people....afterall, they're after a quick buck to.....arent they?
I see no problem with wholesaling/resale. Not everyone has the space/time/patience to sell retail/market prices and wholesaling their animals is a fast way to generate income for other projects or to just pay the bills/make a living same with resaling the animals. If you think about it, the majority of pet shops are "flippers".

 

[Sushi Dragons]

Wholesale/Resale and Flipping are two opposite ends of the spectrum. I would buy from a reseller, I would not buy from a flipper.

Wholesale/Resale is a business practice done openly and honestly. For instance you could approach me about a clutch of dragons at wholesale. I would say yes or no based on a million different criteria. You would take the animals, keep them fed, cleaned, quarantined and happy until a buyer was found. You would tell the new owner that the dragons came from a breeder in NC and give my name if asked or if you chose to volunteer that information. The new owner now has a quality animal, you have money for your troubles and I have space in my facility for new projects.

A flipper is someone who buys animals at reduced prices whenever and wherever they can. They oftentimes will lie to the seller (ex. "I want this for my kid's birthday"), lie to the buyer (ex. "It looks like a normal, but it's a quadruple het. I bred it myself so I should know") and then disappear off the radar as soon as the animal is sold to the first person to pay up.

In this situation Ed Clark is a flipper. He misrepresented his intentions to the seller in order to acquire animals at a severely reduced rate only to immediately put them all up for sale (the seller was aware one or two might be sold, not ALL of them). Selling an animal at wholesale pricing does not mean that this was a "Wholesale/Resale" deal. I have sold animals at half their "going rate" because I was led to believe the animal was going to a good home. To see it appear for sale was quite disappointing since that was not the intention behind the discounted rate. That is the situation here as far as I understand it.

 

[Focal]

When did this transaction take place?

 

[Bill T]

Wholesale/Resale and Flipping are two opposite ends of the spectrum. I would buy from a reseller, I would not buy from a flipper.

Wholesale/Resale is a business practice done openly and honestly. For instance you could approach me about a clutch of dragons at wholesale. I would say yes or no based on a million different criteria. You would take the animals, keep them fed, cleaned, quarantined and happy until a buyer was found. You would tell the new owner that the dragons came from a breeder in NC and give my name if asked or if you chose to volunteer that information. The new owner now has a quality animal, you have money for your troubles and I have space in my facility for new projects.

A flipper is someone who buys animals at reduced prices whenever and wherever they can. They oftentimes will lie to the seller (ex. "I want this for my kid's birthday"), lie to the buyer (ex. "It looks like a normal, but it's a quadruple het. I bred it myself so I should know") and then disappear off the radar as soon as the animal is sold to the first person to pay up.

In this situation Ed Clark is a flipper. He misrepresented his intentions to the seller in order to acquire animals at a severely reduced rate only to immediately put them all up for sale (the seller was aware one or two might be sold, not ALL of them). Selling an animal at wholesale pricing does not mean that this was a "Wholesale/Resale" deal. I have sold animals at half their "going rate" because I was led to believe the animal was going to a good home. To see it appear for sale was quite disappointing since that was not the intention behind the discounted rate. That is the situation here as far as I understand it.

 

[ShadowAceD]

I don't suppose anyone has any proof that Ed said he wanted the animals just to breed and not to resell ...

 

[Focal]

Within a week he had posted 4 of the 5 I sold him....

I was up front with him telling him I was buying these 5 females to resell and keep a couple for future breeding stock which I did.

So who's lying here? He says you are selling all but one and you said you are keeping a couple... which would be more than one.

 

[Sushi Dragons]

Josh to Ed:

I was just curious as to why I sold these dragons to you at a wholesale price. Believing you planned on breeding them I understand that you wanted to recoup some of your money but, you posted all of them except the orange leather double het.

Ed's reply:

Josh I told you I was going to sell some and keep some and that is exactly what I did. I was up front with you all the way, you were selling your entire collection,I called you and I made a deal to buy some of your dragons which I did.

Ed admits to planning to "keep some" yet there is only one not yet up for sale. This leads me to believe that Josh was indeed misled.

 

[Focal]

^ Yup. Someone's story has a little relish and that leads me to believe false intentions were presented during the transaction. Regardless of what's right or wrong, or what someone does with the animals after purchasing them, if you lead someone on, that's just wrong.

 

[illbeyoursoldier]

I do not necessarily agree. From below, as far as you know, Mr. Clark has four of them for sale, hoping two will strike peoples interest and sell. Maybe he has a goal of a certain amount of money he wants back, not necessarily a goal of selling them all. Note, quote below:

Josh I told you I was going to sell some and keep some and that is exactly what I did. just because you see something for sale does not mean it will sell.

Either way, they are his animals now to do with what he wants, and he shouldn't have to defend himself. IMO, I think the OP just has his panties up in a bunch because someone else is gonna sell them for more than he could.

There are a lot of people in the business, not just Ed Clark, that have to buy animals to resell them to keep their businesses together. Some people don't have second jobs, and do this solely for a living, and their breeding stock alone can't fund their profit. Most of the "bigger guys" do things this way as well (buy lower than market price to sell at market price and make a profit) and you are naive if you don't think so. I don't think it makes them a bad person, it doesn't mean they don't care about the animals well-being. It's a business decision. It doesn't make you heartless. Of course, it's a decision that is better for you, not necessarily for the animals, and there will always be a level of scrutiny in that, but its what you do with the animal in your care when you have them that matters, IMO.

Chelsea Lynn Gardiner

 

[illbeyoursoldier]

I do not necessarily agree. From below, as far as you know, Mr. Clark has four of them for sale, hoping two will strike peoples interest and sell. Maybe he has a goal of a certain amount of money he wants back, not necessarily a goal of selling them all. Note, quote below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Clark
Josh I told you I was going to sell some and keep some and that is exactly what I did. just because you see something for sale does not mean it will sell.

Either way, they are his animals now to do with what he wants, and he shouldn't have to defend himself. IMO, I think the OP just has his panties up in a bunch because someone else is gonna sell them for more than he could.

There are a lot of people in the business, not just Ed Clark, that have to buy animals to resell them to keep their businesses together. Some people don't have second jobs, and do this solely for a living, and their breeding stock alone can't fund their profit. Most of the "bigger guys" do things this way as well (buy lower than market price to sell at market price and make a profit) and you are naive if you don't think so. I don't think it makes them a bad person, it doesn't mean they don't care about the animals well-being. It's a business decision. It doesn't make you heartless. Of course, it's a decision that is better for you, not necessarily for the animals, and there will always be a level of scrutiny in that, but its what you do with the animal in your care when you have them that matters, IMO.

Chelsea Lynn Gardiner

 

[illbeyoursoldier]

I'm sorry, I just realized I double posted. I didn't mean to do that. I'm sorry.

Chelsea Lynn Gardiner

 

[Clay Davenport]

I'm one of the last people you will find defending Ed. I only say that to put what else I have to say in perspective.
First of all as has been stated more than once, he purchased the animals and they are his to do with as he wishes. I dislike flipping myself, but that's a personal opinion which I don't go around preaching about. Like it or not flipping is a part of this business and if you don't want your animals flipped either quit selling or be very selective about who you sell to.

He has 4 of the dragons for sale. Perhaps he intends to sell all four, but just as likely he may intend on keeping two but has little preference between them and has decided to let the market decide, once two sells he keeps the other two.
I might be interested in a trio of some species and buy 6 of them to get a better deal. If they're all equal in my eyes I'd put all six up for sale and keep the last three. But according to many, I'd be a nasty flipper.

The biggest thing about these sort of threads that gets me is the "evil flipper" mentality that has become so pervasive the last few years, and the selective application of the label. It's apparently OK for some to do it but not others. I've sold animals to several of the well known dealers in the hobby and seen them in the classifieds two days later. That's flipping by the definition of many, but that's ok. I've sold snakes to pet stores directly and seen them put on display with a price before I left the store, and that's considered normal business. But if someone unknown buys an animal and tries to sell it a week or two later he's labeled an evil flipper and spoken of with disdain on all the forums. It's OK for the local pet store to sell everything they get in immediately with no quarantine or anything else, but if I try that I'm a bad guy to be avoided.

Once you accept money for an animal you have completed a business transaction and no longer have any say at all in the fate of that animal. If that doesn't suit you then you need to quit selling animals.

 

[Focal]

I'm one of the last people you will find defending Ed. I only say that to put what else I have to say in perspective.
First of all as has been stated more than once, he purchased the animals and they are his to do with as he wishes. I dislike flipping myself, but that's a personal opinion which I don't go around preaching about. Like it or not flipping is a part of this business and if you don't want your animals flipped either quit selling or be very selective about who you sell to.

He has 4 of the dragons for sale. Perhaps he intends to sell all four, but just as likely he may intend on keeping two but has little preference between them and has decided to let the market decide, once two sells he keeps the other two.
I might be interested in a trio of some species and buy 6 of them to get a better deal. If they're all equal in my eyes I'd put all six up for sale and keep the last three. But according to many, I'd be a nasty flipper.

The biggest thing about these sort of threads that gets me is the "evil flipper" mentality that has become so pervasive the last few years, and the selective application of the label. It's apparently OK for some to do it but not others. I've sold animals to several of the well known dealers in the hobby and seen them in the classifieds two days later. That's flipping by the definition of many, but that's ok. I've sold snakes to pet stores directly and seen them put on display with a price before I left the store, and that's considered normal business. But if someone unknown buys an animal and tries to sell it a week or two later he's labeled an evil flipper and spoken of with disdain on all the forums. It's OK for the local pet store to sell everything they get in immediately with no quarantine or anything else, but if I try that I'm a bad guy to be avoided.

Once you accept money for an animal you have completed a business transaction and no longer have any say at all in the fate of that animal. If that doesn't suit you then you need to quit selling animals.

but I think the "evil" part of flipping comes from those that don't QT, resell quick, and screws the buyer when the animal is sick/dead. Reminds me of someone I have read about in the BOI before.

 

[illbeyoursoldier]

Well said.

Chelsea Lynn Gardiner

 

[EA7770]

I'm not here to defend Mr. Clark. I've never done business with him, nor do I know him personally. But, when did Capitalism become a bad thing? Our country is based on it. The truth of the matter is, when you sell an animal, it becomes a product. And once you sell that product, it belongs to the buyer to do whatever they choose to do with it. Period! Unless you have a specific contract stating otherwise (some dog breeders for instance will sell animals with specific contracts stating what can or cannot be done with the dog), it's theirs to do with as they please. You as a seller can certainly decide who you do business with. But once you accept money for that sale, you no longer have any say in what happens to that animal.

 

[BurkeBrosExotics]

All I can say is I met h around havre de grace Maryland which was two hrs out of my way. I gave him an extremely good deal with the understanding he was going to breed them... He did say he may sell 1 maybe 2 to recoup his losses. But for him to turn around and have made posts before I even got home from meeting him. That to me is intentional and he saw all dragons in person it's not like Mailed them and he said o these don't look as good as I thought I will sell them. HE GOT A DEAL BECAUSE I THOUGHT HE WAS BREEDING THEM. I didn't have to sell to him I had probably 15 others interested. I just figured since he was a "breeder" I would give him the discount... If I had known all he wanted was my orange leather dbl het out of them all I would have just sold them individually. The fact that my prices were already low and for him to sell them for double to triple of my original asking price (not what I sold them to him for) I told myself that I wasn't going to respond to this post.... I just posted so others would know... I really don't care about everyones opinion. Most of the trans action was verbal but I will post all emails and texts later I'm on vacation so it won't be till I'm back. I just checked the classifies yesterday and saw he had posted another so I had to bring it up... And there are people already taking sides... It doesnt matter he knows he's in the wrong also I would have had no problem if he had posted them a couple months down the road(with a reasonable markup) but to list all but one within two weeks of purchasing them is wrong, especially since he "planned" on breeding them.

 

[ShadowAceD]

All I can say is I met h around havre de grace Maryland which was two hrs out of my way. I gave him an extremely good deal with the understanding he was going to breed them... He did say he may sell 1 maybe 2 to recoup his losses. But for him to turn around and have made posts before I even got home from meeting him. That to me is intentional and he saw all dragons in person it's not like Mailed them and he said o these don't look as good as I thought I will sell them. HE GOT A DEAL BECAUSE I THOUGHT HE WAS BREEDING THEM. I didn't have to sell to him I had probably 15 others interested. I just figured since he was a "breeder" I would give him the discount... If I had known all he wanted was my orange leather dbl het out of them all I would have just sold them individually. The fact that my prices were already low and for him to sell them for double to triple of my original asking price (not what I sold them to him for) I told myself that I wasn't going to respond to this post.... I just posted so others would know... I really don't care about everyones opinion. Most of the trans action was verbal but I will post all emails and texts later I'm on vacation so it won't be till I'm back. I just checked the classifies yesterday and saw he had posted another so I had to bring it up... And there are people already taking sides... It doesnt matter he knows he's in the wrong also I would have had no problem if he had posted them a couple months down the road(with a reasonable markup) but to list all but one within two weeks of purchasing them is wrong, especially since he "planned" on breeding them.

No one is really taking sides, per say. The fan base for Ed Clark here is ... slim, if not non-existent. But, the fact of the matter is ... he offered a story and it was your choice to take it and give him the discount. He did not force you to do this anymore than he forced you to drive two hours out of your way to bring him the animals.

I know it sucks, but that is how it is in sales. People buy and resell animals all the time, it is the risk that is taken in selling animals to people. You never know, for certain, what that person is going to do with that animal. All you have is whatever they told you. Ed did admit to selling some of the animals, if that changed to most, well, that is what he is entitled to do when he paid for the animals. Sure, he took advantage of finding a way to pay under retail, but again, that is all on you.

As much as I hate to admit it ... Ed did not really do anything wrong this time.

 

[Bill T]

I don't think it was posted to be a badguy thread but more about his experience with Ed and how he felt like he was deceived.

 

[illbeyoursoldier]

Within a week he had posted 4 of the 5 I sold him...

But for him to turn around and have made posts before I even got home from meeting him.

but to list all but one within two weeks of purchasing them is wrong, especially since he "planned" on breeding them.

Not sure which one is the truth, and no one is certain if Ed Clarke really gave you a number on the animals he intended to sell or just simply said "some." It still sounds like you are just angry because he is making more money off of your animals than you could. He took advantage of a good situation. It sucks for you, but...

Chelsea Lynn Gardiner