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Educate Me About Flippers

TERRor

TERRor

Knockout Exotics
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I have noticed a definite negative connotation being attached to people who buy reptiles, maybe at a bargain basement price, and then turn around and sell them for more than they paid.

While I have never "flipped" reptiles, however, I do so quite frequently with Harley's and even tattoo equipment. Lot's of people do the same thing with different commodities.

I'm just curious about the negativism displayed towards them. Educate me. :thumbsup:
 
From my perspective, I don't care if somebody is buying & selling...as long as they aren't passing things off as animals they produced.
 
I have a problem with it, because In my opinion (based on posts that I have read on forums) they usually don't even take time to know the animal or fix it up. It's in and out. So if it has ticks, mites, even an R.I. that's usually too bad. Their goal is to make their money back asap and everything else is secondary.
 
There is nothing wrong with someone buying entire clutches or groups of CH animals and reselling them as long as they are upfront about the animals and stand behind them.
The negativity comes from the fact that some try to pass off the animals as being produced by them, try to sell CH as CB animals, and in some cases, don't bother to even check the health or make sure the animals are feeding before reselling them. Some don't even let the animals take break before re-shipping them. Stressing them too much (multiple shippings, housing large groups together, etc.) can negatively affect the animal. This results in buyers getting sick, mite infested and non-feeding animals at times.
 
SPJ said:
There is nothing wrong with someone buying entire clutches or groups of CH animals and reselling them as long as they are upfront about the animals and stand behind them.
The negativity comes from the fact that some try to pass off the animals as being produced by them, try to sell CH as CB animals, and in some cases, don't bother to even check the health or make sure the animals are feeding before reselling them. Some don't even let the animals take break before re-shipping them. Stressing them too much (multiple shippings, housing large groups together, etc.) can negatively affect the animal. This results in buyers getting sick, mite infested and non-feeding animals at times.
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That is a great post my friend.

I have always said. their are bad brokers(flipper) and there are bad breeders.

I breed and broker animals. But I am always upront with people about animals I have produced and have bought and I only sell animals I personally will back.

Steve great post brother
 
As I have said many times, I dont have a real problem with Flippers. At least not the ones that represent themselves and the animals honestly. I just wont buy from them myself.

I personally would rather support the respected breeder who has put the sweat, blood and tears into their projects. It is my way of showing respect and appreciation for the hard work I know they have put into their collections.

Does anything feel better than selling one of your babies after 2 or 3 years (or more) working on a project? And it aint the money that makes you feel good, it is a sense of accomplishment for the hard work and passion you have put into those babies. A sense of satisfaction and pride that someone else found your hard work worthy as well.

You cant tell me a pure flipper feels any of that....
 
i dont have a problem with some of them either.

There is a need for them, whether some people want to admit it or not.

So long as the animal being sold is being represented as it is... i have no qualms with it. If its something i want, so long as they answer all my questions truthfully * and i do ask LOTS of questions....* Im fine with it. Honesty is the key when dealing with flippers.

The only thing i DO dislike is the selling of CH babies, or wild caught, calling them morphs.... but thats my only problem really.
 
One thing I'm surprised hasn't come up: an ethical 'flipper' is doing a service for the breeders they acquire herps from, and charging for that service via marked up price. If you sell your offspring to a 'flipper' (especially a local one), you no longer have to worry about promotion/advertising, housing and feeding dozens of extra animals, haggling and transfering funds, and shipping the animals, which leaves you free to care for your other animals and pursue other projects.

Mokele
 
Also I just would like to point out.

Some would be surzed about how many people have bought and resold.

It is not being a flipper that is bad or a breeder that makes you good. It is you that does. You can be a great broker and you an be a bad broker. Just as you can be a great breeder as you can be a bad breeder. If the person is bad it does not matter what he or she does (breed/broker)

I never got the blanket statement. Becuase if you look at many many many of the rip offs in the BOI it is from a "breeder" wen are the names going to stop and just judge the person for WHO THEY ARE?

As said before I broker and breed I should be producing over 600 babies this coming season..........

When I am at shows the purest people are the kids. But we are human we need to label a lot of things.
 
These are some really well thought out answers here.

I can definitely understand the feelings towards someone who acquires a sick, bargain basement, or even wild caught animal then spends absolutely no time/money in making sure the animal is fit to be re-sold.
 
TERRor said:
These are some really well thought out answers here.

I can definitely understand the feelings towards someone who acquires a sick, bargain basement, or even wild caught animal then spends absolutely no time/money in making sure the animal is fit to be re-sold.
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I do not think of them people as "flipperes" "Brokers" i think of them as Fly by night I hope to get some money quick jerks................................
 
I think the main problem I have trusting flippers is quarantine procedures. If they are handling any amount of animals I find it hard to believe they have good quarantine practices. How do you handle that number of animals and keep everything separate? You would have to have a rather large facility and I don't see that in most cases. :shrug01:
 
Bill & Amy said:
I think the main problem I have trusting flippers is quarantine procedures. If they are handling any amount of animals I find it hard to believe they have good quarantine practices. How do you handle that number of animals and keep everything separate? You would have to have a rather large facility and I don't see that in most cases. :shrug01:
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here is one for you. how long do you Q your new animals? How about where. unless they are in another building it really is not Qing as things like IBD can be transferred ery easy and Boas can carry it without ever showing it.

But I recommend that everything purchased for a personal collection should be Q.

And going to shows period them animals should be kept seperate from everything else. You know. Once an animal hit a show. It should be then reQed if you will.

I know what you are saying but then I know almost no one Qs the right way. 90 days is not even close to the time needed.
 
Gary O said:
unless they are in another building it really is not Qing
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That is just bad information.

90 days of proper quarantine in a separate room really IS quarantining. And is sufficient for 99.9% of common issues. You do not need a separate facility to properly quarantine. To say it is not really quarantining unless you have another building is just plain wrong Gary. It is almost impossible for any virus or disease to contaminate a separate room.

Allow me to quote a good friend of mine, Dr. Owens, to save me a lot of typing...

When I said that snakes don't have a "true cough reflex," I was comparing them to humans who do have a very distinct cough reflex. Humans are able to produce high velocity respiratory droplets by coughing. In fact, they can expel respiratory droplets in excess of 60 mph. However, these respiratory droplets (depending on their size) don't travel all that far once being expelled. The odds of them traveling through a ventilation system (through the air return system, then traveling through the central system, and then back out through the air delivery system) and into another room, is between slim and none. Even IF a respiratory droplet were to make it to another part of the house, then the odds of it being in sufficient quantity to infect another individual, is even more remote.

By comparison, snakes can forcefully expel air. However, they do so at a MUCH lower velocity than a human can. Primarily, because they do not increase intrathoracic pressure behind a closed glottis prior to expulsion, rather they force air through an open glottis. This lower velocity expulsion will result in much larger respiratory particles being expelled...which means that they can hardly travel very far at all. Add to this the fact that the respiratory droplet has to escape the cage (which is no small feat in and of itself) before it can travel through the room, into the vent, through the return air system, through the central distribution system, through the return air system, into another room... Well, I think that you can see my point.
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If you really want to educate yourself on the matter start reading this thread here at post 557: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99539&highlight=quarantine&page=14

If you just read what Doc Owens and myself added to that thread you will get a good head start. Then if you wish to take it a step further go get a couple of books on the spread of infectious diseases and viris.

99.999999999 of all separate room contaminations happen because someone took the contaminated material in that room with them via their hands/body, clothes, feeders, equipment, etc. Not through the air.
 
shrap said:
That is just bad information.

90 days of proper quarantine in a separate room really IS quarantining. And is sufficient for 99.9% of common issues. You do not need a separate facility to properly quarantine. To say it is not really quarantining unless you have another building is just plain wrong Gary. It is almost impossible for any virus or disease to contaminate a separate room.

Allow me to quote a good friend of mine, Dr. Owens, to save me a lot of typing...



If you really want to educate yourself on the matter start reading this thread here at post 557: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99539&highlight=quarantine&page=14

If you just read what Doc Owens and myself added to that thread you will get a good head start. Then if you wish to take it a step further go get a couple of books on the spread of infectious diseases and viris.

99.999999999 of all separate room contaminations happen because someone took the contaminated material in that room with them via their hands/body, clothes, feeders, equipment, etc. Not through the air.
Click to expand...


99.999999999 of all separate room contaminations happen because someone took the contaminated material in that room with them via their hands/body, clothes, feeders, equipment, etc. Not through the air

This part right above is why a seperate building should be sued IMO. How many of people take showers to go from room to room?

My point was that there is flaws in everyones Qing.

Take breeders that take animals to shows? Do they reQ them before they take them to a new show?
 
Let me add this........ How many breeders keep the babies they take to shows in the same room as their breeders.................

I Q in a seperate room. My breeders are in a different room then my sellable animals.

My venomous is all in a different room...

there are some nasty nasty things out there. I mean it could be as simple as using a spray bottle in one room then another.
 
Gary O said:
This part right above is why a seperate building should be sued IMO. How many of people take showers to go from room to room?
Click to expand...

Simply taking care of your quarantined animals last takes care of that problem.

Gary O said:
My point was that there is flaws in everyones Qing.
Click to expand...

I know plenty of folks who quarantine without flaw. It aint brain surgery. Just too many people want to come up with BS excuses for not properly quarantining.

Gary O said:
there are some nasty nasty things out there. I mean it could be as simple as using a spray bottle in one room then another.
Click to expand...

That is why I have 2 sets of everything. One for the "Q" room and one for the clean room. I have BIG GIANT RED Q's on all my Quarantine room tools. Be it tubs, scales, misting bottles, water bowls, racks, substrate, thermostats, temp guns, etc, etc. And those tools NEVER leave the quarantine room.
 
Great... Now I gotta add on another room

Someone wanna buy my snakes so I will have the $$$$$$$$

Thansk for your support :)

Actually.... Im glad ya'll are posting... its good food for thought.
 
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