Effective Regulation

[Dennis Hultman]

i am all for the 2nd amendment but honestly why do people need automatic rifles and heavy weapons please answer that for me?

That's one of the problems with all the people coming forward and stating they are all for the second amendment but they haven't a clue what they are talking about.

Repeated by the mainstream media over and over again as fact and they grab the talking points and go with it.

The populace as a whole isn't running around with automatic weapons.
Try semi-automatic.

You need to get your class 3 and not everybody and their uncle tom is going to do it.

In closing there does need to be harder gun laws in the united states so these types of tragidy are fewer and far between....

How much harder gun laws do you suggest and what?

They're good about convicted criminals and they are stripping away rights for mental problems. So what other precrime can they come up with without simply banning weapons from people who have done no wrong?

Tragedies are going to happen. If this pathetic soul wanted to kill children he could have waited till a bunch of kids were in the crosswalk and mowed them down with is car. Your not going to stop evil.

Sure you can limited the ways and restrict more and more freedom but you are never going to end it.

We're humans. A lot of us are great, caring and compassionate. Some of us are troubled, desperate, evil and ill.

Let us get this straight though. It isn't about semi-automatics, assault weapon (not defined). Every single talking hack on the news goes right to the outright banning of most guns and how great it would be. That is the goal, period. That's what they want.

That fricken Peirce Morgan on CNN is full of crap. He keeps talking about banning assault weapons (again, define) then goes on to talk how great it is they banned all guns in most of Europe and particularly the UK. That's the goal and that is what these elitist want.

They keep talking about how the murder rate is down by gun. They don't talk about how the violent crime rate which includes murder by all means is way up. Now they are talking about banning most knifes across the pond.

There are several other points the media political agenda driven hacks don't tell you either.

When most of the UK and Europe had their rights to most weapons and we were all on the same equal footing, We were still more violent and ranked even worse then now many years. We are a more violent society and we have always been. Check the states fifty years ago, a hundred. We have always had a more violent society. Gun laws or not.

Sure gun murders are down In the UK. They also have more control on their society. From cctv on every corner in the city and every single word utterrd that is unpolitically correct can result in a fine, jail-time, etc..

Where people who kill defending themselves from being killed in their own homes are convicted of murder to a larger degree. Shorter sentences for criminals and more regulations than here. A society almost completely controlled in almost all of Europe.

It's not about the type of weapon, It's about weapons period.
Look at society at large. Look all around you. We promote violence everywhere. If we were on a equal footing with others that have banned most firearms we would still be ranked the same.

Horrible things are going to continue to happen regardless of banning guns. The only thing that you will insure is the stronger will win or those that still have them will on a individual or group level.

A individual will always lose to a group attack, a elderly person will always lose to a mugging, innocent people will always lose to a criminal with a gun bent on killing. The strong will win and the weak will always die. That's it period. No equalization.

Police are good after the fact but they don't magically appear at the scene before the death or crime.

Make no mistake the goal is to remove all guns. Heck they are talking about all handguns on the news earlier today. They propose to take the one thing that gave everyone a equal chance away.

People will still die if you take guns away. You can't save anyone but you can strip more and more freedom away.

The only way you can start making a dent is strict control of population at every moment. Sure, you become safer at the cost of everything that Americans consider a inalienable right.

You can chip away at gun rights all you want but there will come a time when those who want to protect everyone (control) will push to far. Were not Europe, Australia or any other place. What we consider a given freedom isn't the same.

That freedom of arms is rooted in our very creation as a nation. It will not be given up here at this time or the near future.

Sorry, the news stations really pissed me off the last few days. Mr. Morgan others really got under my skin.

That elitist punk needs to carry his butt back over the pond where he will be more comfortable. He is not a American Citizen. He sits there and tells us each week that we need to give up our rights and be more like Europe.

F' him! You know what happen when someone with a British Accent last demanded all arms from the American people.

Every freaking reporter not talking about the prescriptions the shooter was on or his state. It's all a secondary issue. BS

It's suppose to be about personal responsibility here in this country not some collective Borg hive.

I'm just ranting not even to the poster here. Sorry, END....

 

[ShadowAceD]

That's one of the problems with all the people coming forward and stating they are all for the second amendment but they haven't a clue what they are talking about.

Repeated by the mainstream media over and over again as fact and they grab the talking points and go with it.

The populace as a whole isn't running around with automatic weapons.
Try semi-automatic.

You need to get your class 3 and not everybody and their uncle tom is going to do it.


How much harder gun laws do you suggest and what?

They're good about convicted criminals and they are stripping away rights for mental problems. So what other precrime can they come up with without simply banning weapons from people who have done no wrong?

Tragedies are going to happen. If this pathetic soul wanted to kill children he could have waited till a bunch of kids were in the crosswalk and mowed them down with is car. Your not going to stop evil.

Sure you can limited the ways and restrict more and more freedom but you are never going to end it.

We're humans. A lot of us are great, caring and compassionate. Some of us are troubled, desperate, evil and ill.

Let's us get this straight though. It isn't about semi-automatics, assault weapon (not defined). Every single talking hack on the news goes right to the outright banning of most guns and how great it would be. That is the goal, period. That's what they want.

That fricken Peirce Morgan on CNN is full of crap. He keeps talking about banning assault weapons (again, define) then goes on to talk how great it is they banned all guns in most of Europe and particularly the UK. That's the goal and that is what these elitist want.

They keep talking about how the murder rate is down by gun. They don't talk about how the violent crime rate which includes murder by all means is way up. Now they are talking about banning most knifes across the pond.

There are several other points the media political agenda driven hacks don't tell you either.

When most of the UK and Europe had their rights to most weapons and we were all on the same equal footing, We were still more violent and ranked even worse then now many years. We are a more violent society and we have always been. Check the states fifty years ago, a hundred. We have always had a more violent society. Gun laws or not.

Sure gun murders are down In the UK. They also have more control on their society. From cctv on every corner in the city and every single word utterrd that is unpolitically correct can result in a fine, jail-time, etc..

Where people who kill defending themselves from being killed in their own homes are convicted of murder to a larger degree. Shorter sentences for criminals and more regulations than here. A society almost completely controlled in almost all of Europe.

It's not about the type of weapon, It's about weapons period.
Look at society at large. Look all around you. We promote violence everywhere. If we were on a equal footing with others that have banned most firearms we would still be ranked the same.

Horrible things are going to continue to happen regardless of banning guns. The only thing that you will insure is the stronger will win or those that still have them will on a individual or group level.

A individual will always lose to a group attack, a elderly person will always lose to a mugging, innocent people will always lose to a criminal with a gun bent on killing. The strong will win and the weak will always die. That's it period. No equalization.

Police are good after the fact but they don't magically appear at the scene before the death or crime.

Make no mistake the goal is to remove all guns. Heck they are talking about all handguns on the news earlier today. They propose to take the one thing that gave everyone a equal chance away.

People will still die if you take guns away. You can't save anyone but you can strip more and more freedom away.

The only way you can start making a dent is strict control of population at every moment. Sure, you become safer at the cost of everything that Americans consider a inalienable right.

You can chip away at gun rights all you want but there will come a time when those who want to protect everyone (control) will push to far. Were not Europe, Australia or any other place. What we consider a given freedom isn't the same.

That freedom of arms is rooted in our very creation as a nation. It will not be given up here at this time or the near future.

Sorry, the news stations really pissed me off the last few days. Mr. Morgan others really got under my skin.

That elitist punk needs to carry his butt back over the pond where he will be more comfortable. He is not a American Citizen. He sits their and tells us each week that we need to give up our rights and be more like Europe.

F' him! You know what happen when someone with a British Accent last demanded all arms from the American people.

Every freaking reporter not talking about the prescriptions the shooter was on or his state. It's all a secondary issue. BS

It's suppose to be about personal responsibility here in this country not some collective Borg hive.

I'm just ranting not even to the poster here. Sorry, END....

Exactly.

It really comes down to a simple fact:

Bans solve nothing (pot and dog fighting, anyone?).

The only thing bans will do is make it easier for those who are intent on breaking the law to do so with less resistance and become better equipped than those who choose to follow the laws.

Guns did not do this.

Movies did not do this.

Video games did not do this.

A person did this. A person who would have found a way to get those guns whether his mother had them or not. A person who was going to murder people one way or another. A ban would have done nothing.

When your government is selling guns to the "bad guys" to "track and recover them" at their "final" crime scenes, bans are a hypocrisy of a substantial level.

Ban semi-automatic and automatic rifles and the people that want them to cause harm will get them anyway, and more likely in an easier process than those that obtain them legally.

Ban gun clips with more than ten rounds and people who want them will modify current ones or find the ones they want. Or, they will just learn to reload faster.

Quit making excuses for why people are messed up and why people do messed up things. Start blaming the people and start forcing them to take responsibility. If that means taking responsibility with their life, so be it.

Something was not wired properly in this guy's head in regards to empathy and the sensation of "right" and "wrong", but he was still the one that murdered these children and educators. He had a choice. He made the wrong one.

The world is overpopulated. It will continue to become overpopulated. Desperation, ignored mental issues, expensive health care, failing economy, straining food resources and an array of other social issues will continue to cause violence, destruction and death. Sometimes that just results in someone eating a bullet and sometimes it results in them taking out innocents in some misguided attempt to not fall into a death of anonymity.

Bans will not stop that.

 

[WebSlave]

It's actually easier and faster for me to go purchase an automatic weapon than to purchase a car.

I'm sorry, but if you are referring to FULL automatic weapons here, I have my doubts about the truthfullness or accuracy of that statement. Unless you have close ties in organized crime or friends in very low places, I sincerely doubt you can get fully automatic weapons that easily.

But on the off chance you CAN, please let me know how much a full automatic Steyr AUG would cost.

 

[WebSlave]

Maybe if they made a law where someone uses your weapon to kill an innocent person you get same sentance.

With all due respect, that is quite an unreasonable and immensely foolish desire you have there. Do you really have any idea of the legal ramifications of such a law when such a precedent would be set?

Actually I think this sort of thing was approached in relation to people trying to make gun manufacturers responsible for the criminal use of their merchandise. As far as I can recall, each and every case that made it to the court room got thrown out. I believe there was even talk of passing federal law making gun manufactures immune to such frivolous lawsuits.

Yeah, I know some people are thinking that the NRA is behind the arm twisting to protect the gun manufacturers. Well, maybe they are. Possibly because the 4.3 MILLION members they have WANT them to do that. PEOPLE are members of the NRA because they DON'T want their rights trampled on. Imagine that. Some people seem to forget that the power of the NRA comes from it's enormous membership base. And those people are members for a reason.

Seriously, the entire idea of making ANYONE responsible for the misdeeds and actions of someone else that they have absolutely NO control over, no matter what they do, or what they use, is a pretty desperate attempt at just striking out at ANYONE using emotions in place of a brain.

So take your premise and substitute the word "weapon" with any number of things that could be misused or cause injury in any way, and see how foolish it sounds then.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

That's one of the problems with all the people coming forward and stating they are all for the second amendment but they haven't a clue what they are talking about.

Repeated by the mainstream media over and over again as fact and they grab the talking points and go with it.

The populace as a whole isn't running around with automatic weapons.
Try semi-automatic.

You need to get your class 3 and not everybody and their uncle tom is going to do it.

In closing there does need to be harder gun laws in the united states so these types of tragidy are fewer and far between....

How much harder gun laws do you suggest and what?

They're good about convicted criminals and they are stripping away rights for mental problems. So what other precrime can they come up with without simply banning weapons from people who have done no wrong?

Tragedies are going to happen. If this pathetic soul wanted to kill children he could have waited till a bunch of kids were in the crosswalk and mowed them down with is car. Your not going to stop evil.

Sure you can limited the ways and restrict more and more freedom but you are never going to end it.

We're humans. A lot of us are great, caring and compassionate. Some of us are troubled, desperate, evil and ill.

Let us get this straight though. It isn't about semi-automatics, assault weapon (not defined). Every single talking hack on the news goes right to the outright banning of most guns and how great it would be. That is the goal, period. That's what they want.

That fricken Peirce Morgan on CNN is full of crap. He keeps talking about banning assault weapons (again, define) then goes on to talk how great it is they banned all guns in most of Europe and particularly the UK. That's the goal and that is what these elitist want.

They keep talking about how the murder rate is down by gun. They don't talk about how the violent crime rate which includes murder by all means is way up. Now they are talking about banning most knifes across the pond.

There are several other points the media political agenda driven hacks don't tell you either.

When most of the UK and Europe had their rights to most weapons and we were all on the same equal footing, We were still more violent and ranked even worse then now many years. We are a more violent society and we have always been. Check the states fifty years ago, a hundred. We have always had a more violent society. Gun laws or not.

Sure gun murders are down In the UK. They also have more control on their society. From cctv on every corner in the city and every single word utterrd that is unpolitically correct can result in a fine, jail-time, etc..

Where people who kill defending themselves from being killed in their own homes are convicted of murder to a larger degree. Shorter sentences for criminals and more regulations than here. A society almost completely controlled in almost all of Europe.

It's not about the type of weapon, It's about weapons period.
Look at society at large. Look all around you. We promote violence everywhere. If we were on a equal footing with others that have banned most firearms we would still be ranked the same.

Horrible things are going to continue to happen regardless of banning guns. The only thing that you will insure is the stronger will win or those that still have them will on a individual or group level.

A individual will always lose to a group attack, a elderly person will always lose to a mugging, innocent people will always lose to a criminal with a gun bent on killing. The strong will win and the weak will always die. That's it period. No equalization.

Police are good after the fact but they don't magically appear at the scene before the death or crime.

Make no mistake the goal is to remove all guns. Heck they are talking about all handguns on the news earlier today. They propose to take the one thing that gave everyone a equal chance away.

People will still die if you take guns away. You can't save anyone but you can strip more and more freedom away.

The only way you can start making a dent is strict control of population at every moment. Sure, you become safer at the cost of everything that Americans consider a inalienable right.

You can chip away at gun rights all you want but there will come a time when those who want to protect everyone (control) will push to far. Were not Europe, Australia or any other place. What we consider a given freedom isn't the same.

That freedom of arms is rooted in our very creation as a nation. It will not be given up here at this time or the near future.

Sorry, the news stations really pissed me off the last few days. Mr. Morgan others really got under my skin.

That elitist punk needs to carry his butt back over the pond where he will be more comfortable. He is not a American Citizen. He sits there and tells us each week that we need to give up our rights and be more like Europe.

F' him! You know what happen when someone with a British Accent last demanded all arms from the American people.

Every freaking reporter not talking about the prescriptions the shooter was on or his state. It's all a secondary issue. BS

It's suppose to be about personal responsibility here in this country not some collective Borg hive.

I'm just ranting not even to the poster here. Sorry, END....

Yep, the British have become overly controlled, over regulated pansies watching ever word they state like their life depended on it and they know it.

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/w...lines-online-comments-20121219,0,619448.story

LONDON – People who post offensive messages on social networks such as Facebook and Twitter should face criminal charges only if their comments are harassing or threatening and not simply in bad taste, according to new legal guidelines in Britain that follow a spate of controversial prosecutions.

Free-speech advocates here have been alarmed in recent months by a number of incidents in which users of social media have been arrested and jailed for posting messages that others deemed repugnant. A 2003 law authorizes such harsh punishment for “indecent, obscene or menacing” communications sent through a public electronic network.

But the law predates the explosion of such new media as Twitter and Facebook, and some police officials say that having to investigate the increasing number of complaints about offensive online messages is distracting them from more serious work.

Keir Starmer, the chief prosecutor for England and Wales, said Wednesday that new guidelines from his office would raise the bar for criminal charges under the 2003 law by limiting most prosecutions to cases involving threatening and intimidating remarks targeted at specific individuals. That would help protect freedom of expression while still allowing authorities to crack down where warranted, he said.

Anyone want to have every thought, act, regulated like in Europe, then go there. I'll take the risks with a little more freedom.

 

[Metachrosis]

Bout $2,500 last one I saw(this year)
By no means are Class 3's "easy to get",mind need to stick with buying bridges

I'm sorry, but if you are referring to FULL automatic weapons here, I have my doubts about the truthfullness or accuracy of that statement. Unless you have close ties in organized crime or friends in very low places, I sincerely doubt you can get fully automatic weapons that easily.

But on the off chance you CAN, please let me know how much a full automatic Steyr AUG would cost.

 

[Metachrosis]

The US will wake up after the Blue Hats arrive,then all that warm fuzzy control BS will go out the window when they see DHS and all its many minions run out of town.
Good Posting D

Yep, the British have become overly controlled, over regulated pansies watching ever word they state like their life depended on it and they know it.
Anyone want to have every thought, act, regulated like in Europe, then go there. I'll take the risks with a little more freedom.

 

[Metachrosis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uuhbCOqIaC4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=S59IXI9g6VE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j_fI0hm1dqY
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...lanza_father_of_connection_to_sandy_hook.html
http://beforeitsnews.com/economics-...ass-shootings-connected-to-libor-2447738.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...accord-said-to-be-as-much-as-1-6-billion.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libor_scandal
http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblo...ul/20/holmess-father-is-anti-fraud-scientist/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ailing-meet-expectations-academic-father.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/auror...d-james-holmes/story?id=16818889#.UAnPJDFU2NE
http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/20/james-holmes-father-robert-holmes-colorodo-shooting/
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2012/07/james-holmes-appears-drugged-and-sleepy-in-court.html
http://hereisthecity.com/2012/10/04...s-charlie-gasparino-reports-sen-grassley-and/

 

[Lucille]

The concept of law is meant as a framework, not a crutch. Laws are not meant to take the place of personal responsibility.

There are those who want to criminalize the possession of all reptiles because of the actions of the few that have been irresponsible, just as now there is a call to criminalize possession of all guns because of the few that have caused problems. How long do you think it is going to be, before they come to take away your reptiles, if you agree that more laws are the answer to all problems?

 

[hadenglock]

Im not a social media whore so REDDIT or whatever it is escapes me

I dont go on it either but the joke is still really funny

 

[Metachrosis]

If you say so . . . . .

 

[JColt]

I wished I would have done a better job of what I meant last night. One I was tired but killing time before I had to finish something. The other was typing on a kindlefire. No I do not think the average person should suffer if guns are stolen and used in a crime. I was thinking more in line with what happened. You have a woman with an assault weapon and other weapons that seemed to be easy to get to and used by her son who she knew had mental disability. I think if an owner is proven to be careless with access to his weapons it should be a stiff penalty. Like Lucille said though, Very hard to determine when, what and how.

 

[WebSlave]

Bout $2,500 last one I saw(this year)
By no means are Class 3's "easy to get",mind need to stick with buying bridges

Well that had to be a dealer sample, as a REAL full auto Steyr AUG available for sale to the public would have at least another zero behind that number you quoted.

Heck, the two semi-auto versions I bought years ago cost more than $2500 each back then when they were readily available.

 

[Metachrosis]

Sourcing is the key,where you find one another isnt far from reach
Buying a clone would be the best route

 

[FireStorm]

I wished I would have done a better job of what I meant last night. One I was tired but killing time before I had to finish something. The other was typing on a kindlefire. No I do not think the average person should suffer if guns are stolen and used in a crime. I was thinking more in line with what happened. You have a woman with an assault weapon and other weapons that seemed to be easy to get to and used by her son who she knew had mental disability. I think if an owner is proven to be careless with access to his weapons it should be a stiff penalty. Like Lucille said though, Very hard to determine when, what and how.

I don't watch the news much (no tv), so maybe I missed something, and if I did I apologize. But isn't the owner of the guns dead? Wasn't she murdered by the guy who took them and used them to kill others? So how easy was it to get them? I find it hard to believe that if someone kills me, takes my guns, and uses them to commit a crime, I am somehow the guilty party.

 

[Metachrosis]

thats where blame and denial lead people,with the amount of info that is now out people STILL choose to hold to what they have been programed with.
9/11 Building #7 still fell and it still wasnt hit by a plane . . . . .

 

[WebSlave]

The simple FACT of the matter is that the public is being lied to at every turn. About nearly EVERYTHING, by nearly EVERYONE.

 

[WebSlave]

Sourcing is the key,where you find one another isnt far from reach
Buying a clone would be the best route

Please PM me with such a source.

No, clones are not acceptable. I want the REAL DEAL.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

That's one of the problems with all the people coming forward and stating they are all for the second amendment but they haven't a clue what they are talking about.

Repeated by the mainstream media over and over again as fact and they grab the talking points and go with it.

The populace as a whole isn't running around with automatic weapons.
Try semi-automatic.

You need to get your class 3 and not everybody and their uncle tom is going to do it.


How much harder gun laws do you suggest and what?

They're good about convicted criminals and they are stripping away rights for mental problems. So what other precrime can they come up with without simply banning weapons from people who have done no wrong?

Tragedies are going to happen. If this pathetic soul wanted to kill children he could have waited till a bunch of kids were in the crosswalk and mowed them down with is car. Your not going to stop evil.

Sure you can limited the ways and restrict more and more freedom but you are never going to end it.

We're humans. A lot of us are great, caring and compassionate. Some of us are troubled, desperate, evil and ill.

Let us get this straight though. It isn't about semi-automatics, assault weapon (not defined). Every single talking hack on the news goes right to the outright banning of most guns and how great it would be. That is the goal, period. That's what they want.

That fricken Peirce Morgan on CNN is full of crap. He keeps talking about banning assault weapons (again, define) then goes on to talk how great it is they banned all guns in most of Europe and particularly the UK. That's the goal and that is what these elitist want.

They keep talking about how the murder rate is down by gun. They don't talk about how the violent crime rate which includes murder by all means is way up. Now they are talking about banning most knifes across the pond.

There are several other points the media political agenda driven hacks don't tell you either.

When most of the UK and Europe had their rights to most weapons and we were all on the same equal footing, We were still more violent and ranked even worse then now many years. We are a more violent society and we have always been. Check the states fifty years ago, a hundred. We have always had a more violent society. Gun laws or not.

Sure gun murders are down In the UK. They also have more control on their society. From cctv on every corner in the city and every single word utterrd that is unpolitically correct can result in a fine, jail-time, etc..

Where people who kill defending themselves from being killed in their own homes are convicted of murder to a larger degree. Shorter sentences for criminals and more regulations than here. A society almost completely controlled in almost all of Europe.

It's not about the type of weapon, It's about weapons period.
Look at society at large. Look all around you. We promote violence everywhere. If we were on a equal footing with others that have banned most firearms we would still be ranked the same.

Horrible things are going to continue to happen regardless of banning guns. The only thing that you will insure is the stronger will win or those that still have them will on a individual or group level.

A individual will always lose to a group attack, a elderly person will always lose to a mugging, innocent people will always lose to a criminal with a gun bent on killing. The strong will win and the weak will always die. That's it period. No equalization.

Police are good after the fact but they don't magically appear at the scene before the death or crime.

Make no mistake the goal is to remove all guns. Heck they are talking about all handguns on the news earlier today. They propose to take the one thing that gave everyone a equal chance away.

People will still die if you take guns away. You can't save anyone but you can strip more and more freedom away.

The only way you can start making a dent is strict control of population at every moment. Sure, you become safer at the cost of everything that Americans consider a inalienable right.

You can chip away at gun rights all you want but there will come a time when those who want to protect everyone (control) will push to far. Were not Europe, Australia or any other place. What we consider a given freedom isn't the same.

That freedom of arms is rooted in our very creation as a nation. It will not be given up here at this time or the near future.

Sorry, the news stations really pissed me off the last few days. Mr. Morgan others really got under my skin.

That elitist punk needs to carry his butt back over the pond where he will be more comfortable. He is not a American Citizen. He sits there and tells us each week that we need to give up our rights and be more like Europe.

F' him! You know what happen when someone with a British Accent last demanded all arms from the American people.

Every freaking reporter not talking about the prescriptions the shooter was on or his state. It's all a secondary issue. BS

It's suppose to be about personal responsibility here in this country not some collective Borg hive.

I'm just ranting not even to the poster here. Sorry, END....

 

[WebSlave]

The only way the USA could try to confiscate all the guns is by sending heavily armored groups to each and every house. It might get censored from the major media outlets, but with cell phone video and what not, it will be on the internet instantly. Unless the internet gets shut down, once people see this going on, it will be open revolt, and open season on the confiscators.

How many gun owners are there in the USA? Probably no one really knows for certain, but the estimates I saw was roughly 50 MILLION. Probably really twice that. Yeah, not all of the are going to resist a gun confiscation, but suppose even 10 percent do? There is no law enforcement agency in this world that can handle 5 MILLION pissed off gun owners scattered all across the USA. And the longer the conflict continues, the more people who will get pissed off too, and join right in after watching their neighbors getting killed, all to confiscate personal property in defiance of the Constitution of this country.

To say it will get REAL ugly is a major understatement.

And I can't imagine anyone with a quarter of a brain in our government not knowing this.