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Egg problems so far this season...

Golden Gate Geckos

Mean Old Gecko Lady
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I have been reading comments by several folks on a couple of different forums about low fertility and/or hatch rates. I have also had problems with eggs this year! In years past, I have always had 95% or better hatch rates, and this year is very disappointing so far. I do have several new 1st time breeders this year, so I expected a few infertile clutches at first, but I have had about 20% of my eggs fail from either being infertile or failing in the first 4 weeks. I am incubating the exact same way I have for the last 9 years.

Now, here comes the clincher... my season didn't start off this way, but I did switch over to using the T-Rex Leopard Gecko Dust in March. That is when all the problems started! I have several females who were laying fertile eggs start laying clutch after clutch of infertile eggs, and the eggs that were fertile are failing. I have had to throw out 5 clutches of eggs just this week alone!!!

Needless to say, I stopped using the Leopard Gecko Dust and went back to Rep-Cal calcium and vitamin powder like I have been using, so we'll see if that changes anything. So, I guess my questions are... could this be the problem? Has anyone else had similar experiences? How many are using the T-Rex Leopard Geckos Dust?
 
Thanks for sharing .

I have had to throw out around a dozen and had one die in the egg this year out of a 100 or so. Thats like 88% so far. And thats not to say some more couldn't go bad. I think anywhere in the 80-90 percentile is pretty darn good. Take care Marcia. OH YEAH I STILL WANT TO SEE UPDATED PICS OF THE REVERSE STRIPERS!!!
 
im a first time breeder..

and im on my second try at incubating eggs, my females lay the eggs perfectly fine, and then somthing goes wrong later on, i had 7 fertile eggs die in their 4th week of incubating at 83*f, very dissapointing, right now i have 2 gravid females and their food is always dusted with T-rex's leopard gecko dust, i switched from rep-cal after my females first 2 clutches and found that after i started using the leo dust she laid the eggs faster, at first they where 4 weeks apart, then using the leo dust they where 2 1/2 weeks apart, i think it's because repcal is only calcium and vit d3
where as leopard gecko dust has everything in it..if i had the container right now i'd list all it has, with rep-cal you have to mix it with Herptivite to get the proper amount of supplementation, and leo dust already has done that for you, so my word doesnt really count seeing as how im a new breeder..but this is my experience and i say go with T-rex's Leopard Gecko dust
 
hmmm....

my females lay the eggs perfectly fine, and then somthing goes wrong later on, i had 7 fertile eggs die in their 4th week of incubating at 83*f, very dissapointing, right now i have 2 gravid females and their food is always dusted with T-rex's leopard gecko dust
Do you think the problem may have started when you switched to T-Rex Leopard Gecko Dust?
 
doubt it

when i had those 7 eggs i wasnt using leo dust, i was usung rep-cal, i started using leo dust like...4 weeks ago, the eggs probably died because the temps and humidity where wrong, i had a very crappy thermometer that said the temps where inbetween 80-83*f,and no humidity gauge, the eggs began to sweat,dent and then grew mold and turned green, i know about..maybe 3-4 people who use leo dust and hatch eggs with no problems at all
but now that i have an actual hovobator,humidity gauge,digital thermometer im hoping to hatch out my first baby leos

i guess you learn from your mistakes..i sure have, if your not to sure on using leo dust then dont, only you can make that choice
 
This is interesting. I'm using reptical calcium and the vitamin suppliment, and thus far out of 28 eggs I have had 4 bad ones. One did not hatch when its clutchmate did and eventually collapsed after 65 days. The other 3 molded over and collapsed within 3 days. Two of those were from Monte. I know he said he was having issues with bad hatching rate. I wonder if he used T-rex?

Regards,

Terry
 
I did start adding a little bit of Herptivite along with the calcium in each bowl, which I didnt do last year. Thats the only thing ive done different.
hmmm

~Crystal Light
 
Terry,

I would suspect so, as he uses the crested gecko diet.



Interesting though, I switched all my leos to the T-Rex as well and have had a miserable year. I'm actually in the process of trying to get my leos to stop laying, to give their bodies a break from laying dud eggs!
 
Maybe its the sudden switch? Regardless of what your using, or have been using? I dunno...maybe their bodies have grown accustomed to what they are being supplemented with...and the switch sets them off enough to mess things up with the eggs growing inside of them, or soon to be produced??

I dont know...just a thought...thinking out loud, LOL

~Crystal Light
 
I have had good luck so far this year.
Out of 25 fertile eggs so far all have hatched out with 4 due in the next few weeks.
I even had 2 first year breeders and one's first clutch was infertile but since she has layed 7 fretile clutches since then. the other first year one egg of her first clutch was even fertile. And the proven all have been fertile.
I use rep-calw/d3 and hertivite once or twice a month.
 
well now I definitely know im using too much vitamins. But still not sure if thats the problem.
You say you dust with Herptivite once or twice a month....can I ask how much you use per dusting? Do you put any in the bowl with the calcium, if so...how much?

Last thing I want to do is overdose on vitamins! Yikes!!

~Crystal Light
 
scary stuff...

ive had a great year so far (out of 12 eggs 9 have hatched) and i use miner-all mixed with t-rex.

HOWEVER... i feed gravid females pinkies only and i dont dust pinkies. maybe there is a link with t-rex like you guys were saying. wierd.

but t-rex has the same ingredienrts as vionate just different amounts. are people who steadily use vionate having problems? i can see where maybe switching over can cause problems (maybe) but i doubt that t-rex is directly involved in the low fertility and survival rate of your eggs.
 
supplements???

I have used Rep-Cal and Herptivite for as long as I can remember. I supplemented with calcium every 2-3 feedings and use vitamins about once a week, with the exception of breeding females that get calcium every feeding and vitamins every 2-3 feedings. I usually have about 230- 250 eggs laid per season, with about 5% failure or less.

Since around the first part of March, I have used T-Rex Leopard Gecko Dust with every feeding (like the directions say to do), I have had 66 eggs laid and 23 of those eggs fail. That's one third!!! That's an approximate loss of $1800.00 in potential gross revenue, not to mention the wear and tear on my little sweetheart females.

I am not saying that the T-Rex is the cause, I am just trying to make some kind of correlation because there seems to be an unusually high number of people posting about problems with their eggs this year. I don't know if it's because people are more willing to share their failures these days or if there is something going on that needs to be investigated. I am going to discontinue using T-Rex and see if anything changes.

In regard to Vionate, I am very reluctant to use it because it's main ingredient is corn meal and according to Dr. Frederic L. Frye, animal grade corn products are notorious for producing Aflatoxins (like Aspergillus flavus) which are poisonous to Leopard Geckos. As many may know, I lost 17 of my breeders several years ago to mycotoxic poisoning due to crickets that were fed on moldy corn-based feed by the grower. I'm just paranoid...
 
i have also had alot of infertile egs this year as well, im leaning toward the male right now, most the infertiles have been from him. I have a few fertile from him but for the most part infertile. Also i have had 3 die in the egg. right now i have one that collapsed 2 days ago, and hasent hatched yet, i have a feeling that it died in the egg as well.
 
Marcia,

This is a pretty interesting topic. Although I do not keep Leopard Geckos, I do keep Bearded Dragons and have used T-Rex Dragon Dust VGF Veggie Growth Formula. My Bearded Dragons are young adults now well into breeding age, but have not produced at all despite being fed well and maintained properly. I use the Dragon Dust sparingly as a supplement when I do not have a large variety of greens, or I feed it to my crickets and superworms before feeding the crickets to the lizards. I have been wondering why my pair of BDs has not yet produced, now I am wondering if it is in some way due to the Dragon Dust.

I went to the T-Rex site and viewed the information available for both the Dragon Dust and the Leopard Gecko Dust. The ingredients listed were the same for each from what I could see. At first I thought that was a glitch in their site, but I do wonder - maybe they use the same ingredients in each of their so-called Sandfire Super Foods. I checked the ingredients for the Box Turtle dust, and guess what - it too listed the same ingredients from what I could see in a quick glance. Either this stuff all has the same ingredients, or I read it wrong (maybe they mean these are all the various ingredients in their various Sandfire Super Foods, but not each ingredient is in each type of the Super Food), or there is a glitch with the ingredients listed on their site.


There was something else I noted on the site and on the jar of Dragon Dust I have. They claim this to be a "complete food" on the label of the jar, and as "complete and balanced". On the jar they also claim it: "…provides all of the nutritional requirements of growing juvenile dragons as well as breeding females". I note they also sell a product called Dragon Dust VGF Veggie maintenance Formula. This then is apparently not a supplement but part of a balanced regular diet. Now working on the premise that the Gecko formula likewise provides all the required nutritional requirements for a juvenile or breeding gecko I hypothesize that if you now add this to your geckos' diets, and then take away calcium and vitamin powders, they are receiving a balanced diet without any of what we would normally consider to be supplementation. In other words, while they may be receiving a bit more calcium, vitamins or other nutrients that are contained in these T-Rex products, they are receiving them in the form of a 'balanced diet'. They are not receiving EXTRA supplementation of only vitamins, minerals or calcium as would be the case when you use calcium, mineral and vitamin powders. In essence what they seemingly, at least seemingly to me, would be receiving is a bit more of a balanced diet and not a strong boost of calcium, minerals or vitamins. So I think they are getting what you would 'normally' have given them when you feed them crickets, and whatever other foods round out a Leo's diet. If those normally given foods were healthy and balanced I see little difference between giving them a bit more 'normal' food at each feeding and giving them the regular amount of food dusted with T-Rex dust products in place of that bit more of food - except that is for the actual ingredients of each diet (more on the ingredients below).

I do however see a vast difference between giving them calcium and vitamin supplementation as opposed to either feeding them a bit more or adding T-Rex dust. Now you would not be giving them a normally balanced diet, but one that is disproportionately higher than normal in calcium and vitamins. I am guessing that the effect of your changing to the Gecko Dust and stopping the calcium and vitamin supplementation is that you have cut back on their vitamin or calcium intake somewhat. I hope I am explaining this so it comes across making sense.

I do not think this would be enough to cause infertility or bad eggs but might cause a decrease in number of eggs produced or the thickness of shells. So I wondered on as to what might be causing your problem. When thinking about this I kept the T-Rex product in mind because of your claim that it was only after you commenced to use this stuff that the problems arose. My idea is a simple one, and I am not saying it is right, just that it is a hypothesis. There are a number of ingredients in the Gecko Dust that you do not normally feed your geckos (an assumption on my part). My hypothesis is that these ingredients in part or in whole may be causing some type of problem with reproduction or digestion (which could effect reproduction). Here are the ingredients that I could glean from their website (http://www.t-rexproducts.com/Dynamic/ingredients.asp?item=83252):

Dried Banana Powder
Dried Honey Powder
Hempseed Flour and Meal
Bee Pollen
Fig Powder
Whey Protein Isolate
Brewers Yeast
Wheat Germ
Calcium Carbonate
Spirulina Algae
RoseHips Powder
Kelp Meal
Haemotococcus Algae
Marigold Extract
Rosemary Extract
Yucca Extract
Probiotics: a special blend of bacteria containing live bacteria
Vitamin Premix: Vitamins Of most importance, are Vitamin A, and Vitamin D-3.

Does this sound like a reptile diet to you? To me it sounds like a health guru's diet for humans (except maybe for the Marigold Extract), and the ingredients list as shown on the T-Tex web site repeatedly says the source of some of the ingredients is the "human food ingredients industry". Of course they could be fine for reptiles, yet I wonder. Some of the ingredients I am a bit concerned about are: whey protein isolate, brewer's yeast, and live bacteria. If I understand correctly, whey is a dairy product or dairy byproduct. Could what I imagine to be an unnatural foodstuff for a gecko dairy product be causing a problem? As to brewers yeast, I wonder if the yeast culture is live, and if so can it be properly handled by a lizards digestive process or could it cause problems with absorption of nutrients that are required for successful reproduction. As to the live bacteria, could that also be a problem? Another guess is that other ingredients of this product that are not normally found in a Leos diet might also cause a problem with reproduction.

Then again maybe the change in diet is all that has caused the problem. There also could be another reason for the problem, but I do find it curious that it only commenced after the change in diet.

Please make sure to post if things return to normal when you discontinue the T-Rex product and return to your regular supplementation routine. I would suggest you also try simply stopping the T-Rex formula for some of your geckos without giving extra calcium and vitamin supplementation. If they start producing normal healthy clutches, and if the supplemented animals also produce normal healthy clutches, you could probably be more suspicious that the T-Rex product had something to do with your problem. You could not yet be sure, but you could place a small wager on it if you were a betting person.

All the best,
Glenn B;)
 
Glenn,

We had a discussion here a little while back regarding the ingredients. It was noted that a large number of the ingredients influence coloration.

You bring up a good point though. These supplements claim to be all inclusive, but not everyone breeds their animals.

Is more calcium necessary for breeding females? Are there other nutrients that are not provided in the necessary quantities for breeding females? Are there ingredients that are overabundant that impact adversely on reproduction?
 
That was a terrific post, Glenn!! I bought a bottle of that cricket dust when I first discovered it on the market but aside from sprinkling a little in the calcium dish once or twice, I haven't really used it. I've stuck with my regular supplements because there was something about the t-rex product that bothered me...only, I wasn't able to pinpoint it. I was excited about a new product but not won over by it enough to actually USE it. Now that I read your post, I know now why I wasn't completely comfortable with it. You're right. Where would leos come across bananas and whey?
 
egg probs

Glenn, I'm glad you posted your comprehensive theories. I also did a comparison of the ingredients in ALL of the T-Rex formulas including the Cricket Balancer, various "dusts", as well as the Crested, Gargoyle, and Leachie MRP's (meal replacement powders) and found that literally every one has the exact same ingredients!!! There is absolutely no way that leopards, beardies, and rhacs have the same nutritional requirements.

I have discontinued using the T-Rex Leopard Gecko Dust, and gone back to using RepCal and Herptivite the way I have done for 10 years. Too bad I bought the HUGE $29.99 jar.. I suppose I could use it in my feeder gut-load. :(
 
Hmmmm....I've seen this question posted in this thread, and unless I missed it, I don't think it was answered. Is it okay to keep a mix of the Rep-Cal and Herpivite supplements 24/7 in the tank or should you only offer Rep-Cal and occasionally use a Rep-Cal/Herpivite mix?
 
supplements

Is it okay to keep a mix of the Rep-Cal and Herpivite supplements 24/7 in the tank or should you only offer Rep-Cal and occasionally use a Rep-Cal/Herpivite mix?
I believe if you mix the calcium and the vitamins together too far ahead of time, the combination will cancel the other and they will lose their potency... although I really do not know how long 'too far' is. When I mix mine, I do it just prior to feeding.

I feel it is a good idea to leave a small dish of calcium powder in the enclosure at all times, but we shouldn't rely on that as the sole source of calcium. I do not believe that ALL geckos will use it, so food items should be dusted as well.

It is my personal and professional opinion that if you gutload your feeders with nutritious food, that leopard geckos only need to be supplemented with vitamins weekly, with calcium every 2-3 feedings. I feed my laying females every 1-2 days, as much as they will eat, and supplement with calcium every feeding. I also give the girls a pinkie after every clutch they lay.

Is more calcium necessary for breeding females? Are there other nutrients that are not provided in the necessary quantities for breeding females? Are there ingredients that are overabundant that impact adversely on reproduction?
Steven, you're right... these are million-dollar questions, and I'm sure we all would like to have the answers. When I have done web searches for "reptile nutrition" or "leopard gecko nutrition", the vast majority of information available is for iquanas or small blurbs from various care sheets. Reptiles just don't get the same level of study along these lines as dogs & cats. It only makes sense that additional nutrition and supplementation is necessary for any animal, especially during reproduction.
 
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