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Enigma Leopards

GreenTreePython13

GreenTreePython13

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What can you guys tell me about Enigmas? I read that they can have neurological problems. Is it similar to the reason that Spider Ball Pythons have issues too? What type of problems could I expect to see in an Enigma? Are people less likely to buy Enigmas because of these problems?
 
It is (IMO) identical to the issues we see with Spider Ball Pythons and Jaguar Carpet Pythons.

I've never had any problems selling Enigmas but I don't produce a lot of them anymore, mainly because I got tired of the backlash from the community. It's about 50/50: half of the people love them and can understand and deal with the issues, the other half chooses not to work with them and basically believes that anyone who breeds Enigmas is unethical.
 
the issues arent as bad as people make it seem. at least from my experience. they just have trouble with coordination, and maybe sight? but its not like geckos are super smart animals that need to have a high iq, in the end, enigmas can eat, poop, and mate, just like other leopard geckos.
 
GreenTreePython13 said:
Thanks Kelli. Is it because they've been inbred so much to establish the morph?
Click to expand...

What's nice about a dominant trait is that inbreeding isn't necessary once you've got an animal showing the morph. An excellent discussion thread about what potentially causes enigma disorder is available HERE.

I personally have stopped breeding enigmas not because I dislike them, but because I got tired of dealing with the small (<10%) percentage of geckos that displayed enigma disorder. Inevitably the animals can't be sold at normal market value, and in some cases it's hard just giving them away to good homes because some need to be hand fed. I've got two girls I hatched last year that are still in my care and taking up rack space, but I breed roaches and so feeding them isn't as big a problem for me as it is for other people. I also have a beautiful male nova that I don't want to breed because he's not showing any symptoms of enigma disorder right now and sometimes breeding will make it come out.

In my experience, the disorder really has nothing to do with husbandry or inbreeding, and is present to some degree in all enigmas.
 
Agreed

I agree with what Kelli and others have stated above. It is present to some degree in every enigma (in my experience) and is very controversial to many people. In my experience an animal with little to no issues can still produce babies with major problems and the other parent seems to affect that outcome in very significant and unpredictable ways.
I have vastly curtailed my breeding of them after producing some really bad examples. I still find them interesting and haven't given up completely but I have one female that flips over on her back when she tries to look at you. She has required assist feeding since birth nearly 2 years ago because she cannot accurately target her prey. I have to care for her daily which is a constant reminder of the consequences of my choice to breed them.

Think carefully before you proceed!

John
 
that is true, they might eat sometimes, but definitely not as well as other geckos. if you have the time and patience to hand feed them ok, otherwise dont do it
 
i pretty much assist feed my normals anyways lol. I give them f/t pinkies and superworms, which tend to crawl away unnoticed most of the time. The crickets, though, are sitting ducks for my guys lol
 
I've raised more a hundred Enigmas, and they eat and grow just like any other leopard gecko.
 
Yes, I didn't mean to imply that they are all like that. Just citing one very bad case to illustrate what can happen. Most of the others I've produced have eaten and grown just fine.
My point was you'll need to decide what your own personal policy (or philosophy) is before you start breeding them.
What will you do if you hatch a bad one?...Kill it? Keep it? Give it away? There are lots of moral issues involved.

But...those same questions can come up anytime you breed anything. With Leo's there can be missing limbs, small or missing eyes, deformed tails & jaws, etc.

Just something to consider.

John
 
Yeah, I agree with your points... and concur that prior to breeding geckos period, one should understand that issues will happen occasionally, whether you work with Enigmas or not. You will produce deformed hatchlings, hatchlings that refuse to eat, hatchlings that have severe shedding issues etc. whether you ever have an Enigma in your racks or not. I think with the Enigma morph the true dilema is "I hatched this baby Enigma that eats fine, grows fine, sheds fine, but when it is startled by something it runs around in circles... what should I do with it???". At least IMO.

I think that Enigmas get a bad rap. They are a morph, and what makes them look so cool also causes them to act weird sometimes. No different than Spider Ball Pythons or Jaguar Carpet Pythons at all, but the leopard gecko community is comprised of mostly young and/or beginner breeders that see things differently that myself or others might. It comes down to a personal choice... some people love Enigmas for what they are, some people hate them for what they are! :)
 
KelliH said:
You will produce deformed hatchlings, hatchlings that refuse to eat, hatchlings that have severe shedding issues etc. whether you ever have an Enigma in your racks or not.
Click to expand...

This applies to all animals really. Once you start breeding anything, there is always that chance. Even for human reproduction.
 
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