Enough is enough with the classifieds (*or* Why you cannot reply to classified ads)

[WebSlave]

*** For anyone reading this thread without reading other more recent threads about this issue, please refer to -> http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=454667. In a nutshell, a public poll showed that the majority of the members voting preferred being able to have replies to classified ads re-eneabled. So that was done. Probably no real sense in reading the rest of this thread with that in mind. ***


I've been looking over the statistics for infractions that the mods have had to dish out, and BY FAR they are spending most of their time in the classifieds section. Problems such as disruptive posts, downright nastiness, members creating false accounts to bump their ads, getting someone also to alternate as a "bump buddy", and all sorts of replies to ads that really have no business being there.

Two problems here: (1) This is giving my mods far more work than they need to be putting in here as volunteers. And (2), the classifieds section has become actually HOSTILE to advertisers trying to sell their animals or merchandise on this site.

This NEEDS to stop.

Yes, some is simply ignorance of new members not knowing the ropes. But they get an infraction for their actions, then get pissed about it and sometimes wind up leaving. So there is no real good way to handle this after the fact. Do I really want to just out right ban anyone immediately who causes these problems? I don't think so. That just tends to rub people the wrong way and can be self defeating.

As I have indicated in the past, there is a simple solution to this sort of problem, but obviously it is not perfect or I would have already implemented it. And that is, to simply STOP all replies to classified threads. Rather than just do the cold turkey approach, I will first limit replies to classified threads so that only paid members can utilize that function. I will then evaluate how effective that has been, and if not enough, then that function ceases for ALL members. The classifieds will become strictly a single post display of what an advertiser has to offer, and that is it. Of course they will need to provide adequate contact info within that post, but that should be common sense anyway.

Another drawback is that other members will not be able to draw attention to a problem with the classified ad, whether about the seller/buyer him or her self, or misrepresentation or misidentification of the animal or other merchandise. Unfortunate, but that simply puts the burden on anyone considering engaging in a transaction with the OP to DO THEIR OWN HOMEWORK. Make certain you know who you are dealing with and what you are buying (or selling). The BOI is here for everyone to use. But I cannot force a horse to drink if it refuses to do so when provided water.

Another drawback is that post count here will likely drop quite a bit. But heck, there are nearly 5,000 entries in the infraction log, and that is telling me that there is a problem that really needs to be addressed here.

Yes, I know some people won't like this, and others will like it. Just par for the course here, but I believe I made it quite clear that I will do what is needed to make this site better. At least from my own perspective. I have no illusions, and will make NO attempts to try to please everyone. If you are one of those who do not like the change, I am sorry about that, but there doesn't appear to be much of an option.

 

[Lucille]

Since this is the feedback forum, I have some. I just replied to a post and when I looked at the right hand column of the forum listing it simply said turtles/tortoises. I did not realize I was in classified territory until I received an infraction.
I am very supportive of your site, and having a strong classified and the BOI on the same site has many advantages.
Perhaps I should have been paying more attention, but just as a brainstorming idea, could classifieds have a slightly different font, or some other way to set them off?

 

[JColt]

I find replies and chat in classifieds to be disruptive anyway. Most people cannot even read when someone says, email or phone only. The report button should be enough to alert a mod that a fishy post has been made in classifieds and handled.

 

[MikeCurtin]

I, too, have some feedback.

It seems a bit contradictory for the home of the BOI to be so rabidly opposed to its members asking questions and/or pointing out inconsistencies or misrepresentations within its own classified ads. Yes, some members, including myself, have been disruptive. However, the fact remains that in some cases, Fauna is becoming a safe haven for the very types of unscrupulous dealers that the BOI was created to protect against.

I have a feeling there will be surge of new activity on the Board of Inquiry.

 

[TheFragginDragon]

I, too, have some feedback.

It seems a bit contradictory for the home of the BOI to be so rabidly opposed to its members asking questions and/or pointing out inconsistencies or misrepresentations within its own classified ads.

Mike, if replies to classified ads were limited only to the examples you give, there wouldn't be a problem to address in this manner. As Rich stated:

......... disruptive posts, downright nastiness, members creating false accounts to bump their ads, getting someone also to alternate as a "bump buddy", and all sorts of replies to ads that really have no business being there.

 

[WebSlave]

I, too, have some feedback.

It seems a bit contradictory for the home of the BOI to be so rabidly opposed to its members asking questions and/or pointing out inconsistencies or misrepresentations within its own classified ads. Yes, some members, including myself, have been disruptive. However, the fact remains that in some cases, Fauna is becoming a safe haven for the very types of unscrupulous dealers that the BOI was created to protect against.

I have a feeling there will be surge of new activity on the Board of Inquiry.

"Rabidly opposed"?

Exaggerate much?

 

[Laura Fopiano]

I like the idea of no chatter in the classifieds. Yes there can be some untrustworthy sellers and that's what the BOI is for.

I can't go to other sites and type my opinion on their adds, but I can use the BOI to look the so-called sellers up.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I, too, have some feedback.

It seems a bit contradictory for the home of the BOI to be so rabidly opposed to its members asking questions and/or pointing out inconsistencies or misrepresentations within its own classified ads. Yes, some members, including myself, have been disruptive. However, the fact remains that in some cases, Fauna is becoming a safe haven for the very types of unscrupulous dealers that the BOI was created to protect against.

I have a feeling there will be surge of new activity on the Board of Inquiry.

Mike, I think everyone just needs to use the BOI for that purpose. You can simply link to the ads on the BOI of questionable situations. If people can't find the BOI on the same site they are using the classifieds at, I don't know if there is much hope in saving them from a bad transaction. I wouldn't call that a safe haven but more of a change in format. Most places you can't even post in the classifieds let alone state that the person is bad to do business with. Here they just have to check another forum on the same site.

 

[hhmoore]

I, too, have some feedback.

It seems a bit contradictory for the home of the BOI to be so rabidly opposed to its members asking questions and/or pointing out inconsistencies or misrepresentations within its own classified ads. Yes, some members, including myself, have been disruptive. However, the fact remains that in some cases, Fauna is becoming a safe haven for the very types of unscrupulous dealers that the BOI was created to protect against.

I have a feeling there will be surge of new activity on the Board of Inquiry.

We are not "rabidly opposed" to members asking questions or pointing out inconsistencies/misrepresentations...however, when those members become argumentative or harassing, it becomes a problem. The BOI has been separated from the classifieds for a long time, with BOI type posts only being allowed on the BOI - links may be posted in an ad, but going into details, or rehashing the issue, has not been permitted. The point that is apparently being missed is that the entire reason that the classifieds weren't closed to posts a long time ago was because we didn't want to hinder people from asking relevant questions, from pointing out misrepresentations, or posting a BOI link....unfortunately, this is a matter of the problematic people & their behavior affecting the many members that function within the guidelines.

Bigger pieces of the problem are the people that jump into someone's ad directing viewers to another seller (or trying to sell their own stuff), the sarcastic comments about pricing, the chatter between other members which is unrelated to the sale (we have discussion forums, chat, and PMs for that), and the piling on that occurs in any number of circumstances. (there are other issues, but I'm trying not to belabor the points and drag this out)
We've put a lot of time and effort into trying to curtail these things, and there have been a ton of posted warnings. It just seems like for every person that gets the message and modifies his behavior, there is at least one more person getting ready to jump into that spot.

This decision is in response to a clear, and growing, problem. In a recent moderator discussion, every one of us acknowledged the beneficial reasons for allowing posted responses, regardless of our personal preferences. The choice not to pull the plug on responses entirely is because we consider those reasons not only valid, but compelling. I'm sure there are some that will say this is just another way of making people pay for what should be free; but that isn't the case. I doubt that many people would become paid subscribers just to post responses in the classifieds, lol....but, the hope is that the paid subscribers have a little more respect for the rules and guidelines (and that they aren't going to piss their contribution away by repeatedly disrupting ads, receiving infractions until they are banned).

 

[Mikkwa]

I am fairly new to this forum & I do love coming over here to just look, often. I agree that the classifieds are getting out of hand with the disruptive, sometimes belittling posts. I personally feel that some of the people creating such post do it for the sheer pleasure of posting. Maybe a few are just seeking attention & they sure get what their looking for with even more disruption.

I have bought several snakes from the classifieds & I have always went to the BOI to check the potential seller out first. I have seen a few ads that I felt the snake was misrepresented or priced too high & instead of feeling the need to antagonize the op about it I just simply went on to another ad to look further. How hard is it to look & go on without having to be nasty to someone you may have never met.

I have posted good guy BOIs for good transactions I have had & have yet found the need to post a bad guy BOI. I think some of my good luck is that I use the BOI as my tool & that is where all the positive & negative posts about sellers & buyers should be posted unless there is a need to send a personal message to the op. This is my personal opinion, but I have not posted any nevative comments on anyone's ads & I have not gotten an infraction, yet. Works for me! If the mods have need to lock the ads it will be o.k. with me as I prefer to e-mail or pm the op about potential purchases in the first place.

 

[hhmoore]

BTW - our apologies to those sellers currently running auctions...call it collateral damage, but no posts means no bids (or limited bids, since paid members can still post). You may wish to address that concern prior to auction end so you don't have unhappy bidders.

 

[MikeCurtin]

Ok....so maybe "rabidly opposed" was a tad strong. It has just seemed lately that often times an animal and/or its lineage is being discussed, as soon as some headway is being made with regards to a morph and/or how it works, a mod stops the discussion. I think these discussions are good for both buyers and sellers.

As for the disruptive stuff, I blame Shad Quill. That guy's a trouble maker and should be banned!

 

[WebSlave]

Ok....so maybe "rabidly opposed" was a tad strong. It has just seemed lately that often times an animal and/or its lineage is being discussed, as soon as some headway is being made with regards to a morph and/or how it works, a mod stops the discussion. I think these discussions are good for both buyers and sellers.

As for the disruptive stuff, I blame Shad Quill. That guy's a trouble maker and should be banned!

Sorry, but this is likely the core of the problem. The classifieds section is NOT a discussion section. It is intended for members to buy and sell their animals and merchandise. It is not intended for a buyer or seller to be cross examined and grilled to the point of exhaustion about what they are buying or selling. Some questions would have been OK, but from what I have seen, some people only want to see the answer they WANT to see, and nothing else. So they therefore turn the discussion into badgering, which often escalates into a pissing duel. Which then gets the buyers and/or sellers pissed off, as well as legitimate potential clients pissed off at the disruption and off topic discussion that has resulted.

I personally would have preferred to leave the classifieds as they were, hoping that participants would be able to handle such transactions maturely and professionally. But when I saw the classifieds becoming an extremely hostile environment for legitimate business to take place, I really had no choice but to put an end to that sort of nonsense.

This puts a lot of burden on members to do their own homework outside of the actual classified ad, but unfortunately, that is what they now have to do.

 

[eskew]

I call horse shit! Micro moderating at it's finest. If an ad smells like fish and your willing to let an unknowing buyer be taken for a ride and not pull that ad, well sir you're as bad as that seller. But to penalize another member for questioning or "badgering" a seller who is blatantly dishonest or is talking out of their arse is just absurd.

 

[Lucille]

I call **** Micro moderating at it's finest. If an ad smells like fish and your willing to let an unknowing buyer be taken for a ride and not pull that ad, well sir you're as bad as that seller. But to penalize another member for questioning or "badgering" a seller who is blatantly dishonest or is talking out of their arse is just absurd.

I disagree. People here are not infants, they do not need to be over-protected. A link to a BOI thread is permitted and all that is needed.
If sellers are badgered all the time over all sorts of stuff, they will go someplace else, that's not good if they happen to be decent sellers.
If they are scammers, then the link to the BOI will alert potential purchasers that they need to do some reading.

 

[hhmoore]

Constructive criticism is welcome...profanity is not; and you really aren't in a good position to absorb too many infraction points. Think before you submit, Mr Quill.

 

[eskew]

I disagree. People here are not infants, they do not need to be over-protected. A link to a BOI thread is permitted and all that is needed.

you may have a position as a moderator here soon. Keep up the good work

 

[Lucille]

you may have a position as a moderator here soon. Keep up the good work

Shad I'm thinking most people who read this thread will understand and agree with at least part of what I said because it uses common sense. If you badger folks they are going to run off. If you give folks the opportunity to make their own purchasing choices via reading the BOI, it gives them more freedom than making their choices for them.
So your thumbs up needs to be sent to all those thousands of people as well.

 

[hhmoore]

So much for being constructive....

 

[GHC Exotics]

Im just glad that I found this thread, I had a few replies to one of my ads and was not able to reply to them today after i got them, but was able to in a PM.. but this helps clear up what was going on.