Erik Stoops. Center for Reptile and Amphibian research bad guy so far.

[BenSiegelReptiles]

leucistic blue tounges

too funny

 

[Ballroom]

Did you get that Leucistic Blue tongue???

 

[critical bill]

First off boys and girls here's the truth of the matter.I'm the collections manager

ahahahahahhahahahaha.....

I've never laughed so hard at a dozen or so words that I've nearly crapped myself. You came so close but only because I have the flu.

ahahahahahaha...."I'm the collections manager"....ahahahahahahahahahaha.

 

[ravensgait]

Michael, are these animals from the same group that we got our pair from?

The reason I ask is that if so and this was some virus that the animal had before Michael shipped it to them then it stands to reason that all the animals in that group would likely have the same problem. Other than my male having a stuck on shed from his cage drying out while I was away for a couple weeks not long ago, they have been fine.

We've seen this tactic here recently IE animals dieing from some illness and the owner trying to lay the blame at the door of the person they got them from. Mouth Rot can be caused by something as simple as a broken tooth or it can be a symptom of some other underlying problem. Seeing as they knew of the problem ahead of time ETC ETC and that is was months later that the animal(s) died. Without some real evidence provided by the buyer that this was in fact something Michael is responsible for I can't see why they shouldn't pay.. Another thing is the buyers terms of service, they have nothing to do with this. As I understand it they went to Michael not the other way around so It doesn't matter if they were paying cash or in chicken eggs, it is Michael's terms that apply here not theirs.

Boeleni are a touchy species now I don't claim to be near the expert that people like Ari are. I do know that they seem to just up and die for no apparent reason, they seem fine one day and are dead the next. If you buy one you very well may be throwing away the purchase price. There is oh so much that needs to be learned about these critters. While I understand that they are upset over the loss of these animals, heck I'd be upset if mine died tomorrow but I wouldn't go looking at Michael to compensate me for the loss.. Randy

 

[Animal34343]

I too have had a similar experience dealing with Michael Cole. About a year ago I bought a pair of Uroplatus fimbriatus geckos from him. Both arrived sick and dehydrated. One died right after I received it and was sent another sick replacement. The first one died within a day or two and the other two died less than a week after I received them, so they weren't covered under the guarantee. If you have ever seen him set up at a show in Tampa, the majority of his lizards are in pretty bad shape. I've seen many malnurished tokays crammed into one screen cage, having to lay on top of eachother because there is no room. I have seen several species of Uroplatus in the same shape, skin and bones, all crammed into one tank also. I remember a monitor lying in its own feces with an awful smell coming from the tank, which was too small as it was, and no one at his booth cared at all. I thought to myself if this is how he showcases his animals at a show, imagine what they must live in at home.

 

[Cat_72]

While I can't speak for Michael Cole's setups at shows as I have not seen them, I have made a couple of purchases from him online, and the animals were fat and healthy. He also seemed very concientious, making sure they arrived safely and that I was indeed happy with them.

That said, in this case Michael was completely straightforward with the buyer. They were aware of the animal having some previous issues, and the treatment it received. They still agreed to buy the animal. The animal was in their care, not Michael's, for a good period of time before it died. They owe Michael his money, plain and simple.

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

I'm curious as to why the 'collections manager' hasn't replied to anything since he was on the thread reading it several times last night. I think Michael needs to be paid the money he is owed.

 

[dsirkle]

I too have had a similar experience dealing with Michael Cole. About a year ago I bought a pair of Uroplatus fimbriatus geckos from him. Both arrived sick and dehydrated. One died right after I received it and was sent another sick replacement. The first one died within a day or two and the other two died less than a week after I received them, so they weren't covered under the guarantee. If you have ever seen him set up at a show in Tampa, the majority of his lizards are in pretty bad shape. I've seen many malnurished tokays crammed into one screen cage, having to lay on top of eachother because there is no room. I have seen several species of Uroplatus in the same shape, skin and bones, all crammed into one tank also. I remember a monitor lying in its own feces with an awful smell coming from the tank, which was too small as it was, and no one at his booth cared at all. I thought to myself if this is how he showcases his animals at a show, imagine what they must live in at home.

You have seen that he routinely sets up in Tampa with all these lizards in "pretty bad shape, malnourished, crammed into one cage lying on top of one another, skin and bones, lying in feces with an awful smell" and then based on this decided to purchase a pair of Uroplatus timbriatus geckos from him? Something just doesn't seem right with that.

 

[Dogboa]

I'm curious as to why the 'collections manager' hasn't replied to anything since he was on the thread reading it several times last night. I think Michael needs to be paid the money he is owed.

Come on Matt, you know his chubba sangre told him to clam up so his "slander" suit can proceed! LOL

Craig

 

[Ballroom]

Jacob,
Fortunately I do have our e-mail correspondence also.
Which as you'll see included me offering you to come to our facility to pick up your animal. You did not.
If I had a monitor sitting in its own feces at a show,
Its because it just took a crap. I strive to have a very nice set up at shows and clean up as soon as we see it.I believe your probably talking about he croc monitor at the last fall show. Monitor crap does stink, especially fresh crap. When we found the poop.. We cleaned it up.. Sorry it had to sit there for some time. Perhaps you could have told someone...
On the Tokay's.. Yes I put a lot of them in a tank together for a show as w sell a ton of them. They are not in a tank by themselves but rather wit fresh cuttings of rubber trees so they can crawl around. If you've ever kept any number of Tokay's you would know that they tend to gather together even in larger cages....
E-mails....

Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 12:03 AM
Subject: fimbriatus


hi, this is Jake, i received an order Tuesday of a young fimbriatus and ebanaui. well, tonight when i came home i found the fimbriatus dead. its only been about three days that Ive had it. all of the other animals you sent me are doing good. i fed it Tuesday when it arrived and again Thursday, along with misting it 2-3 times each day. will i get a refund? do i need to send it back?
thanks, Jake

My response..

Jake. Send me your shipping information. and tele # again. No need to send it back But I do require a photo of the body. I will send you a replacement. on Monday for Tuesday AM delivery... Please also send me a complete overview of your set up .. IE size plants substrate misting water used other animals temperatures...food. Supplements...anything and everything you can think of no matter how minor it seems lets see if I cant help make your set up better... ( please dint think I am cutting on you.) just sometimes it helps for acclimation purposes. Sorry you lost it.. But we'll make it right.
Thanks
Michael Cole
Ballroom Pythons South
www.BallroomPythonsSouth.com
863-439-3015


your response
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: fimbriatus


it was kept in a 40 gallon high tank with dividers in it to house different groups of animals. the substrate is zoo med repti bark and its fir bark, i use it in several other tanks as well. i have 2 big fake plants and a branch from one corner to the other, i have fake plants in other tanks and have used that branch in another one but it was cleaned before i put it in this one. there is a water dish filled with drinking water, which is the same water they are misted with. i normally mist my tanks once a day but i have misted this one 2-3 times to prevent dehydration from the trip since its tail was not completely opened up. it was kept with the first fimbriatus you sent me, but the tank is divided up into 3 sections, to the left is a pair of lineatus and to the write are the two mossies you sent me along with my male. during the day i alternate a heat lamp over the 3 sections so they dont overheat, so the temperature is pretty constant around 85 and during the night it gets around 75. every other night i feed them 2-3 crickets each that range in size from 1/2 - 3/4 inch. i dust the crickets with rep-cal "calcium with vitamin d3" and rep-cal " herptivite". i did see it eat a cricket the first night it was here. my shipping address is 1629 sun city center plaza, sun city center, fl, 33573 and the number is 813-633-7116.

the animal was stiffened in this position when i found it last night about 11:15


here is an underside view and there is a dark spot on the right side in the middle of the stomach, which i read is a normal occurrence and i believe is caused by an organ leaking after the animal has been dead for some time


the third is a picture of one of its eyes which were both extremely sunken in


sorry for the quality of the pictures, it was a cell phone camera, but hopefully it will be enough.
thanks, jake

again my response.

Your caging sounds pretty good.
A couple of suggestions .. Take it or leave it.. Just my recommendations...
1 Change substrate to grass ( this way they can not get the bark in their mouth. sometimes fimbriatus especially can be aggressive feeders....
2 Cool things another 3-5 degrees. 70-80 are optimum temperatures for Fim. In my opinion.
3 Stop using Supplements with D3. these are nocturnal geckos that do not need sunlight or D3 to make calcium.. It can be toxic in long term.
Again these are just my recommendations. Everyone has their own opinions about what is the best way to keep them.... I would venture to say however even most book writers have had 1000's less than me over the last 8 years...
I'll get your replacement out Monday.
Thanks
Michael Cole
Ballroom Pythons South
www.BallroomPythonsSouth.com
863-439-3015


I shipped on the 16th this is the next correspondence on the 25th .. 10 days later.. and again my response below that...


hey Mike, this is Jake writing back with some more bad news. I just found the second Fulbright's dead. I switched calcium with no D3 and lowered the temps some.



Is it too late to have a replacement? I received it Tuesday. Have you had any of yours die? Maybe it was a bad batch or is it something I'm doing wrong, or just a coincidence?
thanks, Jake

Jake. I would replace it for you if I were experiencing the same thing. Unfortunately with already replacing one I have already lost money so another just would be too much. I still have 20+ from that shipment and have not lost any of them since day 2 . I think its just bad luck or possible they want a bigger cage.... Everything else your describing on caging sounds good...
Send me your zip code again and i will figure out what it would cost exactly to ship you another one at my cost. It will have to be next week at the earliest I have 11000 balls coming this weekend and more plus indo coming Monday. Crazy busy here...
Thanks
Michael Cole
Ballroom Pythons South
www.BallroomPythonsSouth.com
863-439-3015

----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: fimbriatus


Mike,
Have you shipped any to anyone else, maybe it has something to do with stress from shipping them to soon after being imported. The original you sent me is doing good, he is real active and eating. Both of them that have died have been pretty groggy the whole time I had them. I was hoping it had just been from shipping and would liven up in a day or two. Anyways, I'm glad to here your staying busy and my zip code is 33573.
Thanks, Jake

I had only one other DOA and it was dead on shipping the same day as your first one.. Could be extra shipping stress... perhaps you could come out one day next week or weekend to pick one in person.. We are one hour east of I-4 and 75 intersection... Shipping for another one and cost will be 72.00 let me know what you'd like to do. I will be god=ne for the next 2 days...
Thanks
Michael Cole
Ballroom Pythons South
www.BallroomPythonsSouth.com
863-439-3015

Jake Your story tells a very different message than your e-mails.. First you claim all my animals were sick. But them you e-mail about the two dead. but all the others are doing great...I replaced one for you. I remember you calling about the replacement. You said,
" It looks great and its so big and fat..) I sure wish that was in an e-mail not a phone call. But 10 days later its dead. and thats my fault.. If you're not prepared to take some losses or take the time to call a vet or do some research h on your own. I would recommend not purchasing wildcaught leaftail geckos as they also are fragile and can be a challenge for people with limited species experience...
I always represent the animals as they are . Wildcaught leaftails untreated . I think I did a pretty good job of offering and replacing animals for you. But you never came over to get your other and see our place in person. So please do not speculate as to the cleanliness or how our facility looks if yo were not wiling to take a 1.5 hour drive out to see for yourself when offered to do so.

 

[Animal34343]

You have seen that he routinely sets up in Tampa with all these lizards in "pretty bad shape, malnourished, crammed into one cage lying on top of one another, skin and bones, lying in feces with an awful smell" and then based on this decided to purchase a pair of Uroplatus timbriatus geckos from him? Something just doesn't seem right with that.

I had only ever been to one show prior to this purchase and I don't even remember if he was there, I didn't know who he was or payed any attention to his setup. I've payed more attention to his setups since this happened.

 

[Animal34343]

I wish I still had my emails from that transaction as well because those have been edited such as:
"hey Mike, this is Jake writing back with some more bad news. I just found the second Fulbright's dead. I switched calcium with no D3 and lowered the temps some."

Fulbrights? I have no clue what that is, so why would I type it? Is it a snake, because I don't deal with snakes. I understand mixing up names between two animals that both start with F's, if you know what they are. So, Mike, can you enlighten me as to what a Fulbrights is since you seem to know and therefore mixed them up when changing my emails? By the way we never once talked on the phone, "They are so big and fat and healthy", that just sounds made up. I never came because I had basically given up and didn't really feel like driving and hour and a half to get more sick animals and just end up watching them die in front of me also.

 

[Ballroom]

Brandon. Got any others to colaborate your story about poor animals and bad set ups in Tampa. I have been doing that show for 6+ years only ever missed one. I have had 2000+ people visit my booth at every show both spring and fall.. Where are the others that think My animals are of poor quality and My animals are sick and all that you claim???. Rather It appears you had a bad experience with trying out a new Species and want to blame someone for your losses instead of just fessing up to the facts that you took the responsibility to take care of WC animals . You said they arrived great. You know my guarantee. When they arrived you even said they were eating.. I replaced one after 3 days . Then offered again after 10 days but you did not come out to get it.... I am sorry to be harsh. But grow up and take responsibility for your own decisions.
P.S. I will be at The Spring Tampa show again in march. Please feel free to bring a camera to photograph my animals I am sure they will as always in great shape.

 

[Ballroom]

Brandon that is a copied and pasted e-mail.. With spell check to correct spelling eerors. Sorry I must have missed that one.
Spell check on fauna is the only editing done.
Grasping at straws are we???

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

Hey Michael,

Have you heard anything else from Erik yet? I am still waiting for the collections manager...

 

[Ballroom]

Nope I guess he is just going to try to sue me or Just hope this goes away.. After All I have been warned and given an ultimatum of a week by Erik to remove this post... The ball is in his court. But I doubt they(he) will do the right thing as he has had months to do that already.

 

[spataro87]

Michael

During a random search on Boelen's Pythons I came across this thread. Just wanted to ad I have purchased Boelen's hatchlings off of Michael during the time when the deal in question occurred. My hatchlings as well as several others that I am aware of are doing fantastic. While Boelen's pythons have been challenging in the past this undeserved reputation developed due to the fact that the animals being imported were wild-caught. With that being said hatchlings are not much different from other morelia species with the exception for cooler temps to mimic their natural habitat. I have also purchased other high dollar animals from Michael without any problems, in my experience and the others I know who purchased these hatchlings this is the first issue I have ever heard of. He clearly made the buyer aware that the was an issue, yet they still decided on the purchase, therefore they are responsible for the payment. This is just good business practice, we are all aware of the risks in this hobby, LIVE ANIMALS HAVE ISSUES AND DIE! The sooner you except this fact the better off you will be in this hobby. Even the EXPERTS suffer death within their collections.

Marc
boelenspythons.com

 

[ravensgait]

Nope I guess he is just going to try to sue me or Just hope this goes away.. After All I have been warned and given an ultimatum of a week by Erik to remove this post... The ball is in his court. But I doubt they(he) will do the right thing as he has had months to do that already.

Guess he doesn't realise that you can't remove or change your post here even if you wanted to. But then the same goes for that wonderful post that ended "CFRAR Staff" ..

Randy

 

[Wolfy-hound]

Video of two snakes and one tankw ith some sort of lizard at Micheal's booth at a show..
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v660/wolfy-hound/Videos/?action=view&current=MichealSnakes.flv

Video of snakes(I know the accusation was about LIZARDS, but I'm more interested in snakes, so I videoed snakes, sorry...)
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v...ction=view&current=MichealNeilBallPythons.flv

All of the enclosures I've seen at Micheal's tables have ALWAYS been clean. The animals look healthy in general(although I'm no expert on lizards).
In the first video, you can see two apparently fat lizards in a clean enclosure.
I wish I had more video, but I tend to take shots of snakes. All my dealings with Micheal Cole have been great, and all the animals I've ever bought were good, ate well, and were healthy.
I hope you get your funds/animals.

 

[Ballroom]

Seems as if a lot of people are coming out about bad business dealings with Mr. Stoops.
Just for everyones knowledge. If you also need to file fraud charges on Mr. Stoops or have a claim against him for either non payment of a debt or another issue in need of attention,
You can contact the AZ police in his county at 602-878-1746 But you will need to file a report locally first and have your sheriffs office follow up with the AZ police... If you need his or the facility address .. Let me know.