Info Erik Strait, aka Eriks Reptiles, Parasites and Misrepresentation

[BlooHiss]

I would never stick it in the fridge without it being in a sealed baggie first, lol! Thought that was obvious, I should have mentioned.

What I mean by check his collection is... how is this transmitted? Are the geckos a secondary host? Primary? Did they come from the gut of feeders? Do they even shed in the feces or do they complete their life cycle some other way? We don't know, do we? We don't know how it is spread or what it is or how the reptile was infected.

If someone is going to post an informative post regarding a disease or parasite it should be followed up and not half way done, IMO. While it's obvious the gecko was infected, we don't know by what or how it was acquired. What if this parasite doesn't normally take a gecko host and there is no real probability that it can spread to others housed in the same cage or within quarantine?

We'll never know. Either do a necropsy at home and be prepared to harden yourself for the reality of sending it out upon discovering something odd or leave it for the vet to do.

 

[Chris Kennard]

I would never stick it in the fridge without it being in a sealed baggie first, lol! Thought that was obvious, I should have mentioned.

What I mean by check his collection is... how is this transmitted? Are the geckos a secondary host? Primary? Did they come from the gut of feeders? Do they even shed in the feces or do they complete their life cycle some other way? We don't know, do we? We don't know how it is spread or what it is or how the reptile was infected.

If someone is going to post an informative post regarding a disease or parasite it should be followed up and not half way done, IMO. While it's obvious the gecko was infected, we don't know by what or how it was acquired. What if this parasite doesn't normally take a gecko host and there is no real probability that it can spread to others housed in the same cage or within quarantine?

We'll never know. Either do a necropsy at home and be prepared to harden yourself for the reality of sending it out upon discovering something odd or leave it for the vet to do.

Great points! I do think it's obvious that the infestation was advanced before the OP aqcuired the animal. Knowing that Erik has poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into his hobby, I truly hope that this collection is safe from this hard to detect worm. You may be right and this parasite may be infecting an uncommon host. I wonder if there is a way to investigate parasitic worms from the area the infected animal is indigenous to. Worms that don't use the digestive system to thrive.

 

[Lorraine]

To be honest, I wanted it out of my house as soon as I was done taking pictures. I had worms crawling all over my gloves and the paper towel, and they rapidly spreading to the kitchen counter. I ran everything out to the dumpster, and spent the next hour bleaching everything it had touched. I've since read that some of the lung worms are transmittable to humans, so I don't think I was exactly overreacting. Again, according to my many conversations with Dr. Greek, it was most likely a type of internal parasite, there was no way it could have been maggots in a freshly dead gecko, and worms inside the chest cavity aren't that uncommon in WC animals. The problem is these were not WC, they were CB.

As for my accusations, Erik bought this other breeders collection in either June or July. In July he started listing a couple of hundred Uroplatus on the classifieds, first large numbers of sikorae, and then the other species, saying he needed to prune back his collection. I believe the term for this is "flipping". He never mentioned that he had recently acquired these, he told me he had gotten them from importers and they had been in captivity around a year. That led me to believe he had gotten them when they were imported a year ago.

Why did I go back for repeat business after the first geckos had Coccidea and Flagellates? My bf had asked if they were treated, he responded that he left that up to his importer. I figured that was an honest answer, and that I should treat them as fresh WC's, seeing as most importers don't do more than just a shot gun round of Panacur. In other words, I knew they would have bugs. I however did not expect an $800 CB pair of geckos to have them. Here's that email, it was in my bf's inbox.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 2:50 PM, [email protected] <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I tried giving you a call, feel free to call me at 303-905-1592<3039051592>
> .
>
> Yes, I do have some CB and LTC sikorae available. The only reason I am
> selling some is because I have held back to many sikorae. I currently have
> and breed 11 species of Uroplatus, not including aff animals. So I have a
> very full plate. I have over 600 individual Uroplatus, not including other
> species, and held back so many animals I just don't have room for them all.
>
> I actualy wrote the cover article for the June issue of Reptiles Magazine
> on how to breed fimbriatus. I have a very extensive background in breeding
> Uroplatus as well as numerous other species.
>
> Some have been in captivity for around a year and some 6+ months. The
> smaller animals were imported as young babies and I have grown them up, and
> some were hatched from eggs that import females dropped. Some are also
> proven. However the CB pair is only about 4-5 months old. I have background
> for every animal. So I can provide that upon request/sale.
>
> None are burnt out breeders. When I got them from my importer friends, I
> made sure to buy smaller animals to ensure I wasn't buying old imports.
>
> They were treated by my importer. Random fecals came up clean upon
> recieving the animals into my facility. All are thriving so individual
> fecals were not performed.
>
> If you have any further questions feel free to email or call.
>
> I also have some henkeli, fimbriatus, lineatus, and phantasticus for sale
> at the moment if interested.
>
> Thanks Erik

 

[Wilomn]

I wonder if there is a way to investigate parasitic worms from the area the infected animal is indigenous to. Worms that don't use the digestive system to thrive.

Indeed I wonder if anyone anywhere at anytime has ever done a parasitic study of Madagascar reptiles. Hmmmm, who would know the answer to such a wonderful and candid question? If only if only if only it weren't so hard to look this type of information up.

I wonder too if lung worms, which those certainly looked like to me, infect the digestive or respiratory systems? Seems if it's respiratory then the difficulty in diagnosing them is understandable. Of course, if these lung worms are in the digestive tract then finding them or their eggs should be no problem.

kennard, you surely must know the answers to these questions. You've certainly been beating around the bush about it. Please, enlighten us.

I know Bonnie. Personally. I saw the video the day she made it. I chatted with her about them. It happened as she said it did.

Who needs an extra male when you purchase a pair with every intent to breed them? It's not a wonderful deal or the seller being a stellar guy by "letting" her keep it. She needs it like another hole in the head.

I don't think the seller is a bad guy, but I think he thinks he's kinda slick. That I don't like so much. The buyer has done nothing but inform the reader of her experience. She thought it was BOI worthy, so it was.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Indeed I wonder if anyone anywhere at anytime has ever done a parasitic study of Madagascar reptiles. Hmmmm, who would know the answer to such a wonderful and candid question? If only if only if only it weren't so hard to look this type of information up.

I wonder too if lung worms, which those certainly looked like to me, infect the digestive or respiratory systems? Seems if it's respiratory then the difficulty in diagnosing them is understandable. Of course, if these lung worms are in the digestive tract then finding them or their eggs should be no problem.

kennard, you surely must know the answers to these questions. You've certainly been beating around the bush about it. Please, enlighten us.

I know Bonnie. Personally. I saw the video the day she made it. I chatted with her about them. It happened as she said it did.

Who needs an extra male when you purchase a pair with every intent to breed them? It's not a wonderful deal or the seller being a stellar guy by "letting" her keep it. She needs it like another hole in the head.

I don't think the seller is a bad guy, but I think he thinks he's kinda slick. That I don't like so much. The buyer has done nothing but inform the reader of her experience. She thought it was BOI worthy, so it was.

Interesting post. I am very proud of you for knowing Bonnie. I see your starvation for attention hasn't changed at all through the years. You have been chomping at the bit to use your unimpressive "wit?", after waiting so long, for a seizable moment to show your self proclaimed intellect in the hopes of still attempting to be Wyatt Earp. But as usual I digress. Unfortunately for you, I must strip you of trying to be Bonnie's savior here with regard to your laim attempt to one-up me, by agreeing with you. Bonnie is the victim here without a doubt. The seller is more than slick. Sorry to disappoint you. Better luck next time.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Huh-whu?

Indeed I wonder if anyone anywhere at anytime has ever done a parasitic study of Madagascar reptiles. Hmmmm, who would know the answer to such a wonderful and candid question? If only if only if only it weren't so hard to look this type of information up.

I wonder too if lung worms, which those certainly looked like to me, infect the digestive or respiratory systems? Seems if it's respiratory then the difficulty in diagnosing them is understandable. Of course, if these lung worms are in the digestive tract then finding them or their eggs should be no problem.

kennard, you surely must know the answers to these questions. You've certainly been beating around the bush about it. Please, enlighten us.

I know Bonnie. Personally. I saw the video the day she made it. I chatted with her about them. It happened as she said it did.

Who needs an extra male when you purchase a pair with every intent to breed them? It's not a wonderful deal or the seller being a stellar guy by "letting" her keep it. She needs it like another hole in the head.

I don't think the seller is a bad guy, but I think he thinks he's kinda slick. That I don't like so much. The buyer has done nothing but inform the reader of her experience. She thought it was BOI worthy, so it was.

I have to wonder why you waited so long to post your awesome knowledge to me instead of going to bat for Bonnie by addressing the seller. Interesting. I am sure the seller would have been interested in your lungworm theory. For what it's worth, Bonnie, I think your thrad is definitely BOI worthy and wish you the best of luck in the future!

 

[Chris Kennard]

I meant...

"thread"

 

[Chris Kennard]

One last thing...

If anyone does a search on Wes' posts, they will find his usualmanipulatory pleas for the patrons to put me on their ignore list. He even gave specific directions as to how. Just wondering why Wes commands that people do as he says, not as he does.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

As someone who knows nothing about the species in question not knows either the subject or the OP at all I feel the strong urge to toss out a few observations after reading this thread.

Anyone who states that this is not a Bad Guy thread is simply wrong. Placing a lightbulb instead of a red X in the title doesn't change that. The title makes it a Bad Guy thread by default. If it was posted as a Good Guy thread would anyone be arguing that? Let's be reasonable.

There are a total of 5 threads on this site about Erik dating back a few years. All are positive with the exception of this one. Not conclusive but definitely indicative of someone who has been doing it right for at least ten years.

The OP had one successful transaction on multiple animals with Erik and a second transaction with multiple animals as well. One dies under bizarre circumstances. A refund equal to far more than the cost of that animal was willingly and promptly given. The OP has not made a single comment regarding any current issues with the remaining animals.

The Seller has responded professionally with well thought out responses and has explained and refuted virtually every personal point the OP cast aspersions on. His emails to her were not evasive but were polite and also professional. I fail to see how the comments of "slick" are appropriate.

To the the new member who has stated no less than 5 times that the seller should have offered a complete refund.....he did better than that. The OP has a male she has not stated has any current issues. The male cost her approximately $15 plus shipping. She has the option of purchasing a single female elsewhere and coming out a few hundred ahead on a pair. I would call that a far more than fair resolution to the issue.

Now on to the worms:

In 20 plus years of breeding and keeping reptiles (all snakes) I have personally seen three different scenarios in which ordinary maggots. (which these almost certainly are) have infested live and, otherwise healthy reptiles.

1. On a half dozen occasions at least i have seen maggots infest through the unclosed umbilicus of a freshly hatched animal.

2. A close friend and breeder had a large adult bullsnake become infested, albeit primarily in the threat and mouth, due to a relatively minor case of mouth rot that was not readily visible

3. A Juvie Burmese i rescued ten years or so ago had a small woulnd on his ventral side close to the vent. In the space of ten days, the maggots hatched and not only infested the wound, they actually infested the vent as well.

In short, to those who have stated unequivocally that maggots will not infest a living animal...you are simply incorrect.


While it is quite possible that the animal was shipped with this issue, it's also quite possible that the infestation could have occurred post delivery. 18 days is more than enough time for maggot eggs to be laid and hatch. I am not at all casting blame here. It seems to me that without a lot more information there is simply no one to point the finger at. One animal out of several died in a truly bizarre manner. No one really has any idea why.

That's pretty much it in two sentences.

Gotta agree with Kellie on this one

In my opinion, without that additional information and given the sellers immediate positive handling of the situation, this thread really was uncalled for.

Feel free to disagree

 

[Pasodama]

I have not looked at the videos (and am not sure I want to) but just wanted to say that it is incorrect that maggots cannot infect (live within) a live person/animal.
Fact is that maggots are able infect (live on or within) a living being.

 

[Pasodama]

However, one point of note: The minute you advertise your animals for sale in Reptiles magazine, you're no longer a "hobbyist"

You can earn $$ and still be considered a "hobbyist".

 

[Chris Kennard]

As someone who knows nothing about the species in question not knows either the subject or the OP at all I feel the strong urge to toss out a few observations after reading this thread.

Anyone who states that this is not a Bad Guy thread is simply wrong. Placing a lightbulb instead of a red X in the title doesn't change that. The title makes it a Bad Guy thread by default. If it was posted as a Good Guy thread would anyone be arguing that? Let's be reasonable.

There are a total of 5 threads on this site about Erik dating back a few years. All are positive with the exception of this one. Not conclusive but definitely indicative of someone who has been doing it right for at least ten years.

The OP had one successful transaction on multiple animals with Erik and a second transaction with multiple animals as well. One dies under bizarre circumstances. A refund equal to far more than the cost of that animal was willingly and promptly given. The OP has not made a single comment regarding any current issues with the remaining animals.

The Seller has responded professionally with well thought out responses and has explained and refuted virtually every personal point the OP cast aspersions on. His emails to her were not evasive but were polite and also professional. I fail to see how the comments of "slick" are appropriate.

To the the new member who has stated no less than 5 times that the seller should have offered a complete refund.....he did better than that. The OP has a male she has not stated has any current issues. The male cost her approximately $15 plus shipping. She has the option of purchasing a single female elsewhere and coming out a few hundred ahead on a pair. I would call that a far more than fair resolution to the issue.

Now on to the worms:

In 20 plus years of breeding and keeping reptiles (all snakes) I have personally seen three different scenarios in which ordinary maggots. (which these almost certainly are) have infested live and, otherwise healthy reptiles.

1. On a half dozen occasions at least i have seen maggots infest through the unclosed umbilicus of a freshly hatched animal.

2. A close friend and breeder had a large adult bullsnake become infested, albeit primarily in the threat and mouth, due to a relatively minor case of mouth rot that was not readily visible

3. A Juvie Burmese i rescued ten years or so ago had a small woulnd on his ventral side close to the vent. In the space of ten days, the maggots hatched and not only infested the wound, they actually infested the vent as well.

In short, to those who have stated unequivocally that maggots will not infest a living animal...you are simply incorrect.


While it is quite possible that the animal was shipped with this issue, it's also quite possible that the infestation could have occurred post delivery. 18 days is more than enough time for maggot eggs to be laid and hatch. I am not at all casting blame here. It seems to me that without a lot more information there is simply no one to point the finger at. One animal out of several died in a truly bizarre manner. No one really has any idea why.

That's pretty much it in two sentences.

Gotta agree with Kellie on this one

In my opinion, without that additional information and given the sellers immediate positive handling of the situation, this thread really was uncalled for.

Feel free to disagree

Be reasonable? Okay, if you say so. First youj say "Anyone who states that this is not a Bad Guy thread is simply wrong. Placing a lightbulb instead of a red X in the title doesn't change that. The title makes it a Bad Guy thread by default. If it was posted as a Good Guy thread would anyone be arguing that?" I guess the owner of this sight had no business adding the lightbulb as an option even with his extensive experience and knowledge here. It obviously serves a purpose that is not conducive to your objective here. Then you say..."There are a total of 5 threads on this site about Erik dating back a few years. All are positive with the exception of this one. Not conclusive but definitely indicative of someone who has been doing it right for at least ten years."...I can show you positive threads that you've been involved with where a well known, established, stand up guy has been proven otherwise. Lastly, you say..."In 20 plus years of breeding and keeping reptiles (all snakes) I have personally seen three different scenarios in which ordinary maggots. (which these almost certainly are) have infested live and, otherwise healthy reptiles." I have seen plenty of maggots as well, and have never seen them stretch or elongate like that. Those are not maggots in my opinion.

 

[KelliH]

As someone who knows nothing about the species in question not knows either the subject or the OP at all I feel the strong urge to toss out a few observations after reading this thread.

Anyone who states that this is not a Bad Guy thread is simply wrong. Placing a lightbulb instead of a red X in the title doesn't change that. The title makes it a Bad Guy thread by default. If it was posted as a Good Guy thread would anyone be arguing that? Let's be reasonable.

There are a total of 5 threads on this site about Erik dating back a few years. All are positive with the exception of this one. Not conclusive but definitely indicative of someone who has been doing it right for at least ten years.

The OP had one successful transaction on multiple animals with Erik and a second transaction with multiple animals as well. One dies under bizarre circumstances. A refund equal to far more than the cost of that animal was willingly and promptly given. The OP has not made a single comment regarding any current issues with the remaining animals.

The Seller has responded professionally with well thought out responses and has explained and refuted virtually every personal point the OP cast aspersions on. His emails to her were not evasive but were polite and also professional. I fail to see how the comments of "slick" are appropriate.

To the the new member who has stated no less than 5 times that the seller should have offered a complete refund.....he did better than that. The OP has a male she has not stated has any current issues. The male cost her approximately $15 plus shipping. She has the option of purchasing a single female elsewhere and coming out a few hundred ahead on a pair. I would call that a far more than fair resolution to the issue.

Now on to the worms:

In 20 plus years of breeding and keeping reptiles (all snakes) I have personally seen three different scenarios in which ordinary maggots. (which these almost certainly are) have infested live and, otherwise healthy reptiles.

1. On a half dozen occasions at least i have seen maggots infest through the unclosed umbilicus of a freshly hatched animal.

2. A close friend and breeder had a large adult bullsnake become infested, albeit primarily in the threat and mouth, due to a relatively minor case of mouth rot that was not readily visible

3. A Juvie Burmese i rescued ten years or so ago had a small woulnd on his ventral side close to the vent. In the space of ten days, the maggots hatched and not only infested the wound, they actually infested the vent as well.

In short, to those who have stated unequivocally that maggots will not infest a living animal...you are simply incorrect.


While it is quite possible that the animal was shipped with this issue, it's also quite possible that the infestation could have occurred post delivery. 18 days is more than enough time for maggot eggs to be laid and hatch. I am not at all casting blame here. It seems to me that without a lot more information there is simply no one to point the finger at. One animal out of several died in a truly bizarre manner. No one really has any idea why.

That's pretty much it in two sentences.

Gotta agree with Kellie on this one

In my opinion, without that additional information and given the sellers immediate positive handling of the situation, this thread really was uncalled for.

Feel free to disagree

A voice of reason. Thank you. I was beginning to think there were no others left here.

 

[Chris Kennard]

"definitely indicative of someone who has been doing it right for at least ten years." You mean since he was twelve years old? Doing what right?

 

[Chris Kennard]

A voice of reason. Thank you. I was beginning to think there were no others left here.

A convenient voice of reason for you and your buddy.

 

[KelliH]

Be reasonable? Okay, if you say so. First youj say "Anyone who states that this is not a Bad Guy thread is simply wrong. Placing a lightbulb instead of a red X in the title doesn't change that. The title makes it a Bad Guy thread by default. If it was posted as a Good Guy thread would anyone be arguing that?" I guess the owner of this sight had no business adding the lightbulb as an option even with his extensive experience and knowledge here. It obviously serves a purpose that is not conducive to your objective here. Then you say..."There are a total of 5 threads on this site about Erik dating back a few years. All are positive with the exception of this one. Not conclusive but definitely indicative of someone who has been doing it right for at least ten years."...I can show you positive threads that you've been involved with where a well known, established, stand up guy has been proven otherwise. Lastly, you say..."In 20 plus years of breeding and keeping reptiles (all snakes) I have personally seen three different scenarios in which ordinary maggots. (which these almost certainly are) have infested live and, otherwise healthy reptiles." I have seen plenty of maggots as well, and have never seen them stretch or elongate like that. Those are not maggots in my opinion.

They look (from what I can see of them in the not so good videos and images) just like carrion fly maggots or phorid fly maggots. Or what I call "crap flies". Their life cycle is incredibly speedy.

 

[KelliH]

A convenient voice of reason for you and your buddy.

Erik is not my buddy; he's not my friend.

He is someone I have done business 3 or 4 times over the past decade.

 

[bobtard]

A voice of reason. Thank you. I was beginning to think there were no others left here.

I'd consider 99.9% of Fauna to be completely insane. It makes me rage.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Be reasonable? Okay, if you say so. First youj say "Anyone who states that this is not a Bad Guy thread is simply wrong. Placing a lightbulb instead of a red X in the title doesn't change that. The title makes it a Bad Guy thread by default. If it was posted as a Good Guy thread would anyone be arguing that?" I guess the owner of this sight had no business adding the lightbulb as an option even with his extensive experience and knowledge here. It obviously serves a purpose that is not conducive to your objective here. Then you say..."There are a total of 5 threads on this site about Erik dating back a few years. All are positive with the exception of this one. Not conclusive but definitely indicative of someone who has been doing it right for at least ten years."...I can show you positive threads that you've been involved with where a well known, established, stand up guy has been proven otherwise. Lastly, you say..."In 20 plus years of breeding and keeping reptiles (all snakes) I have personally seen three different scenarios in which ordinary maggots. (which these almost certainly are) have infested live and, otherwise healthy reptiles." I have seen plenty of maggots as well, and have never seen them stretch or elongate like that. Those are not maggots in my opinion.

Chris

Why you seem to want to take this personally is beyond me but I'll answer your comments.

If the Title of the thread were "Erik Sold Me Sick animals and Totally Screwed Me Over" and it was posted as an inquiry or a good guy thread would you actually consider it such? I'll go out on a limb and suggest that Rich probably intends for the symbol to match the tenor of the thread. If I am wrong I am sure he will point it out

My comment about the other threads was pretty plain. It's an indicator of past good business...not a guarantee of it. Nothing is ever 100% in this arena. You look at the evidence you have and weigh it

There is a young man down here who has been operating his own company breeding and selling Various Species of Chameleons for over 12 years in Florida. He just turned 20. He and his Mom (who has no knowledge if the animals at all) have been working local shows for years. He was a member of our Herp Society at 7. A participating member I have no problem believing that Erik has been involved in breeding since he was 12. Kellie stated she has had transactions with him ten years ago. I have no reason to disbelieve her


Your opinion is that they are not maggots. My opinion as well as others is that they are. that's why it's an opinion and not a proven fact.

Nothing personal here Chris. You and i agree quite often. Just not in this case.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Chris

Why you seem to want to take this personally is beyond me but I'll answer your comments.

If the Title of the thread were "Erik Sold Me Sick animals and Totally Screwed Me Over" and it was posted as an inquiry or a good guy thread would you actually consider it such? I'll go out on a limb and suggest that Rich probably intends for the symbol to match the tenor of the thread. If I am wrong I am sure he will point it out

My comment about the other threads was pretty plain. It's an indicator of past good business...not a guarantee of it. Nothing is ever 100% in this arena. You look at the evidence you have and weigh it

There is a young man down here who has been operating his own company breeding and selling Various Species of Chameleons for over 12 years in Florida. He just turned 20. He and his Mom (who has no knowledge if the animals at all) have been working local shows for years. He was a member of our Herp Society at 7. A participating member I have no problem believing that Erik has been involved in breeding since he was 12. Kellie stated she has had transactions with him ten years ago. I have no reason to disbelieve her


Your opinion is that they are not maggots. My opinion as well as others is that they are. that's why it's an opinion and not a proven fact.

Nothing personal here Chris. You and i agree quite often. Just not in this case.

I am not sure I trust everything or anything that Erik says due to his seemingly fantasitic abilities and incredible fundage. I appreciate your opinion and respectfully disagree. Another case where I hope I am wrong, and it wouldn't be the first or last John. Knowing what I know from this thread, I personally would think twice before doing business with Erik. Too many animals, not enough time to screen those for sale. The ones for sale should be checked by him before letting them go. These aren't cheap anoles. If he is willing to "pour hundreds of thousands" of dollars into his collection, he can certainly afford a vet to confirm a sellable animal, yes? Perhaps he should scale down a bit. By the way, I have agreed with you in some respects, past and present.