Info Erik Strait, aka Eriks Reptiles, Parasites and Misrepresentation

[sakasuvaki]

I've read over this thread a couple times and can't seem to figure out who "Derek" is. What is Derek's last name or business title? This could be my mistake that I can't find it...

Thank you.

 

[SteveinIL]

I never was able to have the male tested for parasites, if you look in the emails, I told Erik the feces were too runny to collect for testing. I only ever found urates and maybe a tiny smear of fecal matter rubbed in. After the female passed, I decided the safest course was to dose him for worms and anything else he might have come in contact with. I hate shotgun dosing, but in this instance, I felt it was safer than leaving him untreated. The problem with treating worms in the chest cavity according to my vet, is that since they can't be excreted through the digestive tract once you've killed them off, they all rot inside the animal and release toxins. So far he seems to be hanging in there, but then he was never as lethargic as the female was.

hmm am I the only one that sees this as indicating there's an issue with the male? I don't know how you handle your collections but "hanging in there" isn't exactly a clean bill of health. unless runny feces are normal for this species that would generally indicate some kind of illness

 

[BlooHiss]

Hmn, no update on the male? No information on his condition? Has he been vetted to assure he doesn't have what the female does?

 

[rcarichter]

I've read over this thread a couple times and can't seem to figure out who "Derek" is. What is Derek's last name or business title? This could be my mistake that I can't find it...

Thank you.

I would think it would be Derek Dunlop, of DDReptiles. Great guy, largely focused in crested geckos, but dabbles in odds & ends. Erik bought some of his uros from Derek.


Noelle

 

[sakasuvaki]

I would think it would be Derek Dunlop, of DDReptiles. Great guy, largely focused in crested geckos, but dabbles in odds & ends. Erik bought some of his uros from Derek.

Thank you for answering me! I had to go over the possibility in my mind that his supplier might have been the one that had some sort of parasite in his collection from the start.

Though I really don't know for sure and probably won't ever, I personally highly doubt Derek (if this really is Derek Dunlop we are speaking about) would have parasites in his collection based on how he handles himself professionally in this hobby. If he had parasites (obviously very common for WC imports) I would believe he would do whatever it took to get rid of them first - especially before selling. This is just my opinion, of course.

 

[Bad Obsession Reptiles]

To be honest, I wanted it out of my house as soon as I was done taking pictures. I had worms crawling all over my gloves and the paper towel, and they rapidly spreading to the kitchen counter. I ran everything out to the dumpster, and spent the next hour bleaching everything it had touched. I've since read that some of the lung worms are transmittable to humans, so I don't think I was exactly overreacting. Again, according to my many conversations with Dr. Greek, it was most likely a type of internal parasite, there was no way it could have been maggots in a freshly dead gecko, and worms inside the chest cavity aren't that uncommon in WC animals. The problem is these were not WC, they were CB.

As for my accusations, Erik bought this other breeders collection in either June or July. In July he started listing a couple of hundred Uroplatus on the classifieds, first large numbers of sikorae, and then the other species, saying he needed to prune back his collection. I believe the term for this is "flipping". He never mentioned that he had recently acquired these, he told me he had gotten them from importers and they had been in captivity around a year. That led me to believe he had gotten them when they were imported a year ago.

Why did I go back for repeat business after the first geckos had Coccidea and Flagellates? My bf had asked if they were treated, he responded that he left that up to his importer. I figured that was an honest answer, and that I should treat them as fresh WC's, seeing as most importers don't do more than just a shot gun round of Panacur. In other words, I knew they would have bugs. I however did not expect an $800 CB pair of geckos to have them. Here's that email, it was in my bf's inbox.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 2:50 PM, [email protected] <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I tried giving you a call, feel free to call me at 303-905-1592<3039051592>
> .
>
> Yes, I do have some CB and LTC sikorae available. The only reason I am
> selling some is because I have held back to many sikorae. I currently have
> and breed 11 species of Uroplatus, not including aff animals. So I have a
> very full plate. I have over 600 individual Uroplatus, not including other
> species, and held back so many animals I just don't have room for them all.
>
> I actualy wrote the cover article for the June issue of Reptiles Magazine
> on how to breed fimbriatus. I have a very extensive background in breeding
> Uroplatus as well as numerous other species.
>
> Some have been in captivity for around a year and some 6+ months. The
> smaller animals were imported as young babies and I have grown them up, and
> some were hatched from eggs that import females dropped. Some are also
> proven. However the CB pair is only about 4-5 months old. I have background
> for every animal. So I can provide that upon request/sale.
>
> None are burnt out breeders. When I got them from my importer friends, I
> made sure to buy smaller animals to ensure I wasn't buying old imports.
>
> They were treated by my importer. Random fecals came up clean upon
> recieving the animals into my facility. All are thriving so individual
> fecals were not performed.
>
> If you have any further questions feel free to email or call.
>
> I also have some henkeli, fimbriatus, lineatus, and phantasticus for sale
> at the moment if interested.
>
> Thanks Erik

You seemed adamant that Erik stated he does not do fecals on his animals, but he told you in this e-mail that he does...

 

[Chris Kennard]

You seemed adamant that Erik stated he does not do fecals on his animals, but he told you in this e-mail that he does...

He said "random". Why even bother? If five animals out of a hundred or more are sick, and you perform "random" fecals on, let's say, ten, or even twenty, are you really able to gurantee a healthy snake to a buyer based on the notion that if a certain percentage of them are okay, they must all be okay?

 

[Chris Kennard]

sorry, meant to say "guarantee"

 

[FosterHerpetological]

He said "random". Why even bother? If five animals out of a hundred or more are sick, and you perform "random" fecals on, let's say, ten, or even twenty, are you really able to gurantee a healthy snake to a buyer based on the notion that if a certain percentage of them are okay, they must all be okay?

Very good point.

 

[Bad Obsession Reptiles]

He said "random". Why even bother? If five animals out of a hundred or more are sick, and you perform "random" fecals on, let's say, ten, or even twenty, are you really able to gurantee a healthy snake to a buyer based on the notion that if a certain percentage of them are okay, they must all be okay?

Random samples are actually very common in the scientific world. If you're sampling say, Uroplatus in the wild to get an idea of their population numbers, do you think you will be able to count every single one? No way. So why even bother? You instead can take random samples in random areas and get an idea of a population that way.

No, your cannot guarantee that none have parasites out of a random sample. But you can get an idea. Hopefully he would do these fecals on a large percentage, but you'll have to ask him how he figures that out based on how many he gets. And he was up front about this fact.

I just feel like the OP has been trying to peg Erik as a liar, and I at least have not seen that yet. She tried to pick apart his background and current living situations but the lies she has claimed so far have not been true. You can be angry about the worms, I understand that, but don't try to make him seem like a worse person by lying. It doesn't make you look any better.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Random samples are actually very common in the scientific world. If you're sampling say, Uroplatus in the wild to get an idea of their population numbers, do you think you will be able to count every single one? No way. So why even bother? You instead can take random samples in random areas and get an idea of a population that way.

No, your cannot guarantee that none have parasites out of a random sample. But you can get an idea. Hopefully he would do these fecals on a large percentage, but you'll have to ask him how he figures that out based on how many he gets. And he was up front about this fact.

I just feel like the OP has been trying to peg Erik as a liar, and I at least have not seen that yet. She tried to pick apart his background and current living situations but the lies she has claimed so far have not been true. You can be angry about the worms, I understand that, but don't try to make him seem like a worse person by lying. It doesn't make you look any better.

An "idea" is a far cry from a "guarantee". I don't need to ask him anything. I certainly wouldn't buy from anyone that can't guarantee a clean animal because he hasn't the time to screen them all. Noone has proven that the OPs claims have not been true. Erik has been ducking and dodging many questions which doesn't make him "look any better". What zoos???

 

[EriksReptiles]

Hello,


Sorry for the lack of responses for the past few days. I had a lot more family come to town for Thanksgiving than I was told. So it has been quite hectic around here.



Anyway,

To the people who pointed out about throwing out an animal. I also do list in my terms that if something happened to the animal, keep the body as proof. Which I overlooked and gave her a refund. Had that been the case, I would have been more than willing to pay to ship it back to me, and have a certified vet necropsy the animal and see what the worms in question were.


Bonnie – I had listed some of my Uroplatus for sale FAR before I got Derek’s animals. Simply making some more room for them. The sikorae you bought were never from him, but were from an importer friend as I told you in the email you posted. That email (the one you posted in post #63) was in response to yours (your boyfriends) email about some LTC sikorae. Which was answered correctly as those sikorae you bought were LTC from an importer friend, It was not in relation to any other species we had discussed.


First email from you and your boyfriend:

Erik,

My girlfriend and I have been looking to expand our breeding colony of U. sikorae by adding a pair and I noticed that you had listed some LTC pairs and trios on Fauna. I was wondering why you were getting rid of them and how long they have been in captivity; since we are looking to expand our breeding stock, we wanted to make sure that we would not be getting burned out breeders. Also, I was curious if they've been treated for parasites. If you could let me know about this and any additional information that you think I should know about these geckos, we'd love to be able to do business with you.

Thanks,

--
Justin Bonner


My response:

Hello,

I tried giving you a call, feel free to call me at 303-905-1592.

Yes, I do have some CB and LTC sikorae available. The only reason I am selling some is because I have held back to many sikorae. I currently have and breed 11 species of Uroplatus, not including aff animals. So I have a very full plate. I have over 600 individual Uroplatus, not including other species, and held back so many animals I just don't have room for them all.

I actualy wrote the cover article for the June issue of Reptiles Magazine on how to breed fimbriatus. I have a very extensive background in breeding Uroplatus as well as numerous other species.

Some have been in captivity for around a year and some 6+ months. The smaller animals were imported as young babies and I have grown them up, and some were hatched from eggs that import females dropped. Some are also proven. However the CB pair is only about 4-5 months old. I have background for every animal. So I can provide that upon request/sale.

None are burnt out breeders. When I got them from my importer friends, I made sure to buy smaller animals to ensure I wasn't buying old imports.

They were treated by my importer. Random fecals came up clean upon recieving the animals into my facility. All are thriving so individual fecals were not performed.

If you have any further questions feel free to email or call.

I also have some henkeli, fimbriatus, lineatus, and phantasticus for sale at the moment if interested.

Thanks Erik


Your response:

Erik,

Glad to hear from you, sorry I missed your phone call, I was helping my girlfriend in our greenhouse.

All of that information sounds absolutely wonderful. We are looking for an adult LTC pair, so if you have more background info on the pair that you listed on Fauna, that would be great. Also, if you have any other LTC pairs for sale, we would love to hear more about them as well.

Also, we are looking to expand our collection of Uroplatus species in the near future and my girlfriend was wondering how much you were charging for the phantasticus that you mentioned at the end of your email.

I greatly appreciate the timely response to my questions and truly hope that we get to do business together.

Thanks,
Justin

-- To me, that shows he acknowledged what I said about treating them, where they came from, ect when he said "All of that information sounds absolutely wonderful." If he did not convey that information to you, I’m sorry. But I simply cannot control that.


Suncoast – Thank you for the input. I appreciate the input about the maggots in living animals. I have only briefly heard of it happening but never seen it in person.



Chris – Yes, random. However Bonnie clearly stated I said I never do. THAT is what I am trying to show. I clearly do not “never” do fecals, as she said. I am just confused as to why she has not checked her facts/emails prior to saying everything. I do random fecals because my importer does treat the animals before I get them. If anything comes up positive then the situation is taken care of and animals are all tested and treated accordingly. When I say “random” it is basically one fecal per cage. When I get the animals in I would normally house 1.1 or 1.2 together (exact numbers vary based on the sex ratio that arrives). I would then collect a fecal sample from the cage, not knowing which animal it came from, thats where random comes in. Also they were in my care for quite a while, 6-12 months. Had there been issues, I would have seen that in the animal and had it taken care of.


Silveretta - Thank you for also seeing that. For a minute I thought there were only a handful of people noticing that.


Thanks Erik

 

[EriksReptiles]

Chris - I have asked a few of the people I have sold to and currently sell to that work at Zoos I sold to for their input and if they would be willing to speak on the quality of the animals they received. I gave them the link. If they do great, but I will not be dragging them into this. I am leaving it up to their discretion.

Thanks Erik

 

[Chris Kennard]

You seemed adamant that Erik stated he does not do fecals on his animals, but he told you in this e-mail that he does...

"I never said they did or didn't have parasites. I did random fecals when I was told about what you had, they came back clean. I don’t really know what else you want from me". Looks they were done after the fact.

 

[EriksReptiles]

"I never said they did or didn't have parasites. I did random fecals when I was told about what you had, they came back clean. I don’t really know what else you want from me". Looks they were done after the fact.

Hello,

Yes, after Bonnie brought this to my attention I did 4 additional fecals. The shelf her animals were on had 6 cages on it. She bought the pair from 1 cage and 1 cage has been empty. So there were 4 cages with animals on that shelf that were randomly fecal tested again.

Thanks Erik

 

[Chris Kennard]

Hello,


Sorry for the lack of responses for the past few days. I had a lot more family come to town for Thanksgiving than I was told. So it has been quite hectic around here.



Anyway,

To the people who pointed out about throwing out an animal. I also do list in my terms that if something happened to the animal, keep the body as proof. Which I overlooked and gave her a refund. Had that been the case, I would have been more than willing to pay to ship it back to me, and have a certified vet necropsy the animal and see what the worms in question were.


Bonnie – I had listed some of my Uroplatus for sale FAR before I got Derek’s animals. Simply making some more room for them. The sikorae you bought were never from him, but were from an importer friend as I told you in the email you posted. That email (the one you posted in post #63) was in response to yours (your boyfriends) email about some LTC sikorae. Which was answered correctly as those sikorae you bought were LTC from an importer friend, It was not in relation to any other species we had discussed.


First email from you and your boyfriend:

Erik,

My girlfriend and I have been looking to expand our breeding colony of U. sikorae by adding a pair and I noticed that you had listed some LTC pairs and trios on Fauna. I was wondering why you were getting rid of them and how long they have been in captivity; since we are looking to expand our breeding stock, we wanted to make sure that we would not be getting burned out breeders. Also, I was curious if they've been treated for parasites. If you could let me know about this and any additional information that you think I should know about these geckos, we'd love to be able to do business with you.

Thanks,

--
Justin Bonner


My response:

Hello,

I tried giving you a call, feel free to call me at 303-905-1592.

Yes, I do have some CB and LTC sikorae available. The only reason I am selling some is because I have held back to many sikorae. I currently have and breed 11 species of Uroplatus, not including aff animals. So I have a very full plate. I have over 600 individual Uroplatus, not including other species, and held back so many animals I just don't have room for them all.

I actualy wrote the cover article for the June issue of Reptiles Magazine on how to breed fimbriatus. I have a very extensive background in breeding Uroplatus as well as numerous other species.

Some have been in captivity for around a year and some 6+ months. The smaller animals were imported as young babies and I have grown them up, and some were hatched from eggs that import females dropped. Some are also proven. However the CB pair is only about 4-5 months old. I have background for every animal. So I can provide that upon request/sale.

None are burnt out breeders. When I got them from my importer friends, I made sure to buy smaller animals to ensure I wasn't buying old imports.

They were treated by my importer. Random fecals came up clean upon recieving the animals into my facility. All are thriving so individual fecals were not performed.

If you have any further questions feel free to email or call.

I also have some henkeli, fimbriatus, lineatus, and phantasticus for sale at the moment if interested.

Thanks Erik


Your response:

Erik,

Glad to hear from you, sorry I missed your phone call, I was helping my girlfriend in our greenhouse.

All of that information sounds absolutely wonderful. We are looking for an adult LTC pair, so if you have more background info on the pair that you listed on Fauna, that would be great. Also, if you have any other LTC pairs for sale, we would love to hear more about them as well.

Also, we are looking to expand our collection of Uroplatus species in the near future and my girlfriend was wondering how much you were charging for the phantasticus that you mentioned at the end of your email.

I greatly appreciate the timely response to my questions and truly hope that we get to do business together.

Thanks,
Justin

-- To me, that shows he acknowledged what I said about treating them, where they came from, ect when he said "All of that information sounds absolutely wonderful." If he did not convey that information to you, I’m sorry. But I simply cannot control that.


Suncoast – Thank you for the input. I appreciate the input about the maggots in living animals. I have only briefly heard of it happening but never seen it in person.



Chris – Yes, random. However Bonnie clearly stated I said I never do. THAT is what I am trying to show. I clearly do not “never” do fecals, as she said. I am just confused as to why she has not checked her facts/emails prior to saying everything. I do random fecals because my importer does treat the animals before I get them. If anything comes up positive then the situation is taken care of and animals are all tested and treated accordingly. When I say “random” it is basically one fecal per cage. When I get the animals in I would normally house 1.1 or 1.2 together (exact numbers vary based on the sex ratio that arrives). I would then collect a fecal sample from the cage, not knowing which animal it came from, thats where random comes in. Also they were in my care for quite a while, 6-12 months. Had there been issues, I would have seen that in the animal and had it taken care of.


Silveretta - Thank you for also seeing that. For a minute I thought there were only a handful of people noticing that.


Thanks Erik

Gotcha. So between one third and one half are checked. That sounds time consuming. Who are your importer friends? Or is it friend? I got confused by the above post you made. Perhaps they could shed some light here on their screening habits and how they treat their(your) animals.

 

[Chris Kennard]

"All of that information sounds absolutely wonderful". I'm pretty sure that had you said worms would be crawling out of the animal's orifices, that statement would have been tweaked just a bit.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Chris - I have asked a few of the people I have sold to and currently sell to that work at Zoos I sold to for their input and if they would be willing to speak on the quality of the animals they received. I gave them the link. If they do great, but I will not be dragging them into this. I am leaving it up to their discretion.

Thanks Erik

Wow, lol! Name the ZOOS you sold to. Not the people who work at zoos who bought from you privately. You have a way with words. Gift of gab? No need to drag anyone into this. Are the zoos part of a national security issue?

 

[Wilomn]

I've never seen maggots crawl out of a corpse that wasn't freshly disturbed. They tend to go IN so they can feed.

I have seen lung worms exiting a carcass, coming OUT, as it were. Lung worms can't live in a dead host.

 

[esoteric]

An "idea" is a far cry from a "guarantee". I don't need to ask him anything. I certainly wouldn't buy from anyone that can't guarantee a clean animal because he hasn't the time to screen them all. Noone has proven that the OPs claims have not been true. Erik has been ducking and dodging many questions which doesn't make him "look any better". What zoos???

If I were buying from someone that asserted an absolute 'guarantee' to be free of parasites, no matter the circumstances, it wouldn't be believable. Even a fully CB animal that's had no contact, direct or indirect, with anything WC will still face exposure to foreign materials through plant matter and feeders. Unless these animals are raised in a completely clean-room environment without contact with even the keeper, the notion of an absolute guarantee is implausible. These are biological systems, not televisions (which also have limited warranties).

Fecals are not 100% guaranteed to show results at any moment (life cycle, emission, and reading/interpretation). Will a fecal show lung worms or other non-GI-tract infections? A certain confidence level can be achieved statistically through random or periodic sampling, but what kind of sampling is needed to achieve that confidence level I don't know (I'm not a statistician or in the biological sciences).