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Ethical question/ Advice needed..Enigma

Iguanachic

Iguanachic

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I bought a snow patternless enigma adult male at a recent show. I told the vendor that I was looking for a breeder and he pointed this boy out. Now I do not at all blame the breeder as I should not have made a hasty last minute purchase without asking all the right questions.

This male has a terrible case of I guess it's called "enigma syndrome". We have had him two weeks in quarantine, only handled when I am changing the cage. He walks constant circles, tilts his head completely to the right constantly, and cannot seem to see well. He walks into his hide 3 or 4 times before he manages to make it inside. If I do have to pick him up he head tilts until he actually flips over onto his back. He is not eating on his own. I did get him to eat a few crickets from tongs but not nearly what he should be eating.

Now this is where my dilemma comes in. I am starting a very small breeding project right now with leo's. I obviously cannot breed this male. I really don't have a ton of space to keep him segregated forever like he should be. I don't feel he could live with any females for fear of him being picked on and again I don't want to breed him. Would I be wrong to keep him until I get him feeding well and pet him out for free with full disclosure to his issues? Should I just suck it up and make room for him? I don't want to burden anyone else with my problem but I also think he needs a lot of attention.

More importantly does anyone have any advice for getting this guy to eat well for me? I can't stand the thought that he is hungry but as soon as I try to assist feed him he flips over onto his back. It took 45 minutes just to get him to eat 3 crickets from the tongs. I am worried and stressed!

Thank you for reading this!
 
If you are able to, keep him in the dark as much as possible. The enigma syndrome seems to be worsened by stress and light exposure, so see if that helps. Give him time to settle in and avoid messing with him as much as possible. I wouldn't even try to feed him for a few days.

It is definitely not a fun situation to be in and I have been there before too.. I ended up having the euthanize the poor girl in my case :(. Good luck and keep us updated
 
Yes the breeder asked that I call him tomorrow. I have been keeping him dark and like I said I only handle him for cage cleaning. I will leave him be for a day or two and see if that helps. Thanks!
 
I personally would dump it back into the breeders lap and let him deal with it. It would be my guess that he knew of it's condition and could very well be the reason it was "pointed out" to you. As you are limited with space I'm sure someone who is producing such an animal would be as well and he just passed the responsibility off onto you without full disclosure. :NoNo:
 
Ethically, I think you need to try to see if you can get him to do better and then try to find him a pet home where he can get the attention. Fortunately there are folks out there that will probably be fine with it. It may take a while and maybe you won't find anyone.
The only other thing in my mind would be to put him down. Seems to me that this would not be a good life for him.
The reason why I would not but it back in the previous sellers care is that they either did not care about the animal (heck they sold it for money and obviously this animal is not well) or they did not know there was an issue and then do you want him to have to live there or be resold again?
And it puzzles me that you would not blame the breeder! Either, again, they did not know, did not care, or just thought you were easy pray and sold you a gecko that obviously has issues. Neither one of those three scenarios in my mind makes them anyone I would like to deal with. Especially if you told them you are looking for a breeding animal. Knowing that you would put that back into your own program. Just my two cents of course.
 
Okay, I don't know how to edit my above post.
Just wanted to add that I think you are a great person to not "blame" the breeder for the reasons you stated. My point is only, I would not deal with them again. Hope that sounds a bit better.
 
I certainly won't purchase from them again but I have to take the blame for making a hasty purchase and not asking the questions I should have adn putting myself in this situation. We're going to do our best with him. Thanks!
 
First off im the breeder of this gecko and can assure everyone there was no problems with this gecko, for crying out loud the animal was over 40 grams. If this gecko was so sick im sure it would not be big and obviously ate for me. Im very passionate about what I do and want no one to have a bad time with any of our geckos.
I think some of you need to have a better idea of what your talking about before you decide to give advice to others. Enigmas have issues that randomly pop up from stress induced circumstances. Some enigmas never have issues some randomly do. For those of you trying to say i have or sell sick animals need to do some research. I have been trying to help seanna ever step of the way, and quite frankly this post runs me off a bit. I even offered a replacement gecko so she would not have a horrible experience with this one.
Bottomline enigmas are for the more experienced leo keeper because of their potential issues. Im not saying seanna is not a experience keeper, I have no idea, but it could be handled in a better manner.
We have been producign high quality animals for 10 years and do not intend to stop anytime soon.
 
Wow! Actually you were aware I was not an experienced keeper/breeder as we discussed that I was brand new to breeding and asked you for a recommendation. I did not post your name here nor blame you. Why would I post this if it wasn't true? I told you flat out I did not expect a refund or replacement. I did not say you knew without a doubt he had severe issues, just that in my care he does.

I am aware that enigma symptoms worsen with stress, that is why I did not post immediately or email immediately. I was hoping he would settle in and improve. He has not.

I have done nothing unprofessional. I'm not even upset about the transaction. I am upset for the gecko but I purchased him after seeing him with my own two eyes so I don't blame you. I'm not sure how you think I could have handled this better or what you think I did wrong?

The female I got from you is doing fantastic as I told you. She is a great gecko. I'm sorry if you feel offended as it was not my intention. I was merely trying to get some help for the gecko and find out others opinions on me rehoming him not to bad mouth you.

Regardless, I bought him and I will care for him no matter what the answer may be. He may need to euthanized, he may come around once we find a schedule that works for him and stay here as a pet. I don't know.
 
I was not pointing my anger at you so much as the others in this thread whom seem to judge others without knowing the situation, or not knowing the morph. I was stating i was not aware of the thread, not that you were having issues. As i said previously im here to help you, we give excellent customer service and that what i intend to do. PLEASE do not euthanize that animal, there is no need. I would much rather keep him as a pet then you euthanize him. As i also stated i will replace him if you wish. BUt bottomline there is no need to put this animal down, I raise him from a hatchling and he does fine with me. SO please return him if you do not want him.
 
I have no doubt you are a fantastic breeder with some wonderful geckos. I saw many with my own eyes at the show. I don't know if this one slipped through the cracks or if he is truly that stressed here with me. I am going to work with him. I certainly don't want an argument or bad blood with anyone. I do enjoy the female very much.

I would not euthanize him just because he has issues or needs extra care. My concern is that if I cannot get him to eat for me he will wither away on me and I don't want that. I certainly don't want him to suffer. Please don't think that I don't care about his well being. I care very much and will do whatever I can to help him before that option is considered. If I feel he is not beginning to make a turn around with me very soon I will return him to you if you can keep him as a pet. I do not need a replacement.
 
Enigmas stress easy and that is most likely the issue. Please keep me in the loop, I want to ensure the animal is ok and of course you get a positive outcome from you transaction with luxurious leopards
 
Pat's right, sometimes Enigmas can exhibit the weird behavior when they are shipped, taken to a show, or in a new home. I would urge you to give him a couple more weeks to get settled. I know Pat very well and I know he would never sell an Enigma that he thought was going to give the new owner problems. Seanna, please keep us posted as to how the gecko does, but I hope you decide not to euthanize him, as most likely he just needs some time to settle in and get used to his surroundings. Best ofluck with him.
 
Thank you! I didn't intend to bring up Pat's name. I certainly thought the animal was 100% or I wouldn't have bought him. I received some wonderful advice from Pat at the show as well. This post was not supposed to be about the breeder just what my options were with the gecko. I'm not here to give anyone a bad name. I will do all that I can to make sure this guy has an enjoyable life whether it be with me or Pat. Take care!
 
Just figured I would update everyone on the little guy. I have gotten him to eat 4-5 crickets twice now. I have to put him into a shoe box size container, turn off all lights in the room, and leave him be for about an hour. It has worked twice so far so maybe him and I are working out a system. I am still not handling him or bugging him any more then necessary, we're taking baby steps. Thanks for everyone's advice.
 
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