Exciting news on the "Hine-Hypo-(co)-dominant"-question (pics)

[rhac]

Hi,

for those who don't remember the story:
In 2003 I hatched 2 Hypo females from a Super Hypo Tangerine (Ray Hine Line) x wild caught pairing. The following years all the babies of this pairing were Hypos.
This year, I paired the two Hypo females I hatched out in 2003 with a High Yellow male to find out if the Ray Hine Hypo gene is co-dominant, or dominant, or something totally different.

Some days ago the clutches of the High Yellow x Hypo Tangerine (03) hatched. The clutches of both female hatched.
And that's what the babies look like:
In each case one Hypo Baby and one High Yelow Baby hatched out:

(an ugly one ....but a Hypo for sure)

The High Yellows:

A comparison of the four. As you can see, the High Yellows have a real black, the Hypo bands have the typical Hypo-look.

So it seems like the Ray Hine Hypo gene works like a co-dominant or dominant gene. But how to find out if it is dominant or co-dominant?
Because in both cases I can hatch out Hypo or normal/high yellow from pairing High Yellow with the '03 Hypo holdback females.

Greetings from Germany, rhac

 

[A_Kendergirl]

I could be totally crazy, but don't dominate traits have only a single phenotype for both the homozygous and heterozygous forms? While co-doms have two seperate phenotypes for homozygous and heterozygous - meaning it has a "super" form. I think Mack snows are the best example of this.

In this case, I would look back on your breeding records. What percentage of the hypo x hypo pairing gave you super hypos? If the trait is truely co-dom, then you should have roughly 50% super hypos. If it's around 10%, you're either very unlucky, or I would guess that super hypos are just a very nice example of a dominate hypo.

 

[brucestephenson]

Excellent subject. Excellent pictures.

 

[SteveGeckosEtc]

Johannes,

Very interesting, that sure provides good support for it being dominant. Can you post the pictures that you posted in previous threads of the lineage (moms, dad, grandparents, etc.). It will be interesting to see how much spotting these babies develop as they grow up and compare them to their moms.

For it to be a codominant you need to be able to tell the one copy version (heterozygous) from the two copy form (super). In this situation you know the genetic makeup of the babies because you outcrossed them, so the comparison with their parents and grandparents will be very interesting.

 

[rhac]

Grandparents:

Wild caught male:

Super Hypo Tangerine (Ray Hine Line) female, bought in 2001:

Parents:

High Yellow father:

Hypo Holdback female 1 (Sunshine):

Hypo Holdback female 2 (Smiley):

As you see, the holdback females have few or no spots on body. But I have to add, that not all the Hypo offspring from the wild caught x Super Hypo parents have such few spots. Most of them have more, like these (not full grown on the pics...but I dont think they will loose the spots...but I will keep them for more testbreeding next season...so I can post update pics):

Thank you all for your opinons and coments, rhac

 

[A_Kendergirl]

While the definition of "Hypo" is murky at best, those last two have such a reduced pattern that I would possibly include them as a hypo.

I go by the 10 spot rule, but there are some geckos that are so close that I think there should be a better definition. Something like the absence of spots in the light bands - as these guys have.

 

[saltwaterreptiles]

I was wondering about the hypo label as well... I have one girl who is a high yellow, but have been wondering if she might be closer to a tang, and her yellow bands are relatively spotless.... any opinions?

Excellent post, nice to see the genetic background on those hatchlings as well, will be equally interesting to see how they progress

 

[A_Kendergirl]

I would agree that that one looks a bit more tangy than normal. Even when using the broader definition I suggested (absence of spots in the light bands), I wouldn't consider that one a hypo. There aren't many, but there are spots in the bands that would have been light as a baby.

The question I have is, is Hines line the only form of hypo that isn't line breed? Also, would you only count black spots? The spots on the gecko above look more of a dark brown in the lighter areas. That is somewhat similar to my gecko Garnet, who I think of as a reduced pattern tang. Her spots in the lighter bands are more of a rust color.

 

[rhac]

While the definition of "Hypo" is murky at best, those last two have such a reduced pattern that I would possibly include them as a hypo.

Hypo has so many different meanings. Some people call every Gecko who has less than 10 spots a Hypo. But we have to differentiate between the genetic hypo and the Hypos we call so just because they have less than 10 spots.

As you can see with the baby fotos: You can tell the Hypos apart from normal babys very well. What I consider as Hypo is the genetic Hypo. So I don't count spots.

Too bad that my english is so bad that I cannot explain myself.
But what I mean is, you musnt call every human having more hairs on body like others an ape, just because he has so much hairs. His Genotype, the human DNA, makes him a human, not the number of hairs.

So if we find out,about the genetics behind the Ray Hine Hypogene, maybe then we need a new name for it.

 

[diablohogs]

Hypo has so many different meanings. Some people call every Gecko who has less than 10 spots a Hypo. But we have to differentiate between the genetic hypo and the Hypos we call so just because they have less than 10 spots.

i completely agree with that statement.