exoticpets ???

[greenmansgeckos]

I have been looking to purchase some peanutt butter brooks kings.........................................so any way i see an ad on that other site(ks) for a 2 year old pnb male for 250 Im geeked to say the least but it looks funny so I ask for more pics and i swear it looks nothing like a pnb and everything like one of my lav albinos. now ive been talking with ken foose for some years i think he is a good guy and i dont mean to bring his name down by this im just wondering if anyone else has had a problem like thsi/ i breed my own lav albinos and i dont need to get another one for 250.
ben clifton

 

[Jim O]

If this is an inquiry about Ken Foose, he is a pretty well known good guy.

If this is a question about identifying an animal maybe you should post the question the the species forum (unless you think Ken is trying to pull a fast one).

 

[Ken Foose]

Jim, I'm way too slow to try and pull a fast one. I might hurt myself.

 

[greenmansgeckos]

If this is an inquiry about Ken Foose, he is a pretty well known good guy.

If this is a question about identifying an animal maybe you should post the question the the species forum (unless you think Ken is trying to pull a fast one).

feel free mods to delete this i thought i made it clear i dont think ken foose is a bad guy, i think I may have even said it. There has just been an explosinion of people selling pnutt butters and i didnt think it looked right for a 2 yr old pnb so i asked silly of me i guess was just looking for some group support in my belief that ken was a good guy sorry just so much scammi9ng going on now, any ways take it off forget i asked sorry ken hope i didnt p*ss you off.lol
ben clifton

 

[hhmoore]

feel free mods to delete this i thought i made it clear i dont think ken foose is a bad guy, i think I may have even said it. There has just been an explosinion of people selling pnutt butters and i didnt think it looked right for a 2 yr old pnb so i asked silly of me i guess was just looking for some group support in my belief that ken was a good guy sorry just so much scammi9ng going on now, any ways take it off forget i asked sorry ken hope i didnt p*ss you off.lol
ben clifton

Sorry, but that isn't the way it works...once a post is here, it stays - barring some violation of the TOS.
If you are looking for support in your belief that Ken is a good guy, take a look at his other threads here. And I'll add my name to the list of those that give him a thumbs up.
Ken Foos =

 

[hhmoore]

guess that darned e is silent AND invisible...make that
Ken Foose =

 

[Ken Foose]

Ben, no offense is taken in any way. I might have done the same thing if it was me. Have you seen the names that have popped up here lately of people that were thought to be upstanding business people, and turns out they suck? Some of them I have personaly done business with for years. Now I look at the BOI and think "gads, I've been buying from these people". I have been lucky I guess.
Anyway, this is what the BOI is for. It is for inquiry into an persons history before you work with them, plain and simple. Hopefully my history stands up for itself in this case. I have a really good thing going here, love what I do, and I'm pretty good at it. I wouldn't want to screw it up over a $250 snake for sure.
Ben, you have been honest and polite and to have a customer like you is what it's all about.

 

[NickMyers03]

its good to know there are good business people on here that will thank customers for looking up their names and asking about them. that shows a lot about a person.. Thank you Ken Foose

 

[psyhodad]

I'm fortunate enough to live a short distance from Ken's store and have done business with him on numerous occassions. Ken is a stand up kind of guy that stands behind what he sells. His store and cages are always immaculate and when he's not hammered with customers he's always available for advice.

If you're thinking about doing business with Ken, rest assured you won't have any problems or be dissappointed with his customer service.

Lee Swartz

 

[FavorBoas]

I bought my female Blood Python from Ken 2 years ago and he was excellent with me in every way and delivered her right to my door in great shape and did a wonderful, expedient job. Thumbs up to you Ken...btw my Blood is doing great!

 

[Nokturnel Tom]

That's all fine and dandy but

The bottom line is, to many people a kingsnake is not looked at any type of a big deal. Misrepresentation is everywhere on the classifieds and kingsnake fanatics like myself contact sellers and tell them so. 9 out of 10 times they do nothing about it and the ad remains the same. The Peanut Butter Brooksi is a fairly new snake, and most offspring sold is easily traceable, meaning we know where most babies sold went. Now this snake is getting extra attention due to new variants being made and suddenly people selling Brooksi have Peanut Butters? No, they don't, they have Lavenders or something similar.

I have no doubts that Mr Foose is good guy for the most part, I have heard it many times. But this post brought a tiny bit of possibly negative attention to him and now satisfied customers are telling readers of this forum he is a great guy. Fine. Personally I disagree. When this incident was brought to his attention and was discussed it turned into "well It was brought to me as this and that's what I am labeling it as." Not too mention a fictional story including the name of a well known breeder was thrown into the mix and when that was looked into it was no surprise it was BS. That is typical pet shop mentality and people who take Kingsnakes seriously do not appreciate it. I know Not ALL Pet Shops are terrible places, I know of a few who have their act together and are very good places to score a reptile. Exotic Pets is probably still one of them. But again for this incident. Thumbs down. If this were a high dollar Boa or Python and the person who brought it to the hobby called the store it probably would have been taken much more seriously. Seeing I have done my share to promote this particular morph I am not OK with this, it pissed me off.
This followed recent hatching of new variants created from the Peanut Butter gene so I don't think it is wrong to guess that someone tried to capitalize on it. If it were something YOU personally had spent years working on you would not be OK with it either. It's not the end of the world someone misidentified a snake. But when the person who brought the snake to the hobby calls your store and tells you there must be some kind of mistake a lame excuse like the "it was sold to me as..." speaks volumes concering their integrity. Someone got caught in lie, I don't do business with liars. Tom Stevens

 

[Ken Foose]

In response to the poster, I don't ever misrepresent anything. I have no need to do so. What would be the point? I recieved the snake that you are all fumed about from a breeder who I have known for almost 20 years. I misunderstood where he said he got it from, hence the mistake on the name of his source. I purchased in a trade 95 snakes from my friend. He told me where he got most of them from as I stood overwelmed by the volume of snakes I was looking at. I honestly lost track. Some of the snakes did indeed come from the breeder you contacted, many did not. Why would I give you a name if I did not think it was true? As far as you calling me up and questioning the animal, it's real simple. Who are you? Nobody I know personaly. Life is full of choices. I made a choice. I can take the word of a man I have respected and known as an honest friend and fine herpetologist for almost 20 years, or someone I don't know and have never heard of.

As the ad stated, I'm not a brooksi expert, and I had never heard of a peanut butter brooks. Sounded like a new name made up in an attempt to make money from the "new" snake. I put my question of what it was right on the ad. Not once did I attempt to pawn it off as something it was not. I advertised it as what I was told it was. As I stated in a previous post, I have no desire to misrepresent anything, especially a $250 snake. What would be the point of it? Being honest is easy. Being dishonest is way too much work.

The snake was sold to a very nice family on Sunday. They took it home as thier first pet snake. They were very jazzed about it. They are not breeders, and never will be. They represent the majority of my customers, people who walk into my place looking for a pet. I expressed to them the doubts you raised in your phone call to me, and my own lack of knowlege as to exactly what it was. They didn't care one way or the other. They thought it was beautiful. They liked its calm disposition. Thier kids were excited. They plunked down thier hard earned money, and left with what they wanted, happy. I'm happy they were happy. Life is good.

Anyway, that's it. You seem very angry, so I doubt if we're done. Snake is gone (most likely never to enter the trade again if that's your worry). Happy customers that will be buying mice and rats from me for many years to come. All in all, not bad.

 

[bluerosy]

This whole thing is really disturbing to me because ken Foose is respected and has been around this business for a long time.

Ken you mistook the poster (Nokturnal Tom) who said he called you for me. But it was me who called you (twice) and explained that i was the person who popularized that new Peanut Butter morph. I spoke to you intelligently as an experienced breeder to another. Someone on your level KNOWS the difference and the excuse. You also do know me but you CHOSE to forgot that as well. Either way after calling Bob Applegate and calling you back to straighten out a misunderstanding has erupted into this.

When I saw the ad i knw it was not a Peanut butter but a common Lavender Florida king.

I produced most all of the PB brooks so i know who they went to and so forth.

I called the Ken and told him I originated the PB and that was not a PB. But that was not good enough for him. He said Bob Appelgate gave it to him. I called Bob and he said he has not worked with brooks kings sincemany years and he has no idea what a Peanut butter brooks was much less sold one to Ken Foose. So i called the Ken back and he said he will check with Bob. Thats was 3 weeks ago now and he is still running the ad.



Ben, no offense is taken in any way. I might have done the same thing if it was me. Have you seen the names that have popped up here lately of people that were thought to be upstanding business people, and turns out they suck? Some of them I have personaly done business with for years. Now I look at the BOI and think "gads, I've been buying from these people". I have been lucky I guess.
Anyway, this is what the BOI is for. It is for inquiry into an persons history before you work with them, plain and simple. Hopefully my history stands up for itself in this case. I have a really good thing going here, love what I do, and I'm pretty good at it. I wouldn't want to screw it up over a $250 snake for sure.
Ben, you have been honest and polite and to have a customer like you is what it's all about.

Nice way of avoiding the conversations you knew we had. This is really disturbing to me since when you wrote this you knew I had called you twice and the story of this snake.


Anyway, that's it. You seem very angry, so I doubt if we're done. Snake is gone (most likely never to enter the trade again if that's your worry). Happy customers that will be buying mice and rats from me for many years to come. All in all, not bad.

Again not Nokturnal Tom who called you but me. You seem to have a problem with paying attention to details. maybe to many snakes sales?

I normally don't come on here and post but this warrants a post. I have been breeding snakes for over 35 years and you have been around a long time as well. We speak the same language and yet you refused to change the ad and sell the snake to someone.

Now we are supposed to beleive you that these people will never advertise this snake as a Peanut Butter? HOGWASH! Or how about if they buy a female Peanut Butter as a mate?

The whole thing stinks and your excuses of riding on your past history is just not cutting it. I have seen many snakes you advertised that are not what they are supposed to be. recently i saw some obvious eastern king x florida kings you advertised as brooks kings. There are others as well.

You can't keep misidentifying snakes just to make a buck. They are nice snakes but this market has enough people ripping off names and selling snakes that are not what they are supposed to be.

Someone like me calls you and then checks out your story and calls back and you are still not satisfied and said "I will check into it" and that was 3 weeks ago. I just saw the ad up a couple days ago and now you sold it. Congratulations!

Since the last 3 weeks I have had several people contact me and ask about the snake you advertised as a Peanut butter brooks. People know I originated them and I told you that I did and that I have bred them since 2003 and that the snake you had was not a Peanut butter. Why you chose to continue to advertise the snake as such is either pure ignornace, denial or intent. Which is it and what story are you sticking to?

 

[greenmansgeckos]

well i havent been around for thirty years, but I have been around enough to be glad I just didnt get myself scammed. This is just crazy............There may not be alot of them but there are a few, people know I spend money when you have what i want and I dont play any kind of games, this really bums me out. I started my email informing ken I had been an old chatroom friend from the aol reptile chat room blabla and i still almost paid double what i could sell my lav albs for.......had i just shot him the credit card number id just be screwed now. Maybe I miss understood but i was never under the impression it was not a pnb, i never really got the idea this might be a pnb.................

 

[Ken Foose]

Rainer, sorry I mistook you for Tom, or the other way around. I thought you were the same person. As for which "story", I will stick to the one I posted above. I still believe it was a peanut butter brook's, and that's where it stands. I have it verified by someone else as to what it is. I will gladly email his name to anyone that emails me and asks. I don't have his permission to post his name here. I do believe the point is, once again, I would not bother trying to rip anyone off for $250. Makes no sense at all. I'm not sure what your motivation is here, but I'll still stand by my reputation and honesty. I have never ripped anyone off in my life, and never will. I'm also not going to get into a 50 page debate about it here with you.

Rob, I never tried to con you. I stand by my ad as I placed it.

 

[Xelda]

As the ad stated, I'm not a brooksi expert, and I had never heard of a peanut butter brooks. Sounded like a new name made up in an attempt to make money from the "new" snake. I put my question of what it was right on the ad. Not once did I attempt to pawn it off as something it was not. I advertised it as what I was told it was.

I still believe it was a peanut butter brook's, and that's where it stands. I have it verified by someone else as to what it is.

Your wording still makes the ad very misleading. The problem here is that you continue to claim it was a peanut butter despite your own admission that you don't know brooks morphs. The peanut butter line was first marketed by Rainer and ONLY Rainer. He hasn't sold very many, and they are still incredibly hard to come because nobody is mass producing them. Regardless of who told you it was a peanut butter, unless you can trace the snake back to Rainer, it is most likely not a peanut butter.

Now I am certainly not a brooks expert, but I do own over 30 of them and have just about every morph available including a few peanut butters. There simply is no way a common lavender could be mistaken for a peanut butter. The colors are completely different. Even a hypo comes much closer to looking like a peanut butter. Someone ought to post comparison pictures to illustrate the difference.

I think this was a case of misrepresentation. If anyone is trying to capitalize off of this "made up name," it really looks like you, Ken. I'd like to think the misrepresentation was born out of ignorance though rather than malicious intent. It's a forgivable mistake, but listen to who is telling you that it was not a peanut butter.

 

[bluerosy]

Ken Fooose said:
As the ad stated, I'm not a brooksi expert, and I had never heard of a peanut butter brooks. Sounded like a new name made up in an attempt to make money from the "new" snake. I put my question of what it was right on the ad. Not once did I attempt to pawn it off as something it was not.

I read the ad sevrals times and it never said any of this.

 

[bluerosy]

Here are some other ads.

This is not a brooks. Looks like a hybrid.

Posted by Exotic Pets
July 15, 2007 at 02:23:02


This is an unusually marked and colored Brook's. It's a young adult male, feeding on f/t jumbo mice. $200
URL: http://Exoticpetslv.com

 

[Ken Foose]

I concede. After doing a whole bunch of homework, and looking at a whole bunch of photos, I will recant. It is silly for me to debate with what is hands down the expert of this morph that Rainer is. Even though the snake I had looks almost exactly like the first one Rainer has posted on his ad on kingsnake.com. I was not aware of his dedication to this line, or of all the work he has put into it to establish it. It was not my intent to step on anyones toes or interfere with anyones monetary gain of this line of snakes. I'll be contacting my customers who bought the snake in our usual "week after purchase" follow up call to make sure they know for sure that the snake is not a peanut butter. As I stated in my last post, this animal was independently verified as a peanut butter, and I believe that the person really believed it was.
I do everything I can to do the best I can at what I do, and sometimes I flop. It happens. Not often, but it does happen (which sucks, by the way). My apologies to all involved.

 

[varnyard]

Ken Foose: In response to the poster, I don't ever misrepresent anything. I have no need to do so. What would be the point?

To collect extra cash by misrepresenting an animal, in so doing collecting extra cash for a much cheaper animal, as well as calling it something it is not.


Mr. Foose was contacted about his ad on KS, he is selling a $15.00 Colombian tegu as a much more expensive Argentine, when called on his actions, this was his response:

Foose: Actually it's an Argentine. And a good price to boot. Don't know much about tegus, do ya? Tell you what, buy it from me, and if it's not exactly what I say it is I'll double your money back. I'm not in the business of ripping people off, or being insulted.

This is the ad in question:
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=53&de=564226

This is pictures of the Colombian tegu:

Mr Foose, that is not a good price, nor is it an Argentine tegu. And no Mr Foose, I know nothing about tegus, however I am one of the largest breeders in the U.S.