Exotics-r-us/ Ray Hunter/ Ricky D

[COBRAMAN]

Chris, not only is he good at sidestepping your questions, He still has not answered why he posts all his lies about Me and Ricky, then turns around and sneaks me an e-mail telling me that he still thinks I am a good guy, and that he thinks Ricky is responcible for ill snakes being shipped. He seems to have this strange fixation about how Ricky and I are doing. Neither one of them have made any contact with Ricky (other than sending an e-mail 4 days after he unpacked the snakes to claim the death of a baby black neck spitter). I offered both him and Ken Ricky's phone number to call him and try to work out an arrangement , but last I checked with Ricky, neither have made any contact with him. It is easier to sit back and make up lies to attempt to bash a mere employee who does not make such decisions. We obviously have invoices to prove when shipments came in, so I can prove that we have had the animals over 8 weeks. If Kevin thinks I might perhaps alter the documents, he could call MIA , Fish and Wildlife, and Customs (all of which won't alter records) and get a list of every shipment we got in with the dates. I bet he won't do that, because that would prove him to be the liar he is. (Go ahead, Kevin, here is your big chance to show everyone that you are not lying. I bet you won't do it) I just checked the invoice myself. The LAST shipment that we got that had any gaboons on it was 8/6/2003 from Uganda. So I stand corrected, Kevin, It was NOT 8 weeks that we had them, it was 12. Crappy, skinny imports do not last 12 weeks! and the bigest gaboon I sent you was NOT 5 feet like you lied about, it was maybe 3 at most. So don't try to pass off a 5 foot gaboon that weighed 5 pounds. If I just paid nearly a thousand dollars for a shipment of snakes, and they came in as bad as he claims, I would be on the phone within minutes, not 4-10 days latter. was told by Ken that he would have Kevin send me the pics of the snakes that died, and that was tree days ago, and I have yet to recieve the pics. Hmmm! And I have no doubt at all that Kevin could go to his freezer and pull out a bunch of snakes and take pictures of them. I am sure he has an entire chest freezer packed with a variety of dead snakes. Kevin himself has told me that he has a high mortality rate after he does his venomoid surgery. And Chris, you bring up a valid point... I should have stopped selling to him a long time ago. That won't happen again.

To sum it all up, Ricky agreed to allow me to make good on the 2 snakes he claimed (4 days after recieving them), and we will do so if they choose. I suspect that Kevin's well known reputation of making false claims, along with the 10 day delay of notification, was the reason for him not being willing to give credit for the rest of the snakes that allegedly died at his facility. It is also odd that Kevin is plugging Jay at Exotic Jungle (who I happen to like, and respect very much), yet on the phone he tells me how everything Jay sends him arrives dead or dies shortly afterward, and they are never going to do any business with him again. (starting to see a pattern???)

I know that I am breaking my own rule about responding to his silly tantrum-like posts, but this one is actually humorous watching him lie and then contradict himself in his e-mails. His charactor is acurately summed up by himself when you read his posts, then read his e-mail. Condemed by his own mouth and lies.
All the very Best!
Ray Hunter

 

[oreganus]

okay, since....

you obviously don't care what anyone has to say, unless it fits your motives or ideas, for example:

"While since you aren't a licensed vet, what are you using for anesthesia when you cut into these snakes?
How are you able to get analgesics or antibiotics for their post-op recovery?
What kind of autoclave do you use to sterilize your surgical equiptment?

That's what I thought....no I think the term "hackjob" fits your illegal practice well."

>> How in heck do you get this from what I posted? I simply said that YES, I SOLD venomoids. DO YOU ASK EVERYONE WITH VENOMOIDS ABOUT THE SURGEON BEING A VET? Obviously, you are trying to make me look bad, but I have yet to figure out why except for the fact that you are against venomoids and obviously are looking to crucify someone to make yourself feel better. But I am not going to play your little tune and I am going to simply leave the post on Ray alone, tell you it was the truth, tell you that I am not going to argue or defend myself to you, I don't have to, everyone that knows me and has dealt with me can have their opinions, we can just keep an eye on this forum and see who has more problems with people and is more shady.
Kevin Smith

 

[oreganus]

Ray....

"Kevin himself has told me that he has a high mortality rate after he does his venomoid surgery. And Chris, you bring up a valid point... I should have stopped selling to him a long time ago. That won't happen again"

YOU ARE THE BIGGEST SCUMBAG LIAR I HAVE EVER DEALT WITH IN MY ENTIRE LIFE! I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT TO YOU, THE ONLY TIME THAT WE HAVE SPOKEN IS WENT YOU HAVE SENT B GRADE ANIMALS. I HAVE NEVER TOLD YOU THAT " I HAD A HIGH MORTALITY RATE" But I DID say that "THE ANIMALS THAT CAME FROM YOU HAVE A HIGH MORTALITY RATE". It doesn't take a venomoid surgery to kill the animals from you guys, they die just fine on their own. Sidestepping what question? I answered exactly on the point. I can't wait to see what you have to say when others start posting on here about what you have said. I only said that you were talking trash about Ricky to show how you really are. I understand you not admitting it on a public forum because you don't want to lose you job or deal with the consequences of your trash talking, but YOU KNOW WHAT YOU SAID. I am not going to argue the point. I GOT A QUESTION FOR YOU RAY, IF YOU ARE SO AGAINST VENOMOIDS NOW, WHY THE HELL DID YOU SEND A BUNCH TO GET FIXED? AND THEN THREW A "TANTRUM" WHEN YOU GOT THE SAME CRAP ANIMALS BACK THAT YOU SENT? I am not going to argue any of this with you anymore. that is not what the BOI is for. YOU HAVE ALREADY TRIED TO ACCUSE ME OF HAVING SICK ANIMALS IN THE FREEZER AND TRYING TO SWITCH THEM OUT WITH THE ONES THAT YOU SENT. WELL I DON'T HAVE TO, BECAUSE THE ANIMALS YOU SENT ARE THE ONLY ONES IN THE FREEZER. There is no point in arguing this over and over with you. YOU ARE A COMPLETE LIAR AND PRETTY TWO FACED, I DON'T CARE IF ANYONE BELIEVES MY ORIGINAL POST ABOUT YOU OR NOT, THAT IS THERE MONEY AND THEIR PROBLEMS. The last thing I am going to respond to you about is the fact that you are trying to slam me for emailing you, EVERYONE CAN SCROLL BACK ON THIS THREAD AND SEE WHERE YOU TOLD ME TO EMAIL YOU PRIVATELY AND THEN YOU TURNED AROUND AND BROUGHT IT BACK ON HERE, WHY ARE YOU TRYING SO HARD TO KEEP IT ON HERE RAY????
That's it, I am done with you, you can have the last word Ray, because for someone that states over and over that they don't want to argue, you sure are posting alot.
Kevin Smith

 

[gila7150]

Ray hunter states in his first post...

Kevin then performs his own venomoid surgery on them.

You never denied this allegation. I asked if it was true and you said that's not the point. You later went on to say.....

just because someone has a license, DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THEY KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DOING!

I think it's pretty safe to say that you don't have a qualified reptile veterinary surgeon doing these surgeries for you. It's either you or one of your friends.
There are very few vets who are willing to do this type of surgery due to ethical reasons. The few that do that I am aware of are veterinarians that specialize in herps. You average dog/cat vet is not doing surgeries on venomous snakes.

So I'll ask one more time....when these surgeries are illegally performed, are you cutting into these snakes while they are wide awake with no anesthesia.
Or are you somehow able to illegally obtain a controlled substance such as Isofluorane to make these garage surgeries more humane?
Just curious how a layperson goes about creating some of those sunken in faced abominations that show up in the Kingsnake venomous classifieds..

 

[oreganus]

I rest my case..

"Just curious how a layperson goes about creating some of those sunken in faced abominations that show up in the Kingsnake venomous classifieds.."

Now that you have proven to be an anti venomoid person that is asking questions to simply prove your close minded opinions and beliefs to the rest of the world because of your own insecurities, I am not going to get into a flame war with you and I am not going to prove myself or the venomoid point, because it is wasted energy, because no matter how much someone proves something to you, you still believe what you believe and are not going to listen or try to understand anything except your own voice.
Kevin Smith

 

[ms_terese]

Ok, ok, ok, we get it Kevin: You're not going to openly admit to performing surgery illegally, but you're not going to come out and deny it either. You don't like the laws requiring venomoid surgeries to be performed by licensed veterinarians? Let me know if you need an appendectomy, I've got a friend who's a butcher at the meat market, and he's awe inspiring with a sharp knife. I'm sure he'd do a great job on you.

I am not going to get into a flame war with you and I am not going to prove myself or the venomoid point, because it is wasted energy, because no matter how much someone proves something to you, you still believe what you believe and are not going to listen or try to understand anything except your own voice.

Do you not see that this is exactly what YOU are doing? I don't care if he sent you snakes with candy corn glued to their scales (ok, I *would* care if he did that, but you get the point), you didn't follow the TOS. Everything past that point is moot.

You've had a long history of B-grade animals? Well then why the heck are you still supporting the business? Pony up some additional money and buy from a more consistent importer!

It really irks me when someone gets aggravated at someone else, then decides to bring up a long history of inappropriate behavior by the other party. Do you know what this says? It says "I never cared about your dishonesty (or whichever unsavory characteristics apply) before, but now that you're behaving that way towards me, I'm going to point it out that you've been this way FOREVER!!"

 

[gila7150]

I'm not trying to debate whether creating venomoids is right or wrong.
Just pointing out that performing surgery for profit when you don't have a veterinary license is illegal.
...and performing an invasive surgery without the use of anesthetics is just plain cruel.
If you were spaying dogs in your garage for a profit I'd feel the same way.

 

[COBRAMAN]

Kevin, as you pointed out, I did and do welcome anyone to call or e-mail me anytime they wish. BUT... the point I was making was that you changed your attitude in your e-mail from calling me names (like the child that you appear to be) to stateing that you still think I am a god guy. and that Ricky is the bad guy. You said it, not me. You did not do so hot in reading comprehension, did you?
You can say whatever you want, but I have had several phone conversations with you in the past year, And you DID say that because you just learned how to do venomoid surgery, you have had a high mortality rate. Sorry if you don't remember what you said. You do seem to have selective memory. I suppose you did not really make the comments about Jay at Exotic Jungle also, Right??? BTW, we stopped selling venomoids a long time ago. That does not mean that I don't think people do not have the right to have them if they choose, but we will never sell them again. So I have no Idea about what you are lying about now. I'm sure you can come up with a colorfull story to go with your remark.

Ok, Since you are still so obviously obsessed with my relationship with Ricky, Please do tell us all exactly what I said to trash Ricky (my best friend, and brother). He and I could use some more good laughter from you. For your information, but not that it is any of your business, Ricky is helping me get my own business going, one that has nothing to do with reptiles. Perhaps I mentioned this to you as well as Ken, and you took it to mean that we are having issues. If so, I now set the record straight. See if you can comprehend that. He and I have never gotten along any better than we are. So go ahead and think up some comedy on this topic that you are so obsessed about.

Ok, so lets all see the gorry pics of the "B-grade" animals you have in the freezer. How long does it take for you to send me the pics???

No, I am not trying to argue with you, I am just having a little fun watching you convict yourself. You mentioned throwing a tantrum... as I understand it, typing in all caps on the internet refers to yelling (or is that only with e-mails?). If that is the case, you seem to be the one throwing a tantrum (just look at your last post). You misused the BOI with your first post when you made up all your lies to make yourself look better (like the poor victim). What Ed, and many others told me about you was a long time ago when you were still partners with him, so I believe (and now see) that he was being truethful, as you and he were still friends at the time. I also find it odd that Ken tells me all the Rinkhals you "fixed" died except 2, yet a few days ago you tell me that they are all doing well. (there goes that pattern again) Go ahead and solicite all your friends to post whatever they want about us, I did not have to call my friends and ask them to post on this thread.

Now, go have a good cry, and you will feel better.
Ray Hunter

 

[colubridman88]

UMMM WHERE THEY AT

Lets see these pics of these emanciated animals.
Jesse Smith

 

[colubridman88]

Good call

Good call chris,
IF you aren't a DVM. Where are you getting anasteshia? Whipcream bottles?
If you are performing this surgery without proper anasteshia and proper post-op care, then you are sick.VERY SICK.
Jesse Smith

 

[sychoram]

??????????

You know I don't say much on this site, because it's really hard to type when I an laughing at all you people. As usual on this board someone has taken an issue that has nothing to do with the post and made it the issue. I don't know any of these people and really think only an idiot would own a venomous snake (please this is my OPINION don't take it personally). Whether this guy is performing this surgery IS NOT the issue here. The issue is whether these animals were sick when they were shipped. I know its hard for you "old timers" to stick to the subject at hand, but lets give it the good ole college try.

Now, on to the issue at hand, where are these horrible, ever condeming, all showing pictures. Don't worry, We're all adults here, and surley can handle a few pictures to satisfy our own curiosities. And for those of you worried about the operation, maybe you could give some head shots to ease their nerves

 

[oreganus]

alll of you anti venomoiders have fun

I am no longer part of this conversation, Ray knows what he did, knows what he has lied about and knows that he is still lying. He successfully got anti venomoid people to come on here and start with me to distract to the fact that he sent sick animals. I know you are a liar Ray, it doesn't matter if anyone else believes it, you all can have a nice voyage on the "ship of fools", meanwhile I will go about my business and simply leave everyone to read the first post on this thread. It is amazing what fiction that anti venomoid people can make up all by themselves without anyone else saying anything. so far:

1) I am lying about the condition of the animals
2) I am responsible for all the animals that come near me dying
3) you are a good honest businessman and are simply a saint
4) I am also a butcher that "grabs a hacksaw" and devenomizes snakes without any anesthesia(that brings some scary pictures to mind, can't imagine seeing that)
5)and I am whatever else some idiots can make up and post.

The only thing that I did wrong was what Ms.T said, I was stupid enough to put up with your B.S. for a long time and let you rip us off for this long. The first time that we had problems with Ray, I should have not ever dealt with him again. I have nothing to argue with that, I can only say that he portrays himself as a nice guy, but when it eventually came down to it, he proved himself to be a scumbag and one of the biggest liars I have ever dealt with. The anti venomoiders and scumbag importers like Ray can keep doing what they are doing and screw and crucify until they have ran everyone that is honest and good in this business, you are only destroying it for everyone. Until then, we can just watch all of the like-minded ignorant politicians pass laws and ruin the hobby even more. This board is pretty pointless, because every time someone posts their experiences, there are always idiots crawling out of the woodwork to start slamming people without knowing all of the facts. DO YOU REALLY THINK RAY IS GOING TO ADMIT HE SENT OUT BAD ANIMALS, HE STILL HAS YET TO EVEN EXPLAIN WHY THE LAST REMAINING GABBY WAS GOING INTO SEIZURES TWO DAYS AFTER ARRIVING, HE HAS YET TO EXPLAIN WHY AFTER EIGHT WEEKS OF FEEDING THAT THE GABBIES HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING BUT SKIN AND BONES. And just so there is no confusion, I put capital letters so maybe idiots like Ray will actually notice and respond, probably lost any hope of that, but that is okay, I am done with this crap. Karma is a bitch and so wait patiently.
KEvin Smith

 

[oreganus]

oh yeah....

I will post pictures tomorrow afternoon, I had to order a scale, so I could show the weight of these animals. For some reason I thought it mattered to show the proof as best I can to the people on this forum. I don't think it matters anymore, because I am a horrible venomoid seller, but I will do it anyways.
Kevin Smith

 

[COBRAMAN]

"I will post pictures tomorrow afternoon, I had to order a scale, so I could show the weight of these animals."

Kevin this is odd, You had to "ORDER A SCALE" to prove your point......Do tell us all... how do you calculate the propper dosages for the snakes you are doing surgery on if you don't already have a scale?????? HMMMMM

As I am typing this, I am on the phone with Ken (from CA) who puts up the money for all the shipments that go to Kevin. He has just informed me that Kevin has contacted him and told him that I was bad mouthing him on this forum. Kevin scroll back through this whole post and show us all what I said bad about Ken. Just so you know, I just sat here and read this entire thread to Ken, word for word, because he does not have internet access right now. I pointed out each lie of yours to Ken (although I don't think I had to, he is an honest person that is a victim our you). He also said that you told him that I had posted in this thread that you were illegally sending venomous snakes to him in California. Show me that! I have never said anything of the sort, and to my knowledge that has not happened. So now you are lying to your own business partner. Go ahead and deny it. Go ahead and say that now Ken is lying. You are a real piece... He also told me that the ONLY thing he told you about me and Ricky is that I was going to be going off in another direction career wise, and he acknowledged that I NEVER said anything against Ricky, or ever tried to push off blaime on him. He agrees that you put your own assumptions to that. Again, Ricky is helping me with my new direction career wise. So, nice try, kevin, but now Ken has heard all of your silliness and lies, and not just the lies you wanted him to hear.

Now about the pics... Ken tells me that you sent him an e-mail with pics of some dead snake or snakes. Why can't you post those same pics here for all of us to see???? We will play your game and wait for you new scale to come in. Good luck finding a dead 5 foot gaboon for your photo shoot, there are not too many around that size. I sure wish we would get some that big, but I would not have sold a 5 footer for $75, that's for sure.

You Wrote: "we can just watch all of the like-minded ignorant politicians pass laws and ruin the hobby even more"

You don't think that what you are doing out there can be a factor in new laws??? You screw up on one of your surgeries, and someone gets envenomated, what do you think happens then? Please hurry up and get that scale, so you can start giving the correct dosages of antibiotics to the snakes after you do your cutting.

You then wrote: "HE STILL HAS YET TO EVEN EXPLAIN WHY THE LAST REMAINING GABBY WAS GOING INTO SEIZURES TWO DAYS AFTER ARRIVING"

Kevin, pretend you have some common sence here. If I am in Florida, and you are in OR, how can I possibly explain what a snake is doing in your facility?? I am not a vet!!! Maybe you gave it too much of some drug because you could not be bothered to get a scale and figure out the correct dosage. Who knows??? With all your lies to me, the readers of this thread, and worse of all your partner, I am inclined to believe that is just anouther lie of yours. Sort of like you telling Ken that we leave animals in the shipping bags without water until they are sold and shipped in the very same bag they came in (let me guess... you did not say that to Ken either, he is just lying???) How would I explain that to Florida Game Agents when they inspect our facilities??? Because a stain does not come out of a bag in the wash, that was the snake's residence? Now you are a crapologist as well? You sent it off to determine exactly how old it was? I know you did not test it at your place, because if you did not even have a scale, you certainly did not have the equipment to carbon dating of snake poop. Kid, go have that cry.

Ken, do yourself a favor, and find yourself a business associate that is honest, and won't lie to you, like this waste of space does, as I showed you in all his posts here. You deserve better!
All the very best
Ray Hunter

 

[oreganus]

Ray...

I am through with your crap. I already stated what happened with the shipment. I am not going to continue this argument with you. I will send you pics and if you feel the need, you can post them up here. You wanted me to take it away from the forum and email you privately, yet when I did, you brought it on here and slammed me for it. YOU are obviously not going to admit you are wrong and I am not going to say I lied about this when the original post(you might not remember that one, been awhile) was the complete truth. It amazes me that you are so happy to slam me about venomoids when obviously you will go way further than anyone to make a buck. You have talked to Ken and I talked to him right after you did, so he can make up his own mind who he wants to associate with, he knows who is telling the truth and who is cheating who. He is my friend and I would never cheat a friend. You keep wanting to say how Ed said this and Ed was my good buddy, I never trusted or liked that guy from the first deal I ever did with him, you can ask anyone that has spoken to me from the beginning about him. As for the validity of what Ed has said about me, go ahead and post an inquiry about him and see what pops up, he is ONE of the biggest crooks there are. The only thing you ever said truthful through this whole thing was that Ken was a good guy, you are right about that, I am proud to call him one of my good friends. As for this entire nonsense that has been dragged on and on, I am not going to post anything more. People have all of the story from both sides and they can judge for themselves. If one of us looks like an ass, then so be it, if both of us look like asses for this stupid argument, then so be it. I am tired of this crap and I don't have to defend myself any more to you or anyone else. They can learn things on their own. As for this BOI, I am only going to post about good guys that sell quality animals, I don't have time to deal with the idiots that have no idea what is going on, but just jump on here to start crap with anyone and everyone. You know what opinions are similar to and everyone has one.....
Kevin Smith

 

[Bearskin10]

Re: ??????????

First off just let me say this is my first time at this site and I am not really into snakes that much, More of a Tarantula collector myself, But I am going to give my take on this: You sound like a really Dumba** Kevin, All you have done is dodge questions. If you are such the great person why don't you answer the questions. All your screaming just makes you look like a spoiled little baby that is having a temper tantrum BOO HOO WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know I don't say much on this site, because it's really hard to type when I an laughing at all you people. As usual on this board someone has taken an issue that has nothing to do with the post and made it the issue. I don't know any of these people and really think only an idiot would own a venomous snake (please this is my OPINION don't take it personally). Whether this guy is performing this surgery IS NOT the issue here. The issue is whether these animals were sick when they were shipped. I know its hard for you "old timers" to stick to the subject at hand, but lets give it the good ole college try.

Now, on to the issue at hand, where are these horrible, ever condeming, all showing pictures. Don't worry, We're all adults here, and surley can handle a few pictures to satisfy our own curiosities. And for those of you worried about the operation, maybe you could give some head shots to ease their nerves

And then for you, I don't know what you are laughing at, Maybe Your stupidity? They are sticking to the issue at hand, They are trying to figure out if these animals are dying because this guy is butchering them, Pretty sad someone that does not know much about this subject can figure this out and you can't.

As for me I am going back to my Invert board, There is to much whining and bickering over here, Where we are just one big happy family over there.

 

[ms_terese]

Whether this guy is performing this surgery IS NOT the issue here. The issue is whether these animals were sick when they were shipped.

sychoram, reread the first few posts. The issue of the sick snakes was put to bed early because Kevin was outside the TOS. Kevin came back and argued that he got sick snakes LOTS of times, apparently thinking that gave more validity to his claim, when in fact it simply means he should be used to following the TOS by reporting any unsatisfactory animals within the time frame. In my mind, it makes him less than bright for continuing to buy animals that were consistently below his standards. Now, that's the scenario if you believe Kevin's claims. I have difficulty doing that right off the bat because A) there are 2 very different sides to this story, and B) there was no proof provided, even after numerous offers by Kevin to post pictures.

Now, it was brought up that Kevin has difficulty with many of his snakes because of venomoid surgeries. The facts about that include high rates of medical complications and mortality. If, in addition, the surgeries are being performed illegally, that would A) be an indicator of Kevin's character and therefore his credibility, and B) throw into question what the snakes died of, since I didn't see the word "necropsy" brought up anywhere. Kevin himself then tried turning the tables by claiming that everyone was siding against him because they hated venomoids. Not the case. There is a difference between people being anti-venomoid and people being outraged by someone illegally performing surgery on an animal. I believe strongly in spaying & neutering dogs and cats, but I'm going to be livid if I find out some breeder is doing it in his garage to save a couple bucks. You following me here?

So you see, the people here are not going down unrelated paths, but rather bringing up other points that may have been left out of the original post.

However, I'm glad you can find amusement on this site, laughter is a good thing.

 

[Blackwater Reptiles]

Kevin and I have a "history" regarding the illegal surgery issue, and I wanted to go on record by saying that before I post the "meat" of what I have to say here; which is...

I have purchased (one time) from ERJ, it was three or four (old-timer's disease I guess) Malayan pit vipers, Callesolasma rhodostoma (I think I spelled that correctly, but I haven't had my coffee yet).... The snakes were advertised on another reptile web site, and I called in an order for "all they had." My *only* disappointment came as a result of the fact that they had only females left to sell. The snakes arrived in good health, for imported animals, and they all ate ravenously on mice. I acquired a male from another seller and managed to get the females to produce eggs for me the following breeding season, without having to dose them with meds.

I will refrain from further comment on the legality or ethics of performing surgery for profit at home. Kevin already knows how I feel about the issue and it won't do anything to improve the quality of this thread.

I would buy from ERJ again.

 

[Mustangrde1]

Just checking the facts again. Kevin sends Ken pictures and does not post them here or send to you. Something about a seller not having a cam to send pics to prospective buyers or post on the internet for sale strikes me as odd.

Florida Game and Freshwater fish commission has a habit of pulling inspections on animal dealers facilities especially venomous dealers. With the Laws as strict as they are for providing for animals well being in under Florida codes I dont thing an officer would allow them to be kept in bags 8 weeks or more. I could be wrong but doubt it.

Have to buy a scale to get the right weight. of what your narcotics? Give us all a break now its been what 3 weeks almost. Even if these animals arrived in bad shape and dieing 3 weeks past is just no longer believable 3 weeks almost or there abouts is more than enough time to kill an animal and have it emanciated.

Out of 20 rinkals 2 survived your surgical alteration perhaps its time to inform Oregon state officials of what is going on and I think I will.

You have not answered any questions but skirted the issues kevin you refuse to prove any of what you say. The fact is you have bought thousands of dollars from ERJ you know there TOS and you violated it plain simple to the fact. At this point I am very inclined to believe the animals were in good shape you went to put them under your chainsaw and killed them with to much or not enough medication and are wanting freebies and or your money back.

The issue of venomoids does come up not because of peoples hatred for it but because you or one of your associates preform the procedure. With its very high rate of mortality how can anyone believe what you say without instant proof upon receipt of the animals.

Scott Bice

 

[colubridman88]

KEVIN

HEY KEVIN. WHERE ARE THESE PICS. WE HAVEN'T GOT THE FULL STORY HERE. WHERE ARE THE PICS. IF YOU POST THEM, WITH WEIGHTS AND EVERYTHING, IT MIGHT MAKE SOME OF US THINK TWICE BEFORE DEALING WITH ERJ. DO YOU REALLY HAVE THEM. YOU KEEP SAYING YOU ARE NOT A LIAR.PROVE IT.COME ON, YOUR CREDIBILITY IS ON THE LINE HERE.

JESSE SMITH