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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Exotics-r-us/ Ray Hunter/ Ricky D

AND FOR YOU ROB......

You can kiss my ass, because you cannot get information on an unlisted number on the whitepages. The only way you can get information on that number is if you have the phone number and you know the name the phone is registered to. I am not stupid, I simply posted a picture of my daughter to show that this affects real people and it was wrong to put my family in danger over a stupid argument.
Kevin Smith
 
Wow, there are people that are threatening you and your family because you produce in venomoids? Maybe it is just me, but if I was engaged in something that threatened my family, I would no longer do it for their sake.
 
Okay, this is the last thing...

Okay, I should not have lost my temper and said what I said to Rob, I will admit that and I am enough of man to admit it. I have already admitted to being in a childish fight with Ray and it was stupid and alot of the things we were arguing about had no bearing on the situation. Okay, now this is the very last thread I will post on this thread and I am not going to argue the venomoid thing any longer. I didn't do anything illegal and I am not going to post on here that I did, so everyone can believe what they want, just like they can believe whatever they want about the beginning of this thread. This has entirely gotten out of hand and that is all of our faults, including myself. I cannot and will not explain the specifics of why it endangered my family by Ray posting my personal information on the net. But I will give an example so that maybe some of you can use that keen imagination that you like to use so well:

Okay, read this and then think of all kinds of scenarios about why this would be dangerous for personal information to be given out without permission:

A family lives somewhere and an ex husband of your wife has threatened to kill your wife and everyone in the house. So you are forced to move somewhere and do your best to hide your location and personal information to try and ensure the safety of your family.

OR

You had to testify against someone in a trial and they are willing and have threatened to hurt you and your family if they ever find you

OR

any other similar situation that you read about in the paper,experienced yourself, or have seen on the news.

NOW IMAGINE IF YOU WERE IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS AND A BUSINESS GAVE OUT YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION AND YOU WERE FORCED TO PACK YOUR FAMILY AND MOVE AND GO THROUGH ALL OF THE STRESS AND WORRY BECAUSE SOMEONE CAUSED ALL OF THIS OVER A CHILDISH ARGUMENT. If you can't believe that any of this is possible, pick up newspaper,search the net, or watch the news and find one of the several incidents in which horrible things happen to people because the wrong person just happened to get the information. I am not making this stuff up, it happens everyday, so whatever my reasons, I have tried to explain the best I can the situation, and it did put my family in danger for doing something like that for no reason. And if I simply sell venomoids or had a bad experience and got in an argument with someone, it still does not give them the right to do what they did and for others to make up things about me to justify it.
Kevin Smith
 
Kevin,

I can understand your concerns but like I said before, with a little research on the internet anyone's information can be found whether it is unlisted or not. If you talk to Rich you might be able to have hmi remove your information and the picture of your daugter but you will have to talk to thim about it.
 
Here's a little gem of an email sent to myself and Rich by Kevin. It seems he wants the entire thread regarding him deleted, or he will sue...blah, blah, blah. Sorry Kev, but there's not a snowball's chance in hell of this entire thread disappearing over one reply.

Yep, put Kevin Smith on the short and undistinguished list of legal beagles who think they can intimidate us.

DEAR WEBSLAVE,

YOU ARE TO TAKE THE THREAD ABOUT RAY HUNTER ENTIRELY OFF OF YOUR SITE OR I WILL BE CALLING MY ATTORNEY AND WILL BRING A LEGAL SUIT AGAINST YOU AND RAY HUNTER FOR PUTTING MY FAMILY IN DANGER BY ALLOWING RAY HUNTER TO POST MY HOME ADDRESS. BOTH YOU AND RAY HUNTER WILL BE HELD RESPONSIBLE IF MY FAMILY AND I ARE HARMED OR HARASSED IN ANY WAY AND WILL BE LIABLE FOR ANY AND ALL COSTS ENTAILED IN RECTIFYING THE SITUATION INORDER TO KEEP MY FAMILY AND MYSELF SAFE. THIS WILL INCLUDE BUT WILL NOT BE LIMITED TO: MOVING COSTS, PHONE COSTS, LAWYER FEES
Click to expand...

Kevin,
1) I despise threats, and I don't jump at your command. I could care less about you ordering me around or attempting to intimidate me. Try asking nicely next time, and myself or Rich might be inclined to help. Try to bully us into action, and you'll be sorely disappointed with the results.
2) You may want to refresh yourself on the applicable laws. Faunaclassifieds.com bears no liability for what has been posted, as per 47 USC 230(c)(1).
3) Believe it or not, even though your number is unlisted, it and your address are still easily obtainable to anyone with $50 to spend.
 
Kevin

I tried to be pleasant last night and ask you to explain how you would feel as a bussiness man if your TOS was broke and or you knew someone was doing something that could kill a animal how you would feel. You did not respond yet found yet another reason to not answer questions.

Now for the record and so there is no doubt The person handling that BIG GABOON with Ray HUNTER in the pic he posted is me and in over a year and half that is the biggest gabby they ever had in.Nice picture by the way.

Just a quick glimpse of what i can remember off hand from ERJ in the past year or so

Approx 10 redtail boas "status" all alive and doing great

Approx 7 Ball pythons "status" eating me out of house androdents

1 Amazon tree boa "status" alive and doing great

2 Asian vine snakes "status" Breed and now feeding on rodent and will breed again

1 african bush snake "feeding great" very healthy

3 flying snakes all doing very well and feeding on demand

2 gold tegu's can we say garbage cans for food

1 white liped python Dead after purchase of unknow reason way beyound TOS and possibly of internal parasites.

2 egyptian cobras fantastic animals and absolute joys to work with

1 . 6 foot EDB DANG RABBITS are expensive food items

1 Large 4 foot + Gaboon viper Died most likely from age as it was feeding and had been properly cared for and all worming had been completed. And yes I will get another from them

So lets see that is just what i can remember without coffee. All animals were wild caught and all animals were treated and set up properly. Some were actually "B" grade and in bad health on arrival but I still purchased them and now they are "A" grade after some sheds and medications. I know damn well with imports you take a chance on a million and one possible problems but with " proper " care and attention you can also get diamonds out of doodoo.

Now for some fun . HOW THE HELL DID YOU DO CPR ON A COBRA MOUTH TO MOUTH? I was there when you called so I dont need to believe Ray made it up matter of fact i was laughing so hard i almost wet my pants. Do you know how stupid that was even if you used a tube to blow in its mouth lmao you probably killed it from that but oh ya after 4 hours you brought it back to life ya right i got a bridge to sell ya also.

You also said that 1 of the 20 Rinkals he sent you was dead on arrival and ray told you send it back you never did why is that " possibly playing dead " Now atleast with a rinkals you can get it to play dead and take a pic they do like to roll over and faint death". Yes you didn't post it here that was another phone call you made.

I would really have liked to know the truth about the animals but I think I already do. Nothing was wrong with them until after you got them and as none of my animals some that were from the same shipment possibly are doing fine and are very healthy. I really now do honestly believe you did somethinig or someone did something that killed them.

One last side note. Kevin most if not all the importers / sellers in Florida purchase animals from each other so you can buy from Glades, or Jay Eaton or Burgandy if you want but who knows those might have come from ERJ originally its called WHOLESALE BUYING.

Bottom line you lost animals for whatever reason that is a shame and i feel bad for the animals but after all this I am no longer concerned about my collection it is very obvious you would not answer even ONE question that anyone asked you. If anything you stirred the venomoid topic even more. I firmly believe you recieved Wild Caught imports that may have been a little underweight which is typical of wild caughts. You then went to make them voids and killed them.

Your character speaks volumes. Rob Trennor did nothing but point out a simple fact and you attacked him. You idiot that is one of the best and most respected gentlemen in the Herp bussiness and one who i know first hand has gone above and beyound to help people even those that did not purchase from him. He cares about the animals and is beyound reproach.

Kevin go crawl back in you hack shack you are proven to be a " BAD GUY"

Scott Bice
 
First off, let me appologize to KEN HARBART and or the moderators for doing something that would cause Kevin to launch an attack against you or the BOI. Feel free to remove the post with Kevi'ns information if it is in any way a violation of your sit'es rules. If possible, please leave my information listed.


Kevin,
1): Before posting the requested info I first verified that I could get it from the internet first (as others have told you).

2): You lie again... The address I posted on myself was my personal address, not any company's address, the phone number is my personal cell phone, not a company phone. Get your facts straight before you make more of a fool of yourself.

3): Threaten ME all you wish (I will post the e-mail Keven sent me shortly), and you and ken can threaten to sue all you want, but (a) I consulted an attorney prior to the post, and was advised that as long as it is not a problem with the rules of the site (at which point they have the option to delete the post) there was no law being violated. My records are public information. And since venomous snakes were sent to you, your info is public record with both PBI and PDX as well. The bottom line is that I made the post on my personal time (not work time), from my personal computer, from both my personal records as well as internet info, and posted my personal info and not company info. So your beef should be with me, not Ricky or Exotic Reptiles Jungle. Funny how you and Ken are NOW calling and crying to Ricky and not me. This entire thread is full of your personal attacks on ME, not Ricky or his company, but now all of a sudden you think it is a company issue. Make upu your mind.

4): Answer everyone's question (oh yeah, I forgot, You can't answer any direct questions) EXACTLY WHY WOULD YOUR LIFE BE IN DANGER??? Just because you produce venomoids?? You must be engaged in some sort of illegal activity if your life is endangered. If your life, and the life of your family is so endangered, then WHY WOULD YOU POST A PIC OF YOUR DAUGHTER ON THE INTERNET????? That is stupid!

5) I was informed that you are affraid to admit that you are doing the venomoid surgeries because you keep "tools and drugs" that are considered illegal in your state. If anything, it sounds like your freedom is endangered from local and federal law enforcement.

6): I can't help but notice that you still are adoiding all the questions asked to you. And where is the pic of the 5 foot gaboon??? I realize I gave you a littl excuse to be distracted from the questions, but go ahead and give us the answers to the questions, and show that 5 foot gaboon.

7): The below is an exact copy of the e-mail Kevin sent me:

"but I will personally email you about this matter. You are the biggest
piece of [bleep] on the face of the earth. You just put my family's address on
the net from COMPANY records that I never gave you permission to do in any
way. Nor does it say anything about releasing personal information on the
company website. I am sure that you can figure out what you have just done.
If you can't, I will tell you, you have not just put my life in danger,
You have also put my 8 year old daughter's and my lovely wife's life in
danger. It is no big deal for you because you put the company address. If
any thing is done to my family because of this, you will be held responsible
for it, not just by the law, but by me and trust me, you will be sorry if it
comes to that. I hope you have children Ray, so you can start to grasp what
consequences your actions have just done. I don't care about the animal's
or the money, human life is worth more than that, but yet you somehow didn't
think about that or simply didn't care. It is amazing that you can act like
you are a christian and then do what you have just done to show that you
have no respect for people's lives Ray. That is more important than
money,animals, or anything else. I just cannot believe that you are that
low that you would give out my personal information to strangers. My family
is my life and I have a great respect for life, but obviously you missed the
importance of it when you committed the crime which you committed. It
didn't cost you anything for the argument on the net, you weren't paying
back for the animals that died, so why risk innocent people's lives??? I
don't understand that Ray, I really don't. You tell Ricky to give me a call
and we can see what he has to say about you endangering the financial
wellbeing of it by doing what you did. Giving out personal records to
people without any written or any other permission. I printed out the entire
thread in which you admitted to it. So you better hope nothing happens to
myself or my family, since you are the one that put their lives in danger.
Kevin"

Let me end this post with the long standing question: DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT PERFORM VENOMOID SURGERIES???
 
Incidently, I never threatened you in any mannor, however YOU are making threats against me (I quote your own e-mail):

"If
any thing is done to my family because of this, you will be held responsible
for it, not just by the law, but by me and trust me, you will be sorry if it
comes to that. "

Makeing a threat on the internet is a crime!!!

Now back to those questions.
 
Ken (in CA) and I just had a pleasant conversation with thre results being that Both Kevin and I will e-mail Ken and Ritch (site moderators) and request that the post with both mine and Kevin's contact info be deleted, and Kevin will agree to let this thread die, and I will do the same. If Kevin will stop his posts, than I will also.
Blessings all
Ray Hunter
 
okay,

I will agree to that. And also, if I said anything in this stupid argument that would lead you to believe that you had to push it that far and put my family at risk, I do apologize. The childish argument(on both our parts) was stupid and we both should have ended it within the first two or three posts. I am honestly apologizing and I could really care less about this whole thread or who did what to who at this point. I am sure that we both have lost at this point, and that is fine it is our faults. Although I could bring up points and argue with the last post, I am not going to. Obviously something went wrong with our last business transaction and no one on here will know who is telling the truth or who is lying. We just should have ended this about 23 pages back and saved the childish argument. As far as Ken the moderator is concerned, I don't care if you leave this thread, I only ask that you remove my personal information, that is fair enough to ask. It doesn't matter the reasons, it is a simple request, since I haven't ripped anyone off and there is no reason for anyone to have my information unless I give it to them.
Kevin Smith
 
Okay folks, at the request of both Ray and Kevin (who asked nicely this time around), the reply in question has been removed.

I must restate, however, that the removal of a post/reply from the BOI is a rare exception, and is an issue that I pondered heavily before arriving at my final decision.
 
I KNEW KEVIN COULD NOT DO IT....

Ken (moderator), I agreed to lay off Kevin IF he let the issue die, but all he did is switch to a different thread and start again, so obviously he has not had enough. The below posts are from "Reptile Ethics, When do we say thats enough - in the General Business Discussions forum of FaunaClassifieds Forums."
 
THIS IS KEVIN'S POST

First, let me say that there is a very good debate going on and there are some very good points being brought up. It is amazing that the original post was so ignorant and yet after the flaming war died down, there is a very logical debate continuing. Now, as for the accusations of illegal activity, I find it amazing that it is now stated as a fact and people have gone as far as to say that "I said that I did this" and " I said I did that", when in reality I never said I did anything and all of this arose from a simple post of a bad experience I had with a wholesaler. All of the other rumors and here-say were brought up to take the attention away from the original post, which was done successfully. It is kind of ridiculous that some people have chosen to take it so far and have gone to such lengths to try and make their accusations facts. For example, I have gotten threatening phonecalls and harassment ever since my phone number was posted on the net, I have been turned in for god knows what over rumors and accusations that I never agreed with or confirmed, I also had a mysterious person impersonate me over the phone and try and get my utilities and other accounts changed,closed, and messed with since my information was posted. I don't want to start a flame war, I am not going to comment further on any of that. As for the debate at hand, there are alot of comments that I agree with on this thread. Once you get past the rants and holier than thou statements. I think the bottom line is that we all have different views and ways of going about this hobby. We will all never agree totally about everything because we are all different, but it is good that we do agree on some of it, there is hope for this hobby yet.
Kevin Smith
 
I responded with:

OK, Kevin
Kevin, since you have decided to violate our agreement to end the former tread by coming on this one and making direct and indirect references to the former thread (and our business), I guess you were not finished with that old thread. Even though you did not DIRECTLY mention my name or company name, EVERYONE who reads this thread knows exactly who and what you are refering to, so I guess I am back in it...

You wrote:
>>Did I ever state that I did the surgeries, if I didn't, wouldn't that make it second hand and rumors since it was others that don't know me and have no idea what is going on that were accusing me?

No, Kevin, you never did directly state that you are or ARE NOT doing the surgeries? You were very careful to intentionally avoid the question as it was asked you repeatedly. So once again, ARE YOU, OR ARE YOU NOT DOING YOUR OWN VENOMOID SURGERIES???

It is NOT hearsay for me to post that YOU have told me that you trained under Ritchie Rich, and that YOU are doing your own venomoid surgeries. YOU have told me that on many occasions (unless you are willing to post that you lied). Ken also has stated that you do your surgeries. Is he lying also? Ken said you altered the monocle cobras within days of their arrival to you, and that they were doing fine. How you medicated them without your scale that you lent out is beyond me (or did you?). If you are NOT doing the surgeries, than why not simply post your statement to that fact??? Why let people bother you for something you are not doing, when all you would have to do is state that you do not do venomoid surgeries??? Some of us will know better, but some will not. If someone were accusing me of doing something that I know was not correct, I would clearly state that the accusation is false (as indeed I did with your accusation about the condition of the snakes I last sent you). If you choose to take a "maybe I do, maybe I don't" stance on the issue, you have to expect the responces you claim to get. So again, here is your chance to clear it up....DO YOU DO YOUR OWN VENOMOID SURGERIES??? HAVE YOU EVER????

You wrote:
"I know that the person the original post was about, is your friend and you have already showed greatly that you are going to defend him,"

Kevin, Ray Goushaw is a client of mine. Don't try to make it more than it is just because he does not agree with you. When he does not agree with me, he clearly states so, so rest assured that his opinions and posts have nothing to do with our business relationship. I never asked him to go on the BOI and post anything (unlike you said you were going to do on the former thread... You said you were going to have your friends post a bunch of crap about me or ERJ, but I noticed nobody came to your defence there). Just because someone has an opposing view from yours, does not make it a conspiracy against you. If you are doing something that you are not proud to stand behind, than maybe you should stop doing it. You should not have to dodge questions about what you do.

You Wrote:
"As for admitting to anything, why should I agree with the accusations?? I don't think you ever urged your friend to tell the truth about the condition of the animals sent out. "

Kevin, Ray did not have to ask me about the animals I sell, because he is here so frequently, and sees the animals here. That is why there was no question as to the condition of the animals I sent you. He knows how I do business, and knows I would not send questionable animals to anyone. He has seen me refuse to sell animals that came in poor condition. You, on the other hand, had twenty something pages of thread to prove your point by posting the pics of the animals I sent you that you claimed died, and all you did is lie, and post a pic of a Gaboon that looked like you MIGHT have tried to alter. What ever happened to the pic of the 5 foot gaboon that only weighed 4 pounds??? I would still like to see that one. Far to many people come in my facility for me to keep and sell sick animals. We are inspected regularly by a wildlife agent that does not even like venomous snakes, and would love nothing better than to put ALL venomous dealers in Florida out of business.
So to answer your silly remark, Ray did not have to "urge" me to tell the truth about animals I sent, because he already knows that I do not send sick animals.

You wrote:
" it is nice to see what rational debate has come from such an irrational original post."

Kevin, keep in mind who started that "irrational" post.... you did, and check your motives. You wanted to hurt me, then were upset, irrational, and embarrassed because your lies and game backfired on you.

Now, we can take this to any level you wish. If you wish to stick to the topic of venomoids, and leave me and the origional thread out of this like you said (and lied again) you would, then I will have nothing more to say. Otherwise, you are the one choosing to restart your "irrational" thread again, not me. It's up to you.
Let it go, or lets go...you decide. Now when yu call Ken crying, remember that YOU are the one that re-started this, not me.

Ray Hunter
 
Anyways Ray...
I am not going to get into a flamewar with you Ray, you have proved that you will go to no end to try and get people to believe your lies. I never mentioned a name, I was simply answering a question, but it seems that the Rays are teaming up, so I am not going to even get in the middle of it. It is also funny that you have to mention so many other people's names and try to briing them into this, why Ray? Go ahead and rant and rave, but I am not going to play this stupid game with you. It is amazing that this was a nice intelligent debate and discussion and then you come on here to start crap. Post your lies Ray and have fun. this is a rational debate and you obviously bring no rational logic to the conversation. Have fun, bye.
Kevin Smith

PS-"DO YOU DO YOUR OWN VENOMOID SURGERIES??? HAVE YOU EVER????"

>>Do you send out sick animals???? Answer that Ray before you demand answers from me. Ofcourse Raymond is happy with his animals and happy with you, he can go down there and pick through the crap to find a few good animals. The rest of the crap animals are what you send everyone else that can't come down there personally. You have started so much crap over the first post on the original thread, if someone reads through the first thread, they can see how you brought up all kinds of stuff that had nothing to do with the animals you send out. You even said that it wasn't your fault and that I was lying, that is why I didn't post pictures. But then when I posted pictures, you went far and beyond because you couldn't come up with an excuse when there were pictures. Have fun Ray and Raymond, I am leaving this thread, I really don't feel like having a flamewar with them.
KEvin Smith
 
SO ONCE AGAIN, I ASK KEVIN THE SIMPLE QUESTION THAT HE HAS BEEN DODGING FOR SO LONG..

Kevin I will DIRECTLY answer your question of:
">>Do you send out sick animals???? Answer that Ray before you demand answers from me."

NO I DO NOT!!! and it appears that you are the only one that seems to think so. I have said that over and over but you are still trying to use that to avoid one simple question MANY people have asked you. And that is DO YOU or HAVE YOU DONE YOUR OWN VENOMOID SURGERIES???? I see you are still trying to side step that question. Why can't you simply type "YES" or "NO"???? Stop making a bigger fool of yourself by trying to rehash an issue you lost a long time ago. We know you killed the snakes trying to slice and dice them, and want to put the blame on me 10 days after you got the animals. This has nothing to do with Ray Goushaw, and you know that. I did not start the crap, you did by once again going back on your word to drop the old thread. I told both you and Ken that IF you dropped it, I would, but you once again lied. You can call me a liar all you want, but you offer no proof. All anyone has to do to see how often you lie is go back and read all your posts. The proof is right there. Just because a proven liar like you has called me a liar (among other childish names) does not make it so, but all the proof that you lie is in your own posts. You even admitted lying in your last post when you wrote:

"You even said that it wasn't your fault and that I was lying, that is why I didn't post pictures"

You are right, it is not my fault that you lie so often. You can't post the pics, because you know it was all a big lie. Again, I dare you to prove me wrong by posting the pic of the 5 foot gaboon that only weighed 4 pounds. If you sent me such an animal, I would have posted that pic so fast your head would spin. You can't because you know it was another one of your many lies. PROVE ME WRONG!!!!!

Now, then Kevin, I have done as you asked, and answered your question, Now how about you answering, DO YOU DO YOUR OWN VENOMOID SURGERIES??? Go ahead, again, I challenge you to answer a simple question. I bet you can't do it. Prove me wrong to everyone.

DO YOU DO YOUR OWN VENOMOID SURGERIES???

Ray Hunter
 
Kevin going down for the 385th time!

We know you killed the snakes trying to slice and dice them, and want to put the blame on me 10 days after you got the animals."

>> who is this "we" Ray? you got a mouse in your pocket? I think most people that saw you totally lose it after I posted pictures of skinny dead unaltered snakes that came from you. As far as me being the only one with problems with you, NO Ray, I am not the only one. But most people just don't want to put up with all of your lies and crap.

The answer to your question really doesn't matter, If I say no, you are going to call me a liar, if I say yes, you are going to call me a butcher, and besides that, it really is not the issue at hand. The debate was whether or not people agreed with venomoids as a whole and if people are qualified to do them. I never brought you into this, YOUR FRIEND RAYMOND DID, he was the one that mentioned your name in the first place, not me. But I suppose even though you can read it for yourself, you are still going to call me a liar.

Well later Ray, I am going to go butcher some turkey.
Kevin Smith
 
You wrote:
" I think most people that saw you totally lose it after I posted pictures of skinny dead unaltered snakes that came from you"

Kevin, this lie does not even warrant a reply. Just go back to the BOI and re-read it for yourself (or maybe you better get a kifd with better reading comprehension skills to read it to you). Since you obviously wanted the issue re-opened, I re-opened the origional thread so you would not have to strain your little mind to find it and refresh your little memory. Now people can read it and see who the liar really is. Several people commented on the fact that the gaboon in that pic appears to have been either altered, or died in the process. Where is that pic you promised of the 5 foot gaboon that weighed 4 pounds???? I see you are STILL trying to side step that one.

You wrote: "I never brought you into this, YOUR FRIEND RAYMOND DID, he was the one that mentioned your name in the first place, not me. "


YOU brought me into this by bringing up the thread you said you were done with (NUMEROUS TIMES). Obviously you have the memory retension of a 3 year old, so let me remind you:

"when in reality I never said I did anything and all of this arose from a simple post of a bad experience I had with a wholesaler. All of the other rumors and here-say were brought up to take the attention away from the original post, which was done successfully"

This was before Ray Goushaw posted my name!!!! Then: "I know that the person the original post was about, is your friend and you have already showed greatly that you are going to defend him, but you don't have first hand knowledge of anything I do, so therefore you are not qualified to state that what you accuse me of is a fact"

Jogging your little memory yet??? No? well here's more: "I don't think you ever urged your friend to tell the truth about the condition of the animals sent out. "

Kevin, these are YOUR posts!!! And like I said in my first post on this thread, Direct or Indirect, it is reference to me, and the readers know it.

You wrote: "
The answer to your question really doesn't matter, If I say no, you are going to call me a liar, if I say yes, you are going to call me a butcher,"

Kevin, I already am calling you a liar, and the proof is in your posts. So why should you care what I call you. If you are not doing the surgery, state that for everyone, not just me. I already know that you are, it is others that want to hear you say it. If you are not guilty of a crime that someone accused you of, would'nt you say so??? or would you play "maybe yes, maybe no" because you are afraid someone might call you a liar. You ARE a butcher... Those of us who know your record already know this.

Yow wrote: "and besides that, it really is not the issue at hand. The debate was whether or not people agreed with venomoids as a whole and if people are qualified to do them"

You CLEARLY have shown us on the origional thread that you are far from qualified to perform surgery. You, who did not even realize (by your own admission) that you needed a scale to propperly administer antibiotics to a snake. You, who did not realize that pre and post op anitbiotics should be given to an animal that you are about to cut open. No wonder you killed those snakes!

Since your memory is so short, I will re-ask these at the end so you will be able to remember:

a) DO YOU or HAVE YOU DONE YOUR OWN VENOMOID SURGERIES?

b) ARE YOU GOING TO POST THE PIC YOU PROMISED OF THE 5 FOOT GABOON THAT ONLY WEIGHED 4 POUNDS???

Ray Hunter

ps- feel free to refresh your memory of the origional thread located at: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/for...&threadid=28577
 
Kevin....

If you look at the other posts which this refers to... General Discussions/Reptile Ethics. You will find that someone else(Jesse) brought this up. NO NAMES WERE MENTIONED TO BEGIN WITH! No one on this end had anything to do with his actions. I even refrained from mentioning your name. Didn't catch that did you???? I felt that it wouldn't be fair..Even to you!! From what I understood the whole thing between you and Ray H. was done. I didn't feel the need to bring you up(Directly) again. You were the one that came back on and opened it up again. It WAS just an ethics discussion dealing with "venomoids". If you feel that Ray H. and I were "ganging up" on you I'm sorry to hear that. I was simply stating what I know of Ray H. and ERJ. I also pointed out the "surgery issue" due to the fact that it could have bearing on the animals and the post. I never called anyone on you. Or as far as I know neither did Ray H. Others felt strongly enough about it to do so. You should simply have answered the questions and left it at that. As Ray H. posted.... I was not for him or you. I was stating the facts as I knew them. You simply made the matter look very suspicious. Please refrain from the name calling and accusing Ray H. of selling the "junk left at his shop". It's getting back to name calling. No one has it out for you.. Just trying to get to the bottom of this or LET IT DIE OUT!! Last but, not least.. I do not think it's fair for anyone to threaten you or cause you problems. However, you did bring a good deal of this upon yourself. If you had simply been patient, followed ERJ's TOS and provided solid proof.. I do think that you and ERJ could have settled this before it got to the BOI. If that had happened all of this would not have come out on your end. Slow down and use a cooler head. Now if you think the previous is an attack on you you are really paranoid. I even gave you the benifit of the doubt in previous posts. Enough!
 
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