Experience with KINGSNAKE Website

[Junkyard]

They seem to make exceptions for established lines - such as "Abbott Okeekee" or "Lemke line Axanthic" but those are well established lines.

Anyway - that's my two cents. It's fair to disagree with the TOS but if an add is pulled for a TOS violation, then it was fairly pulled.

The issue is not selling animals that are from a certain line. They pulled an ad that was honest about who was involved in a breeding project, then justified their actions by saying that the animals belonged to the other party. They are sticking their nose were it does not belong.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

The issue is not selling animals that are from a certain line. They pulled an ad that was honest about who was involved in a breeding project, then justified their actions by saying that the animals belonged to the other party. They are sticking their nose were it does not belong.

There good at that over at KS. I think everyone knows that. LOL

Hell they booted me a few years back, I mean deleted my in my entirety, just because I spoke out to one of their "knighted" regulars. That's how they operate. If you donate enough money, you are a god. The more you donate, the bigger god you are, the more you get away with.

I don't like that place much any more. I refused to pay for their classifieds for years..........but, like mentioned, they do get the traffic to sell animals. And that forced me to break my vow this year, and pay for a sub to the classifieds. As a result, I sold a couple animals. The only animals that have sold for me through any classifieds this year in fact.

Like I said, I don't care for that site much anymore. But it does serve it's purpose, just as the BOI serves it's purpose.


My 2¢
Rick

 

[nocturnal1]

I read *almost* the entire thread and I see mention of other good herping sites but no names given (I may have missed it). What other highly recommended sites are there?

 

[FunkyRes]

I read *almost* the entire thread and I see mention of other good herping sites but no names given (I may have missed it). What other highly recommended sites are there?

Some of them offer some similar features as this site and therefore it would be kind of rude to mention them here.

 

[NorthernRegius.com]

I read *almost* the entire thread and I see mention of other good herping sites but no names given (I may have missed it). What other highly recommended sites are there?

Take the time to look for the names (as they are mentioned) but we've been told by Webslave not to go there again as to do so is a bit too off topic.

 

[snakemom1961]

I'm one of those "Lurkers". I do enjoy reading the BOI and rarely comment(as you can see by the number of posts I have). But I can see why some would not want to come here to comment for the "Pack mentality" of this place at times. Heaven forbid you make a spelling error or forget to space your post into paragraphs. That to me is what alot of people may be turned off by. The petty little things that regulars will jump on, if there is nothing else to get riled about.

Either way I will continue to be a Lurker until the time I choose to buy and I will come here to research the breeder and see what kind of record he/she has.

 

[critical bill]

I'm one of those "Lurkers". I do enjoy reading the BOI and rarely comment(as you can see by the number of posts I have). But I can see why some would not want to come here to comment for the "Pack mentality" of this place at times. Heaven forbid you make a spelling error or forget to space your post into paragraphs. That to me is what alot of people may be turned off by. The petty little things that regulars will jump on, if there is nothing else to get riled about.

Either way I will continue to be a Lurker until the time I choose to buy and I will come here to research the breeder and see what kind of record he/she has.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=620058&postcount=79

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Mr. Harb

Would it be possible for you to post copies of both the original ad text and the Email you sent after the ad was pulled?

 

[Chance]

therefore it would be kind of rude to mention them here.

Isn't it a bit odd to complain about KS not allowing mention of competing websites there, then chastising someone for doing the same thing here? Not that you, FunkyRes, did the complaining about KS, but just in general.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

There is not a rule but there is a perfectly good forum to discuss other websites in general.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=467

 

[shrap]

Isn't it a bit odd to complain about KS not allowing mention of competing websites there, then chastising someone for doing the same thing here?

No one said anything about not mentioning other websites here on Fauna. Just refrain from doing so in this thread. To try and keep this thread on topic

If anyone wishes to discuss other sites there is a forum on this site just for that reason. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=467

Hope that helps clear that up.

 

[Chance]

I suppose it could be my misinterpretation of what FunkyRes posted, but considering he stated that it was rude because "...some offer similar features of this site..." and nothing about this thread specifically, it seemed to me that he was using the same logic that KS uses when they forbid people from 'advertising' competing sites by mentioning them.

I agree that the rules there may be a bit over the top at times. I've even had many ads removed for various TOS violations, and I'm a mod for the chat - so it'd be hard to see how there's much favoritism going on. As a few people have already said, by using the site you agree to whatever TOS are present. The problem comes down to individual interpretation of those TOS. It isn't a robot removing your ads or booting you, it's a person, and that person may have had a long day at work and is trying to quickly clean things up. Mistakes are made, just as they are here and on every other site. The thing with KS though is because it is such a huge site commercially, they have to be very strict with the TOS's to keep everyone's rear out of hot water, legally speaking.

To the OP, if you feel your account was wrongfully terminated, instead of going off on this crusade, I recommend you do one of two things: either refute the charges with your cc company as others have suggested, or try a little bit more diplomacy.

 

[kmurphy]

I suppose it could be my misinterpretation of what FunkyRes posted, but considering he stated that it was rude because

FunkyRes said it was being rude not that it was against the rules. That's his opinion, and mine too.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

I don't know about anyone else but I would still like to see the original ad text as well as copies of the Emails the OP sent to Kingsnake.

How about it Mr. Harb?

 

[nocturnal1]

I appreciate that the architects of the Fauna site have a thread specifically for discussion about other, e.g. competing, websites out there. It may have been inappropriate to ask about them on this thread (I'm still learning the rules), but I do not believe it is rude. In fact, I think it is very wise of Fauna to allow members to discuss other sites (in a designated thread) so that FC can keep pulse on members and their opinions of this and other sites. That is how businesses improve - tactically and professionally. Just my opinion.

 

[Wrongbeach]

My last response on this subject....

This has created quite the thread which I hadnt anticipated.

I appreciate all of the private emails that I have gotten on the subject from all of you that were to intimidated to speak out in public about KS for fear of getting banned yourself. I will refrain from posting the original ad and any emails that were sent back and forth between myself and KS or Jeff Barringer. It really would accomplish nothing and really I dont have time in my life for drama in this little industry, Im much to busy in my life with other things that mean much more to me.

I have dealt with this through my credit card company and will not be talking about KS again as I made a personal decision based on my on principles that even if FOR NOW KS has the traffic, I really dont care about selling one snake ever again, Ill survive. Also there ARE other sites out there that I think have a great chance of creating the next generation of reptile community websites that KS cant touch. Nobody stays on top forever and from someone who works with some of the best web community programmers in this country, KS is a very old code, very cluttered and very set in their ways...and Im thankful for that as I see the future and they are not it.

To Jeff who wants to see these emails and original ad, Im sorry I will not be able to post those here. Im not sure why you want these so bad unless you just like to get involved in drama. I suppose you are trying to imply that you dont believe that this happened like I said? Sorry that is the case however I dont feel i really have to prove myself. I know what happened. Many "Big Breeders" who have befriended me know what happened. Ask around and Im sure youll hear the story from people who actually know and are not in KS's pocket and therefore dont have a vested interest in keeping the "elite club" alive over there.

Im sure there will be those that are going to attack me and say "see he wouldnt post the emails or ad here on Fauna"...oh well...again I could care less...I know where Im coming from and thats all I care about...not others opinions. I hope you can understand my point of view and if not....oh well, dont care.

everybody have a great holiday weekend and I pray for the best in New Orleans...

Paul Harb

 

[frankykeno]

I've had all of my posts showing photos of my animals deleted on KS... I'm so used to having my logo (and insist on having my logo on the photos), that I didn't think about. Seems their TOS doesn't want you "advertising" in their forums. Okay, I get that. But I don't want scammers to use my photos claiming they have an animal for sale that they do have... so I tried to get some info on what would be an acceptable "mark" to put on my photos- never got a reply. Each place is different I guess.

There's other places to work from & in the end you'll find one that fits. Fauna here is FREE to post ads & I believe it's a great site that tries very hard to be fair to it's users, big & small.

Am I to understand that you are not allowed to watermark your own photos of your own snakes with your own company name at KS?

 

[Jim O]

You know Paul, for someone who is so serious about this site as to say the following:

Im serious about getting financially involved with Fauna, FUANA NEEDS A MAKE OVER....if you were to change the interface of this website to make it less cluttered, more user friendly, and maybe add a few features, I think it would blow KS away...and people WOULD come here more and sell here more...someone ask the website owner if they would like to talk about some help with this...I would love to get involved if they would be so inclined...I very well might be overstepping my bounds here, but Im just throwing it out there and Im very serious...


Paul Harb

I don't understand how you could react to John's questions about the ads and the emails thus:

To Jeff [sic] who wants to see these emails and original ad, Im sorry I will not be able to post those here. Im not sure why you want these so bad unless you just like to get involved in drama. I suppose you are trying to imply that you dont believe that this happened like I said? Sorry that is the case however I dont feel i really have to prove myself. I know what happened. Many "Big Breeders" who have befriended me know what happened. Ask around and Im sure youll hear the story from people who actually know and are not in KS's pocket and therefore dont have a vested interest in keeping the "elite club" alive over there.

Im sure there will be those that are going to attack me and say "see he wouldnt post the emails or ad here on Fauna"...oh well...again I could care less...I know where Im coming from and thats all I care about...not others opinions. I hope you can understand my point of view and if not....oh well, dont care.

I'll be the first to observe that you talk out of both sides of your mouth. That type of question is about the first that gets asked here on the BOI, as it well should be. No one gets a free ride, not even the great Paul Harb who evidently knows all the "Big Breeders".

You make a huge stink about how they "stole" your money and when someone asks for more than your word you accuse them of wanting to get off on drama or of doubting you (why should he believe you?). I know John Schmitt for several years. I know you from this thread. There are always three sides of an issue, yours, his, and the truth. If John made an accusation like you did I'd ask to see the source so I could decide for myself where the truth lies. I suspect he wants to make his own judgment as well. That's what thinking people do. I'm sorry that you cannot or chose not to understand that.

You say you know where you're coming from and that's all that counts.

Put Paul Harb down on the list of "do not buy from or sell to" since all he cares about is how he perceives himself and not anyone else's opinion. Sounds like a guy who wouldn't handle a transaction gone bad all that well since he is evidently incapable of seeing another's viewpoint. JMHO of course.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

This has created quite the thread which I hadnt anticipated.

I appreciate all of the private emails that I have gotten on the subject from all of you that were to intimidated to speak out in public about KS for fear of getting banned yourself. I will refrain from posting the original ad and any emails that were sent back and forth between myself and KS or Jeff Barringer. It really would accomplish nothing and really I dont have time in my life for drama in this little industry, Im much to busy in my life with other things that mean much more to me.

I have dealt with this through my credit card company and will not be talking about KS again as I made a personal decision based on my on principles that even if FOR NOW KS has the traffic, I really dont care about selling one snake ever again, Ill survive. Also there ARE other sites out there that I think have a great chance of creating the next generation of reptile community websites that KS cant touch. Nobody stays on top forever and from someone who works with some of the best web community programmers in this country, KS is a very old code, very cluttered and very set in their ways...and Im thankful for that as I see the future and they are not it.

To Jeff who wants to see these emails and original ad, Im sorry I will not be able to post those here. Im not sure why you want these so bad unless you just like to get involved in drama. I suppose you are trying to imply that you dont believe that this happened like I said? Sorry that is the case however I dont feel i really have to prove myself. I know what happened. Many "Big Breeders" who have befriended me know what happened. Ask around and Im sure youll hear the story from people who actually know and are not in KS's pocket and therefore dont have a vested interest in keeping the "elite club" alive over there.

Im sure there will be those that are going to attack me and say "see he wouldnt post the emails or ad here on Fauna"...oh well...again I could care less...I know where Im coming from and thats all I care about...not others opinions. I hope you can understand my point of view and if not....oh well, dont care.

everybody have a great holiday weekend and I pray for the best in New Orleans...

Paul Harb

The reason I asked to see the original ad and emails Paul is because they are 100% germane to the reaction you received from them. Odds are good that if you had simply reworded the ad to delete your project / partner's name, there would have been absolutely no further action on Kingsnake's part. Was that a reasonable request on kingsnake's part?....maybe not. But as has been pointed out more than once, it is their website and they make the rules there.

The Emails are important for the following reason. Kingsnake has always maintained the following rule in their TOS as paramount.

Being Abusive/Belligerent/Argumentative to Staff - All of the services we provide, whether in classifieds or forums, we provide as a service, and grant you the privilege to use them. If you violate that privilege, either knowingly or unknowingly, we may contact you and ask you to stop. If you persist or become abusive, belligerent, or argumentative with an employee, we have the right and the ability to revoke your classified account and other site privileges and cancel your services.

Our employees are doing their jobs and being abused is not part of the job. No customer or business pays us enough money to be abused, and we have no time to deal with abusive individuals or companies. There are now a number of people who have lost their access by being abusive. If you receive a warning about an ad or a message board post, or find your ads or posts missing, think twice before you hit the send key.

If your Emails in response were at all abusive they will jerk your account faster than you can blink. A fair number of those who have had their accounts pulled in the past have turned out to fall into that category. A fair number have not. Your reluctance to post the requested documents lends me to believe that you fall into the first category. In all honesty, how else can it be perceived?

There are a number of things that are policy at Kingsnake that I think are over the top. But if I choose to use their site, those are the rules I have to play within. I have had ads pulled on occasion myself. Sometimes i have agreed with the reason, sometimes not. There are TOS issues with all sites I frequent that I do not agree with. Again, your option is to play in their sandbox or hit the door.

As you said, you have made your decision. It would just be interesting to see how much of this issue was your own doing

 

[Wrongbeach]

JIM O BOY

Jim O,

I appreciate you thinking Im great... my mom feels the same way, so thks for noticing.

The reason i do not want to bother posting emails and such here are for the same reasons I chuckle at posts like yours. Its silly and pointless and will just keep this thread going and going with people like you that love getting involved with this kind of stuff. Maybe you have to much time on your hands I dont know.. And again...I dont care. I have nothing to prove and was just really venting my frustration and Fauna was nice enough to let me do that.

You really will crush me if you dont buy a snake from me since I really dont sell many and have no plans on selling that many in the future. So your attempt to effect me falls flat on the floor. Wanna buy a Sharp Snow male for $9000, no I didnt think so.

However since John was at least adult and professional in his most recent post i will show him privately the ad if he is really that interested and feels that I need to prove myself. I am curious what will change if I so called "prove these accusations, however maybe he can come on here and argue my point with people like you that like to fancy themselves detectives.

I did offer to get financially involved with Fauna, and I have talked to Rich about this and maybe it will work and very possibly will not...but that is between him and I and is none of your business no matter how important you think you are here.

I dont know all the "Big Breeders" I just know that SOME I have made friends with which are much smarter than I and know to stay out of this kind of schoolyard infighting...Im actually quite over it at this point and in retrospect i probably shouldnt have even vented here.... Again I was very heated at the time of my post and needed to get it off my chest.

So in closing Jimmy...zzzzzzzzz