Experience with KINGSNAKE Website

[Wrongbeach]

HERE IS THE AD AND KS NOTICE OF PULLING IT

OK, it was easier to find then I thought so screw it here it is.....this was the ad pulled after me changing it the first time due to not knowing Doug had been banned from the site and using his name TO GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR THE BREEDING which seemed like the right thing to do.



Dear Sir or Madam

Your recent classified ad entitled "*SHARP SNOW MALE* EXTREMELY RARE GENETIC POWERHOUSE" has been removed due to a violation of our Terms of Service.

Excerpt from the TOS:

You may NOT post advertisments for other businesses or individuals, regardless of whether they are friends, relatives or family members.

A classified account is a service contract established in the name of a SINGLE ENTITY. If more than one person is found to be using a single account without prior permission, or that advertisements for more than one (1) individual or business are being posted using a single account, that account will be IMMEDIATELY TERMINATED with no notice or warning. If a person OTHER than the one listed in the registration form is found using the account the account will be terminated. Anyone found violating this rule is committing Theft of Service and may be prosecuted as such.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. Please do not take this note personally, we are only trying to enforce our rules equally. There is no need to respond to this email, it is supplied to you as a courtesy. However, if you do reply, please include this email in it's entirety in your reply for tracking purposes and add the username your account is registered under.

Classifieds Coordinator
[email protected]

Below is a copy of the advertisement for your reference.

Here is the most beautiful Sharp Snow boa, he was produced and is brothers with the OrangeTail Sharp Snowglow that we produced this year. Nobody to my knowledge has sold one of these to date, and maybe Im crazy to be selling a male....I was lucky and got 2 males and will be keeping one and selling this one.

Be one of just a few people to own one of these genetic powerhouses!!!!

$10,000 OBO

no trades please....thks.

Paul Harb

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Paul

You stated earlier that the reason the ad was removed was due to the fact that Doug Matuszak was banned and you mentioned his name. I don't see it mentioned in the ad.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Sorry, missed the first line. Dou you also have the original ad and the Emails you sent afterwards?

 

[Wrongbeach]

BINGO!!!!!!!!

Now you get it??? Thats my point....what I cant send you which I cant find was that I had posted this snake on the forums after they were born...giving Doug credit for the breeding...the right thing to do....having NO IDEA that he had been banned...they pulled...fine....they explained after many emails of me asking why...that he had been banned...ok fine....

when I posted the snake for sale, they assumed it was Doug's animal and pulled my ad with this email sent to me....her was my response email and the email that got my account closed....

THIS IS MY ANIMAL!!! WHY ARE YOU GUYS PULLING ADS THAT ARE MY ANIMALS????!!!!!! You guys are a pet website, Ive never seen ANY website abuse its use of power the way you choose to on a continual basis. If you guys have a personal problem with Doug Matuszak who I barely know and who i did a breeding with, you have NO RIGHT to take it out on me. I am a fairly new member and you are on a constant basis attacking me and my account for the most unclear reasons.... ARE YOU SAYING I CANNOT SELL MY ANIMALS HERE BECAUSE I PRODUCED THEM WITH ONE OF DOUGS ANIMALS???? REALLY???!!! Im not sure that even legal.....If that is the case just say so, give me my money back and close my account. These are MY animals I am selling and I paid you guys $258 for the account, where do you get off making a judgment call as to who owns an animal???!!!! ....


Paul Harb

 

[Wrongbeach]

Email after my account was closed....

Yes in the last email I asked for my account to be closed, IF THIS IS HOW THEY DO BUSINESS....they closed the account with no email to me, I found out trying to get on...and I never heard another peep, they just took my money which I had just spent 2 weeks prior on the account....that is theft IMHO and I think any other levelheaded persons.

here is my email to them after my account was closed....note the deleted names to protect people that have nothing to do with this....


I am at a total loss here, you have now closed my account, with NO email, NO response to my emails questioning why you would take down an ad that was my animal to sell, so now you have closed my account???!!!! Are you now sending my money back that I just gave you guys? This is the most unprofessional action I have ever seen any company take without any kind of reaching out to the PAYING costumer...you are WRONG to think that ANY animal I sell here is not MINE.....I am a film maker who works for (deleted) who doesnt have TIME to be selling SOMEONE ELSES animals....so now you have taken a personal problem with someone that I know nothing about and you are attacking me personally and my account for NO GOOD REASON....(deleted) just told me the other day why Doug is banned from your site, I had NO idea, its none of my business and I dont care.....why am I paying for his mistakes??????!!!!!!!!!! If you would like to call (deleted) and ask them who owns these animals please do so and STOP attacking me!!!!!!!

You give me no choice but to take legal action if I do not rectify the situation today....you are now costing me money.....

Sincerely,

Paul Harb

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Paul

No offense meant here but you just illustrated the reason you no longer have an account there. YOU ASKED THEM TO CLOSE IT!. The remainder of that Email would have been abusive enough to have you account pulled without the request but you pretty much capped it off by telling them TO CLOSE YOUR ACCOUNT!.

I hate to say it but your handling of the situation caused this situation plain and simple. As I strongly suspected from the first post, you have no one to blame here but yourself. Head you handled this differently, you would probably still have your account and be posting that particular animal

 

[Wraith]

Am I to understand that you are not allowed to watermark your own photos of your own snakes with your own company name at KS?

From their TOS:


It is common practice for businesses or individuals to place a logo or 'watermark' of some sort on their photos as a form of copyright protection. However, photos placed within the main body of a forum/message board post containing non-discreet logos and/or watermarks may be construed as advertising and removed. A pattern of regularly posting messages containing such images may be taken into consideration when evaluating if it is advertising/promotion or not.

 

[Wrongbeach]

I agree totally...

I agree, and know I got my account pulled due to my email...Im ok with that, what Im not ok with is them STEALING my money under false pretense.. I dont need the money, we are talking about $258...its the principal...I was speaking up for the kid that saved up that money for months and got the same kind of treatment but sucked it up due to feeling they had no choice...can you imagine if a "real" company treated a customer like that? They wouldnt, they would say sorry for the misunderstanding... we will reinstate your account right away...when you call the phone company or you internet provider to complain, is it impossible to talk to a live human being and then they just shut off your service because you complained???
Of course not...thats how business works in the real world...obviously not in the snake breeding industry.

No doubt, I made a decision to give up on KS and sent that email...in fact, it was getting worked out through another breeder who contacted Jeff to clear up the misunderstanding...and I was to get my account reinstated...but I am a passionate person and dont take crap from anyone let alone some guy that runs a reptile classifieds...I decided that I dont need KS and dont want to do business with a company that works like that, so I voiced my discontent, and Im ok with that and feel good about it especially after getting tons of private responses with people voicing the same frustration with KS.

The point of my OG post was A. to vent my frustration, and B. to spread the word that these guys are wrong and IMHO bad for this industry with no checks and balances...competition forces companies to treat customers with respect...again I take full responsibility for losing my account at this point, in fact I need to go read my OG post to see if I suggested otherwise, which was not intended...and now that its all up there you all that have the time can debate tit for tat....

Paul Harb

 

[Wraith]

meant to also add - a lot of people on that site DO tend to use very blatant logos as their watermarks as a way to push their business name out in front of people rather than them just wanting to share a photo. When the watermark/logo IS the focus of the photo then I can certainly see how KS could see it as advertising.

 

[Wrongbeach]

Just Read my OG Post and....

I think it clearly states that my frustration was with them stealing my money and the way they treat paying customers......not wondering WHY they closed my account, thats not clear in the OG post???....John???

 

[Wrongbeach]

i will say it sounds a bit pompous

i will say the whole google my name thing sounds really retarded and Im sorry for that, but i was pissed and trying the make the point that I dont need to sell someone elses animals....but otherwise Im not sure what was wrong with the post....

Paul

 

[dagionsb]

I would contact the AG of the state (Texas?) that kingsnake is based in .

From my experience, the consumer affairs division of most states takes complaints seriously about not delivering a service that has been paid for.

Any company hates to hear from their state AG, and they can't just blow it off either. They have to answer.

Someone suggested to call your credit card co. and dispute the charges. If you haven't done this yet, do it now.

I would still file w/consumer affairs anyway.

You may have violated their TOS and they can ban you, but they do not have the right to take payment and cut you loose two weeks later without refunding a prorated amount. Their TOS doesn't supercede the law.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

No Paul, it isn't clear. Your first post makes it sound like you have no idea why they closed your account. As to stealing your money, this is copied directly from their TOS

Any violations of the terms listed above that cause your account to be terminated will cause any and all registration or advertising fees paid to be forfeit to OnlineHobbyist.com, Inc.

Not really a lot more to say here Paul.

 

[Serafim]

I would contact the AG of the state (Texas?) that kingsnake is based in .

From my experience, the consumer affairs division of most states takes complaints seriously about not delivering a service that has been paid for.

Any company hates to hear from their state AG, and they can't just blow it off either. They have to answer.

Someone suggested to call your credit card co. and dispute the charges. If you haven't done this yet, do it now.

I would still file w/consumer affairs anyway.

You may have violated their TOS and they can ban you, but they do not have the right to take payment and cut you loose two weeks later without refunding a prorated amount. Their TOS doesn't supercede the law.

I think that when you join you agree to the terms of service. People are required to read what they agree to. I think the point of filing a consumer complaint would be a waste of time. JMHO

 

[NorthernRegius.com]

Am I to understand that you are not allowed to watermark your own photos of your own snakes with your own company name at KS?

As pointed out, it's up to KS if your logo/watermark looks like you're advertising. In their defense mine is bright, I've since considered reducing the size & making it more transparent... don't need to for other places but okie-dokie, I still want to brag about what I'm producing even if I don't list ads there.

 

[Wraith]

You may have violated their TOS and they can ban you, but they do not have the right to take payment and cut you loose two weeks later without refunding a prorated amount. Their TOS doesn't supercede the law.

a legally binding contract is just that.. a legally binding contract. He broke the TOS - which is a legal contract he signed - and as a result forfeited his funds. It would be a nice gesture for KS to refund the balance on his account, but in the end they don't have. He did not honor his end of the contract with KS and forfeited his balance.

By Registering for a Pethobbyist.com Classified Account
You are agreeing that you have Read and will Abide by this Terms of Service

Any violations of the terms listed above that cause your account to be terminated will cause any and all registration or advertising fees paid to be forfeit to OnlineHobbyist.com, Inc.

Registration and use of our online communities is considered a contract between the registrant and OnlineHobbyist.com, Inc. under the laws of the State of Texas, and United States federal law. This contract is not transferable nor may it be reassigned to any individual or business without the prior written consent of OnlineHobbyist.com, Inc.

By agreeing to the classified terms of service contract terms listed above and registering for a classified account, you are agreeing that any and all legal conflicts with OnlineHobbyist.com, Inc. will be resolved in the Texas court system.

 

[Jim O]

Jim O,

I appreciate you thinking Im great... my mom feels the same way, so thks for noticing.

The reason i do not want to bother posting emails and such here are for the same reasons I chuckle at posts like yours. Its silly and pointless and will just keep this thread going and going with people like you that love getting involved with this kind of stuff. Maybe you have to much time on your hands I dont know.. And again...I dont care. I have nothing to prove and was just really venting my frustration and Fauna was nice enough to let me do that.

You really will crush me if you dont buy a snake from me since I really dont sell many and have no plans on selling that many in the future. So your attempt to effect me falls flat on the floor. Wanna buy a Sharp Snow male for $9000, no I didnt think so.

However since John was at least adult and professional in his most recent post i will show him privately the ad if he is really that interested and feels that I need to prove myself. I am curious what will change if I so called "prove these accusations, however maybe he can come on here and argue my point with people like you that like to fancy themselves detectives.

I did offer to get financially involved with Fauna, and I have talked to Rich about this and maybe it will work and very possibly will not...but that is between him and I and is none of your business no matter how important you think you are here.

I dont know all the "Big Breeders" I just know that SOME I have made friends with which are much smarter than I and know to stay out of this kind of schoolyard infighting...Im actually quite over it at this point and in retrospect i probably shouldnt have even vented here.... Again I was very heated at the time of my post and needed to get it off my chest.

So in closing Jimmy...zzzzzzzzz

I'm not going to get into an "I can piss further than you can" battle with you. Suffice it to say that my balance sheet is strong enough that if I wanted a $9K snake I could have it any day of the week. It wouldn't come from you, ever.

Having said that, your further posts have proven my points. You sent them an abusive email and in accordance with their TOS, the very same TOS to which you agreed, they closed your account and kept your money. End of discussion. That's why John asked, and that's evidently why you didn't want to answer.

 

[Wrongbeach]

Sigh.....

I didnt violate the TOS to begin with, they made a mistake, i think anyone with half a brain can see that from my ad...therefore if I didnt violate the TOS with the ad, I DID NOT forfeit my money by sending them a private email confronting them and asking for my money back and to close my account. You would be a horrible lawyer....

Your right John, there is nothing further to say about this here...you won the tit for tat out of shear attrition...congrats

Ill let you take over this post now...I have better things to do...I said my peace...feel free to tear me apart on here...

Paul Harb

 

[dagionsb]

Your humble opinion doesn't count when it comes to legalities.

Heres why.

In my state of NJ, anyone can cancel a contract before the end of the third business day. That's a fact.

Heres a hypothetical situation.

If some company decides to include in their terms something along the lines of "we get to keep your money if we decide you vioated our terms by trying to cancel within the first three days", it doesn't supercede the law of the state.

If any company could make up any terms they pleased, everyone would be ripped off all the time.

Hey, could be that other states let companys operate any way they please. Cancel contracts and keep your money for what ever reason they conjure up. But, I doubt it.

Dispute the charge and file the complaint.

When people think "it's a waste of time" to correct a problem and just do nothing, than I know one thing for sure, nothing will get done.

 

[Wraith]

I didnt violate the TOS to begin with, they made a mistake, i think anyone with half a brain can see that from my ad...therefore if I didnt violate the TOS with the ad, I DID NOT forfeit my money by sending them a private email confronting them and asking for my money back and to close my account. You would be a horrible lawyer....

You have proven to be a bit of a belligerent hot head here on the BOI in this thread. I'm willing to bet that instead of calmly working out a minor/correctable problem with KS (hell maybe even an honest mistake on their part) you mouthed off to one of their staff instead. Would I be in the ball park that maybe you even threw one of the "L" words at them (i.e. lawyer / lawsuit) since you were quick enough to do it here in the very first post of this thread and so they probably decided to wash their hands of you which is their right to do as is stated in their TOS????