Bad Guy Extreme Geckos - Anthony Adams

[Johanna]

I would not recommend purchasing any geckos from Anthony Adams at Extreme Geckos.
[email protected]
Cell Phone: (205) 317-1875
Mailing Address:
Anthony Adams
270 Doug Baker BLVD., suite 700-314
Birmingham, AL 35242

I had a terrible shipping experience with him and since I receive my geckos he has not responded to my emails. I will post the email conversation, of which I got little to no conversation and little to no information about the geckos either. I was concerned about the temperatures but he decided to send them. I trusted that he knew how to cold weather ship. I was wrong.
Here is how the emails went (I took out my last name and email address):

"On Nov 24, 2012, at 9:16 PM, Johanna wrote:

> I'm interested in female 2311. How old is she?
> Thanks
>
From: Extreme Geckos <[email protected]>
To: Johanna
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: Blood Hypo

1 year. Please give zip for shipping quote...

Anthony

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 26, 2012, at 12:20 AM, Johanna wrote:

> My zip code is 58102.
> I'm interested in purchasing both 2311 and 1511.
> Here is my weather forecast: 58102 Weather Forecast and Conditions - weather.com
> Let me know what if you think we can work this out.
> Thanks, Johanna
>

From: Anthony Adams <[email protected]>
To: Johanna
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: Blood Hypo

2311 is spoken for and shipping quote is 70.43

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 26, 2012, at 12:54 PM, Johanna wrote:

> How about 8911 and 1511.
> Thanks
>

From: Anthony Adams <[email protected]>
To: Johanna
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: Blood Hypo

Both available....

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 26, 2012, at 5:58 PM, Johanna wrote:

> Great. I would like to purchase those two. I can let you know how my weather looks for shipping and you can ship when you feel comfortable with the temps. I can pay whenever you give me a total and I can receive any day of the week.
> Thanks!
>
From: Anthony Adams <[email protected]>
To: Johanna
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: Blood Hypo

220.43 to my Paypal address

[email protected]

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 28, 2012, at 2:29 PM, Johanna wrote:

> Here is my weather forcast:
> 58102 Weather Forecast and Conditions - weather.com
> Looks like Thursday for Friday arrival would be the warmest in the near future. I was hoping that the warm front this weekend would extend one more day into monday night. We can wait if you want. It is possible to get another warm period here, but it seems to only get colder as the winter goes on. There is typically no hope for warm weather January and February.
> Let me know.
> Thanks, Johanna
>

From: Anthony Adams <[email protected]>
To: Johanna
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Blood Hypo

Give me your full shipping address and a contact number for shipping and we will plan on shipping tomorrow.

Anthony

Sent from my iPhone


I left out the email with my address

Anthony Adams <[email protected]> wrote:
Temps are cold in your area so your going to have to get the package when it delivers. It can't sit outside....are you going to be there??

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 29, 2012, at 3:04 PM, Johanna wrote:

> Yes, i can be home when it arrives. I work close to home.



Today I received the geckos ~15 min after they arrived in my porch and found out that this person has no clue how to ship cold weather. The packaging was pathetic. The box was way too big, the styrofoam was not sealed anywhere, there were holes through the box and styrofoam (to the outside), the one tiny heat pad was outside the styrofoam right next to a hole to the outside, and the geckos were laying on top of some papertowels being tossed around in freezing cold air. They were frozen to the touch when I received them. I've had better insulation and more heat packs in the summer. I'm mad at myself for making them suffer this way. The temperature this morning was about 30degrees F.
I hesitated on giving a negative comment until I heard back from Anthony Adams, but there is nothing he can say that can justify what happened. I have asked for my shipping costs to be refunded. I think that is the least he can do.

Here is what it looked like when I opened the box. Obviously not much keeping the geckos secure or insulated. They were just tossed around in there:

Here is what the styrofoam on the side by the heat pack looks like. There is a hole in the center that goes all the way through to the outside and huge air gaps in the styrofoam in the corner:

Here is a hole right next to the heat pack to the outside. Bad idea when its cold. There is one on the other side too. Both go through the styrofoam as well:

Here is how sad Gecko #2 looks. His body is almost frozen to the touch in this picture. This was about 20 min before I took his temperature. For a year old gecko he is tiny. He also has a huge lump on his nose, looks almost broken, that I was not told about:

Here is the body temp after 45 min in their enclosures. Gecko #1:

Sorry about the bad picture. I needed to get back to work and was so sad for him I was shaking. Gecko #2 at 60degrees:

Here is a picture of a defect in the male which I was not told about:

I have never complained about a reptile order. I have only had good dealings with people. I think Anthony needs to learn how to ship reptiles before agreeing to ship them. I hope Anthony Adams does the right thing in this situation. I will post again if I hear back from him. I have sent him 3 emails so far and not received a response even though he receives them to his cell phone. Luckily the geckos are doing well so far. I will update if anything changes to this situation.

 

[markpulawski]

I agree that anyone that uses stryro panels, especially ones that thin should not be shipping warm temp animals to a cold temp climate. Full styro coolers are available at any aquarium supply center and to not use them in cold weather is huge mistake when shipping reptiles and amphibians. To not secure tham in the box with some type of packing material is also asking for trouble....I would say when shipping animals this guy did not have a clue how to do it.

 

[Pasodama]

As long as the geckos arrived, and arrived alive, I think you may be out of luck as far as any type of refund for shipping.
Also, it is not too concerning, to me, about having a small hole, or two, that goes through the box & insulation (if where the heat pack is located). Reason being is that heat packs tend to function better when this is done.
However, with that said, the packing job was horrible.<tsk> Certainly not enough material for cushioning &/or to keep the delis/Leos from bouncing around. Also, not a proper seal, to the insulation (not to mention that 1/4 inch insulation is too thin anyway), and the heat pack should have been inside the insulated area (not on the outside).
The seller really does need to improve their packing/shipping.

Then, there is the bump, on the nose, that was not disclosed to you. Another mistake from the seller.
I take it that you did not see the bump in a photo?
Did you tell the seller specifically about the bump on the Leo's nose? If so, give the seller a reasonable amount of time time to respond.
Since it was not disclosed, I believe you are due a partial refund or something else that is satisfactory to rectify their error.
I don't know exactly what the bump is. Could be a "growth", or something that has healed and left a bump (that may, or may not, go away over time), or the start of an abscess, or something else. If it were me, I'd take the Leo, to a vet, to have it looked at and properly diagnosed.

 

[Kristi23]

The bump is something that should have been mentioned before you even paid. I'm hoping that it's nothing serious or that it happened during shipping.

The missing packing material is terrible. Those geckos were probably tossed around a lot. That's never acceptable.

The air holes are fine and I use them in all my shipments. They did arrive cold, but cold is better than too hot. They will become active again once they warm up.

I really hope that this person starts to care more about the animals safety and ships properly. If they used shipyourreptiles, you can contact them and let them know about this post, too. They require you to use proper shipping techniques.

 

[Johanna]

I received an email from him today.

From: Anthony Adams <[email protected]>
To: Johanna Emerson
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2012 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: Blood Hypo
Johanna,
Just got back into town I've been away on business. Well where do I start...
1) I'm sorry you weren't happy with the process. I've shipped for 5 yrs and you are only the second person to complain.
2) as far as refunds. There are no refunds on wholesale orders especially when you were not there to sign for the package. I had emailed you to make sure of that. Notes on shipping said the package was left on the porch. It's to cold for that for any length of time.
3) keep in mind I sold you 400.00 and 500.00 dollar geckos for 75.00 which is wholesale pricing which does not happen!!!! I'm just trying to move what I have left. As far as shipping cost. Let me clue you into a trade secret, geckos are priced higher than what you paid and dealers absorb a lot of the cost. By me selling then wholesale I'm giving a direct fedx quote that you could get yourself if you want to see.
4) I hope you enjoy your geckos because they are top of the line genetics, but as for future business I think it's best if we do not work together. I think you would be happier buying from somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

Not sure what kind of business he was on that a cell phone doesn't work, but I'll forgive that. I will say that I was never informed of this "wholesale" pricing. I did realize that they were cheaper than they normally are. I know that a super snow eclipse goes for about $200 healthy without defect. With defect I would say about $100-125 (not $400-500). A Blood hypo is probably worth the $400-500 range he is talking about. I will give him that. I'm not too familiar on how the pricing vs quality goes on those ones though. I was not given any information on the lineage of this animal. Point #4 was good because I was thinking about doing more business with him. Bummer

 

[ronritzer]

NOt being there to sign for the package is no good period.

 

[markpulawski]

I would agree with the above, if it were 75 outside leaving a package outside for a couple of hours, no problem but when it is freezing they should be held for pick up or someone should be waiting for them.

 

[allreptiles1966]

Terrible packaging man !! No excuse ! Its hard to believe with packaging like that that you only have 2 complaints.

The holes need to be there for air to interact with the chemicals in the heat packs.

I hope they come around Johanna.Good luck.

 

[aleria]

I want to add something here. Not intended to side with either party.

I see no indication that the buyer was not there to accept package. The seller states this because he sees "left on porch" on the shipping site (FedEx ?)

I recently purchased a dragon from diamond-den and it was shipped by FedEx. The driver never made it to my door because I met the Truck at the curb. It was handed to me by the driver who was the only person on the truck. There was no request to sign for the pkg. when I refreshed the fedex tracking page I was surprise to see that it was marked as "left on porch". I do mean to call FedEx about this. If there had been a problem with the dragon this could have caused an issue with my guarantee. As it is probably doing here.

Is anyone else seeing this happen with fedex?

Has anyone else seen this with FedEx?

I too have had the same issue with fedex. I guess for them it is easier to just always mark the same option rather than actually take the time to enter what really took place (given to cust, left at door, signed, unsigned, etc). They just don't really seem to care about accuracy when it comes to their deliveries in the least. I've even had them leave a package that required signature at my door without knocking and marked it as signed for(obviously forged a signature). But since I had tracking notification I was immediately able to go grab the box and actually watch the fedex truck pull away.

 

[Untaimed]

Those poor geckos, he should be ashamed of sending them in such cold weather packaged that way. I hope they recovery quickly for you! I also agree that the bump/lump on his nose should have been disclosed before purchase & since I saw no mention of 'wholesale' pricing in his responses to your inquiry, he shouldn't use that as an excuse to not guarantee or back up his geckos. Sad, really sad.
I have an issue with Fed Ex not even knocking on the door, they drop the package at my door & book it, thankfully with all the windows at the front of my house, I can see them pull up, but by the time I get to the door they are usually pulling away. I have also met them at the door & had them mark it as 'left on porch', so I don't believe that is a valid excuse for him not offering a guarantee either. If he had packaged them properly a couple of minutes on the porch wouldn't have dropped their temps so significantly. With all of the holes, ill fitting & too thin insulation, there was no way for the heat pack to offer any temp control at all. The seller should man up & make this right.

 

[skirtinthedirt]

"left on porch" happens a lot this time of year. We need to wait for the OP to chime in as to the circumstances surrounding delivery.

To even mention that in the course of trying to justify such horrendous packaging is disgusting. What if they had died? It sounds like the OP wouldn't be getting any kind of refund because of the "left on porch" situation, which is ridiculous when they arrived packaged that way.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

heat pack on the outside of the styro? what good does that do?
hopefully the seller will be more careful next time, at least adding more cushion, although doesn't sound like they think anything was done wrong based on the email.

 

[Johanna]

The package was left on my front porch at 9:50 and I was home at 10:05 to receive it. I should have been home, but I did not have enough notice to get the morning off work. I was not told by the seller that there was a guarantee issue for not being home to sign. He did not ask for me to sign either. The emails I posted were my only contact with him. His website does not have that information on it.
I also have the issue with delivery guys just leaving packages on my porch without knocking. I usually have to check the door constantly to see if they left something. I guess the porch is good enough.
If he was so worried about me signing for the package, don't you think there should have been some indication on the label for the fed ex guy to get a signature if I was home? That wasn't even an option.
Good news is that the male is very interested in food and has been eating mealworms. The female is still scared.

 

[skirtinthedirt]

For future reference, it is pretty much standard that you are expected to be there to sign for the package and not doing so voids any type of guarantee in terms of shipping/arrival.

Also for future reference, it's ill advised for you to approve shipping if you know you won't be there to receive the package for the sake of the animals. What if something happened and you were delayed getting home? Based on the weather info I could gather, Fargo is cold this time of year.

This does not excuse the packaging job but from now on I would recommend delaying shipping on purchases until you know you can be home. This will protect you and your seller and most importantly the animals.

 

[outfished]

When you say your going to be home to receive package, You need to be home. This is the worst thing any buyer can do.

 

[chazzz]

From what I am reading it seems there are some that don't understand that requiring a signature is an option the sender must state when purchasing the shipping label. If this is not noted the FedEx delivery will be left on the porch or in some cases like me just inside my gate.

This is copy and pasted from FedEx's website about requiring a signature.

FedEx will obtain a signature from someone at the delivery address. If no one is at the address, FedEx will reattempt delivery. Direct Signature Required overrides any recipient release that may be on file for deliveries to nonresidential addresses.

Also from the FedEx website about signatures-
FedEx First Overnight® and FedEx International First® (U.S. Inbound). We may provide three delivery attempts. For shipments that cannot be delivered on the first attempt by the FedEx First Overnight or FedEx International First commitment time, we may reattempt delivery by the FedEx Priority Overnight® or FedEx International Priority® commitment time on the same day as the first attempted delivery. If necessary, a second reattempt may occur by the FedEx Priority Overnight or FedEx International Priority commitment time the following business day.

Anyway if the seller/shipper requires the buyer to sign for the package it's on the seller to choose that option when purchasing the label. So it doesn't make sense for the seller to state that you were not there to sign when that wasn't part of the shipping details. They will not or at least they're not supposed to leave a package if a signature is required. As someone else has stated that their package was left on the porch without even knocking when a signature was required. I think we all need to be prepared for mistakes that could be made by shippers, to them it's just another package and most likely have no idea there's a live animal in the box.

Because i have a sign on my gate that says "Beware of Dog" I have had shippers toss my packages over the fence even though I make a note that the dog will be inside and to drop off on the porch. Now I always wait on my porch having my coffee when I am expecting a live animal.

A FedEx story of my own, and sorry if this is getting off topic but I was expecting a shipment of an Amazon Tree Boa about a year ago. I kept refreshing the tracking page as well as sitting in front of the window that looks out at my driveway. I refreshed the page and it stated package delivered left at front door. I was amazed that I somehow missed seeing the FedEx guy or even hear both gates open and close twice. I went outside and no package at the front door, no problem I figured he went to the back door and dropped it off as they do sometimes because of the extra gate to enter the front yard to get to the front door. Well no package at the back door now my heart is starting to race. I start looking in the bushes looking in places that would have been almost impossible for the package to be but I was frantic. Then I thought it must have been delivered to the wrong address. But since the tracking had the correct address I figured it had to be one of my neighbors and checked with the places on both sides of me with no luck. I called FedEx and explained the situation and that there was a live animal in the package and it was crucial to locate the package ASAP! The employee on the phone was very helpful and contacted the driver then called me back. It turns out the driver was down the street and hadn't even made it to my house yet, in fact it was about 20 minutes after the tracking said delivered that he made it to my house. I guess he got in trouble because he was not happy when I met him at my drive way. He handed me the package and all he said was, "I was only right down the street" in a very curt way without looking at me in the eye and jumped back in his truck and sped off. I was dumbfounded by his reaction, I thought I would at least get a, Sorry about that, but got the complete opposite. Right when I got inside the nice lady from FedEx that I was on the phone with called back again to make sure everything was okay and apologized for any inconvenience which I fully appreciated and it made up for the drivers mistake and bad attitude.

Basically my reason for telling that story is you really need to stay on top of your deliveries when expecting a live animal, mistakes can happen people make them all the time and FedEx drivers are not exempt.

With regards to the package the OP received is purely unacceptable for shipping live animals. As April stated the heat pack on the outside of the styro is absolutely ridiculous and does nothing to heat the animals inside the box. I can't see how anyone would think that was a good idea, why even add a heat pack if that's where you're going to put it? Even after making such a bad decision on the heat pack placement, then not seeing his error after it was brought to his attention is beyond me!
This is what the seller says about his shipping, are you kidding me!

1) I'm sorry you weren't happy with the process. I've shipped for 5 yrs and you are only the second person to complain.

Then you have the packing material or lack there of, I mean that package just has wrong written all over it! Luckily it didn't turn out worse than it did because it could have very easily.

I hope your geckos do well and that the horrible shipping practices by the seller haven't doomed the poor lizards!

Also it's not a bad idea to have your packages shipped to the nearest Fedex store for pickup especially when the weather is bad and you're not sure if you will be there when the package arrives. Like in your case, you had to drive home luckily you made it there a few minutes after it was dropped off, but like someone else stated what if you were held up for some reason, traffic, or fender bender, or whatever.

 

[chazzz]

Come to think of it, I have not had to sign for the last 2-3 packages I have gotten containing snakes. They are always handed to me by the Fedex guy (he knows who I am now and what I usually get from fedex), but I have not had to sign.

Weird.

It's actually not weird at all. Having to sign for deliveries is an additional service that costs extra. So unless you specifically request for signature required and the shipper actually pays for the service you don't have to sign for anything.

On ship your reptiles website when you book a shipment at the bottom of the page after you've entered everything else, the last part is Additional services. This is where the check box is for delivery conformation and a signature is required but is an added fee.

Copy and pasted from SYR shipment booking page-

Additional Services
Do you need additional services?

Send FedEx Email Notifications (free service)

Receive Confirmation of Delivery (Recipient signature required. Cost is $3.50 minus your ShipYourReptiles discount.)

 

[Kodieh]

I want to add something here. Not intended to side with either party.

I see no indication that the buyer was not there to accept package. The seller states this because he sees "left on porch" on the shipping site (FedEx ?)

I recently purchased a dragon from diamond-den and it was shipped by FedEx. The driver never made it to my door because I met the Truck at the curb. It was handed to me by the driver who was the only person on the truck. There was no request to sign for the pkg. when I refreshed the fedex tracking page I was surprise to see that it was marked as "left on porch". I do mean to call FedEx about this. If there had been a problem with the dragon this could have caused an issue with my guarantee. As it is probably doing here.

Is anyone else seeing this happen with fedex?

Has anyone else seen this with FedEx?

Yes, this happened to me. I met the driver half way down my drive, because I heard the truck pull up and it was still marked left on porch.

However, the OP does say implicitly "Today I received the geckos ~15 min after they arrived in my porch". So, they were left on the porch. In 30F weather. For 15 minutes.

@OP: I don't know you, but since your seller shouldn't ever ship in cold weather again you shouldn't buy in temp ranges outside of 70F to 80F. You obviously have no regard for the animal, however they are packed, and should just leave your buying to when heat or cold packs are not needed. (Just using your logic on you, is all.)

 

[Johanna]

What temps were they kept in when they were in the truck, the warehouse, the plane they flew in on? I'm pretty sure none of it was controlled temps. I know for a fact that when they get off the plane they sit outside for way longer than 15 min. I'm pretty sure the 15 min they sat inside my enclosed porch was no more harmful to them than the rest of the journey. Had I been there to sign would have made zero difference.
That is not the issue, I already admitted my fault. I was just pointing out poor shipping methods. Read the thread!

 

[Kodieh]

What temps were they kept in when they were in the truck, the warehouse, the plane they flew in on? I'm pretty sure none of it was controlled temps. I know for a fact that when they get off the plane they sit outside for way longer than 15 min. I'm pretty sure the 15 min they sat inside my enclosed porch was no more harmful to them than the rest of the journey. Had I been there to sign would have made zero difference.
That is not the issue, I already admitted my fault. I was just pointing out poor shipping methods. Read the thread!

I admit I didn't, but me personally I make arrangements to be there. You know for a fact, I assume, that shipments will arrive BY 10:30. Not any time after, unless they were never shipped or there was a major delay, in which case you would be notified. So, why weren't you there in person to get them? I'm currently expecting a shipment tomorrow, and will be no where but on the couch by the front door waiting for the Fedex driver to show up. I am NOT going anywhere till I have received in hand the shipment.

My point is, you KNEW they would be coming and yet you still did not make arrangement for you to cover your end. Regardless of how the seller shipped them, which by all means was poor, you did just the same amount of disservice by not being there.