Bad Guy Extreme Geckos - Anthony Adams

[Fangthane]

@OP: I don't know you, but since your seller shouldn't ever ship in cold weather again you shouldn't buy in temp ranges outside of 70F to 80F. You obviously have no regard for the welfare for the animal, however they are packed, and should just leave your buying to when heat or cold packs are not needed. (Just using your logic on you, is all.)

It's a pretty contortive stretch to try to lay this entirely at the buyer's feet, or to try to make the case the it's anyone other than the seller who has shown a disregard for the welfare of the animals. Had they been left outside for an extended period of time, your statement may have had some validity. At worst, the 15 minute lapse shows nothing more than poor planning on the buyer's part.

Considering the absolutely inept packaging job, I think the seller's choice to hide behind TOS is very telling. I believe that animals that are shipped spend a pretty decent amount of time outside of areas that are strictly temperature-controlled. The chosen packing method didn't appear to give much consideration to that premise. I highly doubt that that final 15 minutes outside of the truck really amounts to anything more than what that already had to endure.

 

[Kodieh]

It's a pretty contortive stretch to try to lay this entirely at the buyer's feet, or to try to make the case the it's anyone other than the seller who has shown a disregard for the welfare of the animals. Had they been left outside for an extended period of time, your statement may have had some validity. At worst, the 15 minute lapse shows nothing more than poor planning on the buyer's part.

Considering the absolutely inept packaging job, I think the seller's choice to hide behind TOS is very telling. I believe that animals that are shipped spend a pretty decent amount of time outside of areas that are strictly temperature-controlled. The chosen packing method didn't appear to give much consideration to that premise. I highly doubt that that final 15 minutes outside of the truck really amounts to anything more than what that already had to endure.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I completely agree the seller didn't cover his end either.

But, it takes two to handshake. The sellers shipping preparation was poor as well as the planning on the buyer. Agreed, the buyer isn't as well "at fault" or "to blame" as the seller, but the fact can't be ignored that the buyer chose a shipping date and was, by some means, unable to be there. I'm speaking solely on the shipping aspect of the BOI. It's just bad practice, and generally voids any TOS that might have been possible. Hence, the reason I feel that aspect (the requesting shipping refund) is a bit excessive. Just to showcase, however, is needed. The seller does not care for his animals as much as he should. I've got 8 month old rescues that look better than the yearling sold in this situation.

The seller is completely at fault for selling defected animals without disclosure, and not to build his defense but that is possibly why the animals were sold "cheap". This, however, was withheld and the seller should, at the very least, apologize for misinformation whether purposeful or accidental.

 

[Fangthane]

It's just bad practice, and generally voids any TOS that might have been possible.

The fact that the buyer wasn't there to sign for it was only one of the rationalizations that the seller used as his shields. However, since the shipping aspect is what you're focusing on, this is my opinion: TOS shouldn't be used as a crutch to protect sellers from their own negligence. Based on the posted correspondence, the seller seems to be someone who's unable to admit to making mistakes, or accepting responsibility for them. When an object analysis of the situation points to a very high likelihood that the buyer's mistake played little to no part in the animals' condition, I think it says a lot about the seller that he'd choose to hide behind his TOS.

Hence, the reason I feel that aspect (the requesting shipping refund) is a bit excessive.

Unless the flaws were clearly stated, and/or it was outlined that the animals were being sold as wholesale animals with no type of guarantee, I think she has a fairly righteous claim to expect some sort of compensation. Although, since the shipper ultimately did their job, asking for a shipping refund may have been the wrong choice. Either way, it's a fairly moot point, considering the fact that the seller clearly thinks he's done nothing wrong, and that he wasn't willing to issue any type of refund.

 

[markpulawski]

As a seller you sometimes have to expect the worst in the shipping process that way if there is a delay or misshipment or sent to the wrong hub etc the animals will be OK because hopefully you have packed them well. This shipper did a horrible job of packaging, if that box had gotten misplaced there is no way those geckos would have survuved an overnight somewhere in the Dakota's.
My packaging costs me about $12 as I put a cooler inside of a cooler with a heat pack inbetween, expensive yes but when there is $400 worth of dart frogs inside of it it is worth investing a little bit of $$ to make sure nothing will happen when shipped..even if 1 day service turns into to 2 or 3. And to not put filler in the box to secure the cups from bouncing around makes me think if this guy only had 2 shipping complaints he must have only made 2 shipments in 5 years.

 

[tommyhil4_6]

I want to add something here. Not intended to side with either party.

I see no indication that the buyer was not there to accept package. The seller states this because he sees "left on porch" on the shipping site (FedEx ?)

I recently purchased a dragon from diamond-den and it was shipped by FedEx. The driver never made it to my door because I met the Truck at the curb. It was handed to me by the driver who was the only person on the truck. There was no request to sign for the pkg. when I refreshed the fedex tracking page I was surprise to see that it was marked as "left on porch". I do mean to call FedEx about this. If there had been a problem with the dragon this could have caused an issue with my guarantee. As it is probably doing here.

Is anyone else seeing this happen with fedex?

Has anyone else seen this with FedEx?

Experienced this personally on Nov. 7th. I met the guy at the truck, through the frost laden grass and took him directly from his hands before he even left the truck. Also marked as "left on porch".

A SIGNATURE must be requested by the sender at an additional cost of 3.50 I believe. IF the op WAS NOT there to accept delivery, they would take the shipment BACK TO THE HUB. Not leave it on the porch.

They probably knocked on her door, dropped the box on the porch and took off. Unless the OP states she WAS NOT available for delivery, there is no issue.

There are times I can't make it to the door within 10 seconds of the knock. Fedex drivers DO NOT wait around for you to answer. They go about their route.

How are they fairing now?

 

[snowgyre]

All details aside, the packaging job of those geckos was deplorable. For someone who has been shipping reptiles for 5 years (from the seller's mouth), he should know better.

The seller has three strikes in my mind:
1. Deplorable packaging.
2. Nondisclosure of a defective animal.
3. Deplorable handling of a valid customer complaint.

I know who I am not going to be buying any reptiles from now.

 

[Pasodama]

<Snip>Considering the absolutely inept packaging job, I think the seller's choice to hide behind TOS is very telling. I believe that animals that are shipped spend a pretty decent amount of time outside of areas that are strictly temperature-controlled. The chosen packing method didn't appear to give much consideration to that premise. I highly doubt that that final 15 minutes outside of the truck really amounts to anything more than what that already had to endure.

Unless it was in an Ad, or it was emailed to a buyer, I don't know how anyone would know what his actual TOS is.
This is what is on his website:

 

[Fangthane]

Unless it was in an Ad, or it was emailed to a buyer, I don't know how anyone would know what his actual TOS is.

I was taking his email from post #5 as a sort of ex post facto statement of TOS. Point being that even had it been clearly stated, prior to the sale, I think it's saying unflattering things about him that he'd choose to hide behind it. Especially when it's clear that he dropped the ball in the packaging department. It's kinda made moot when he also decided to throw the ostensibly unstated "wholesale" aspect into his reasoning. Gotta love someone who makes up the rules as they go along.

 

[Pasodama]

I was taking his email from post #5 as a sort of ex post facto statement of TOS. Point being that even had it been clearly stated, prior to the sale, I think it's saying unflattering things about him that he'd choose to hide behind it. Especially when it's clear that he dropped the ball in the packaging department. It's kinda made moot when he also decided to throw the ostensibly unstated "wholesale" aspect into his reasoning. Gotta love someone who makes up the rules as they go along.

Was just pointing out that there isn't even a written/understood TOS to begin with.
So, yes, it has the potential of opening up the doors to "make up the rules as they go along".

You are right in that it says some unflattering things.
Whether wholesale, or not, proper packing/shipping must be done.
Also, whether wholesale, or not, one still expects a defect free animal if a defect is not disclosed.

 

[Paul Kent]

Whether wholesale, or not, proper packing/shipping must be done.
Also, whether wholesale, or not, one still expects a defect free animal if a defect is not disclosed.

 

[Johanna]

I admit that I should have known better than to agree to a shipment in such cold weather. I admit fault that I was not there to pick it up immediately. I think this thread went in a different directions than intended. The original issue is the packaging and the non disclosure on the part of the seller. I was not told these animals were wholesale, I was not told there was no guarantee on them if I did not sign, I was not told about defects. I did say I would be home for shipping because I work close to home, so why was there no signature option on the shipping? If not signing for it nullifies any guarantee then why why was I not made aware of this? Why were the defects of the animals not disclosed to me? Why was I not told that due to "wholesale" pricing that they are sold "as is"? He is running a poor business.

I admit I didn't, but me personally I make arrangements to be there. You know for a fact, I assume, that shipments will arrive BY 10:30. Not any time after, unless they were never shipped or there was a major delay, in which case you would be notified. So, why weren't you there in person to get them? I'm currently expecting a shipment tomorrow, and will be no where but on the couch by the front door waiting for the Fedex driver to show up. I am NOT going anywhere till I have received in hand the shipment.

My point is, you KNEW they would be coming and yet you still did not make arrangement for you to cover your end. Regardless of how the seller shipped them, which by all means was poor, you did just the same amount of disservice by not being there.

I was notified that he was going to ship a day before he shipped. I figured I could get home in a timely manner to receive so I agreed and notified him of the situation. I wish I had a job, or lack of, in which I had the luxury of just laying around on my couch waiting for fedex to arrive (which has never made a difference anyway because I never hear them knock, and neither do my dogs). My job requires advanced notification to request time off. I didn't just go shopping. My job is very important and I'm not going to risk losing it so my geckos spend 15 min less in a box, in my enclosed porch, which is likely the same temperature as the fedex truck.
To avoid this situation in the future, I plan to marry someone rich so I don't have to work and can always be home for these important events

On a side note, the male is eating very well and is pretty easy going. The female is still very scared and jumpy.

 

[Kodieh]

I was notified that he was going to ship a day before he shipped. I figured I could get home in a timely manner to receive so I agreed and notified him of the situation. I wish I had a job, or lack of, in which I had the luxury of just laying around on my couch waiting for fedex to arrive (which has never made a difference anyway because I never hear them knock, and neither do my dogs). My job requires advanced notification to request time off. I didn't just go shopping. My job is very important and I'm not going to risk losing it so my geckos spend 15 min less in a box, in my enclosed porch, which is likely the same temperature as the fedex truck.
To avoid this situation in the future, I plan to marry someone rich so I don't have to work and can always be home for these important events

Before you act like you know what you're talking about, I work a 4pm - 1am shift. But, I digress, it's you and your seller we're here to discuss.