• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Eyelid Deformities.

ragnew

ragnew

Pede-a-Freak
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
331
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
47
Location
Denver
Hey Folks,

This year I've recently hatched out some of my High Yellow hatchlings that were from a Father X Daughter pairing, and so far 2 of the 6 hatchlings have had some sort of eyelid malformation. The eyelids are their and functional, BUT they are visably different.

They both seem to have eyelids that are somewhat ingrown on the middle of each top lid (does that make sense). In otherwords these two babies have top eyelids that are grooved in the middle (not split though).

This year I've done the following pairings and have had no ill effects...

Tangerine Albino sibling X sibling (all hatched perfectly fine)
Super Hypo Tang X Albino unrelated stock
Super Hypo Tang X High Yellow unrelated
Abberants X Abberants (Same father different mothers)

All except for the High Yellow (Father X Daughter) have hatched out perfect.....

I'm starting to think that this one is because of the same bloodline being bred together. At first I thought it was because of Temp fluctuations, but I really didn't see how this could have been the case... The incubators always stay at 80 - 82 degrees, but they are opened 2 - 3 times a day to check for babies (would this slight fluctuation be the cause?)

Pleas let me know what your thoughts are...

Thanks,
- Richie
 
I agree that it is probably a result of inbreeding. I don't think that it is a coincidence that traits such as deformed eyelids and kinked tails tend to show up more in morphs. This is why out crossing is important.
-Alice
 
RE:

I agree. I do believe that the mutation is due to the inbreeding. Instead of breeding the same bloodlines try breeding some that are close together not a bloodline with the same DNA base.
 
I still say Temp flucts

I could be wrong but I think its temp fluctuations.
 
...

Yes it probably is due to inbreeding but if the temp flucuated enough then there is a good possibility that that could have caoused it too. But wouldnt you think that the people who have already done this would have had something wrong with theirs?
 
i think several things could be the possible culprit...... too much inbreeding, temp fluctuations but i also think and have had a couple of discussions about this with kelli hammack about the possibility of over suplimenting and the possibility of over abundance of calcium., of course this would be in the breeders especially the mothers.... time will tell and maybe some more info can be found out... but i dont think its nessicarily ONE reason and that is why its so hard to pinpoint.... we know that temps can do this and i suspect genetics can as well but i dont think it's outragiouse to think that over suplimentation or too much calcium could do this as well








*edited for stupidity... i typed alot hehe
 
Thanks for the replies folks...

Robin - I'm glad that you made the comment about the over supplimentation, I was actually wondering if that was the problem with mine, but so far only one female has had this problem.

While all of my geckos are on the same suppliment regimen, I'd have thought that some others would have been showing some kind of symptom if it were because of over using the supps.

Please let me know if you hear anything else about this possiblilty in future talks with Kelli, I'd be interested in hearing what everyone else is thinking about this.

Thanks again everyone..
 
Opening the incubator can actually cause huge fluctuations depending on the room temperature. My eggs hatch very late in the year closing in on winter, the room temp can be 60 degrees!

Inbreeding is a possible cause, but not overly likely to be the primary cause if the line has not been inbred to a large degree prior to this breeding.

Supplementation of course is a concern, but if all things are equal all your hatchlings should be showing the same statistical results.


I will say that some bloodlines seem more prone to deformities even when outcrossed.
 
I agree...

...with all of the responses you have had, but I would not think temperature would be the problem if you were incubating other eggs during the same time and they hatched without any deformities. I tend to think that it is either a genetic inbreeding problem, or supplementation. However, I believe that Vitamin A excess or deficiencies are more commonly associated with eye/eyelid problems, where Hypercalcemia (too much calcium) causes bone malignancies and renal (kidney) failure.
 
I'm starting to think that it is the inbreeding.

I've hatched out about 30 babies so far from this incubator (all of them were incubated at 81 - 82 degrees) and so far only 2 of them have had this problem, in these two cases one sibling was perfectly fine, while the other had the deformities.

I recently hatched out some babies from the sister of the female's babies in question and both of them are 100% perfect. They were however produced from unrelated parents (high yellow X patternless).

The supplements I'm using are Rep-Cal with Vit D3, and Herptivite for the mineral/vitamin supps. However, I did mix both products into one plastic container. Before adding the supps. to the bugs, I stir it up very well with the plastic spoon that I use to dish it out.

Marcia, do you think that this could be the problem? I'm starting to wonder if they are getting to much of the Herptivite with the feedings... But again, I'd be thinking that more then just this pairs babies would be having these problems.

Again, thanks for so many replies... I really do appreciate it. I won't be breeding this pair together again.... Next year, these two will be bred to completely and totally unrelated stock.

Thanks again.
 
hmmmm...

Ritchie, it's hard to say if the problem is related to hypervitaminosis (vitamin overdose), but if you have all of your females on the same regime I would doubt it. It's my opinion that if you are gut-loading your feeders properly, you should not have to supplement with vitamins as often... perhaps only weekly. There would be some line of thought that if you are using calcium with VitD as well as a vitamin supplement you could run into trouble, but if my memory serves me right I don't believe that Rep-Cal's Herptivite has any VitD in it. (???)

During breeding/egging season, I supplement my females with calcium (w/VitD) every feeding, and use vitamins only every 3 or so feedings. I gutload my feeders with a mixture of 9-grain cereal (available in bulk food bins at the grocery store), some Vionate, T-Rex Leopard Gecko Dust... plus I throw in the 'used' powder from dusting the feeders, as well as fresh produce such as collard greens, squash, turnips, red potatoes and apples.

I have had problems in the past with eyelid deformities... some minor and others major, and literally all of them came from the same female. Needless to say, she is retired now and lives a life of luxury in a 20 gal long naturalistic enclosure with 2 other 'old' gals... one being an 11 year old "original" I got as a hatchling who is one of my very first Leos. All have been on the same supplementation method since day-one... call me 'old-school', but if it isn't broken... don't try to fix it!
 
could over calcium cause like calcium deposites on the eys themselves like cataracts in humans? or cause calcium deposites to form under the eye lid causing the "wrinkle" or crease"? ...... i have a calcium deposite on my skull from when i was a kid and brother bashed my head over and over on a solid steel post...... funny thing is my skull never broke cracked or anything... my dad says"its all that hard heaed german in you" he just says that cuz he is a mississippi redneck hehehe
 
Thanks Marcia!

Quote : Everything Marcia said above...:)

Thanks for all the info that you've supplied Marcia... :) I do appreciate it!

Heheh, thats very, very cool how you've got some of your "old" gals setup in a nice, comfy tank all of their own!!! They deserve it.

I'm wondering if it isn't my female in general, maybe shes just not meant to be bred... Ah well, there's more reason to keep them then just breeding you know! Heck, even if I couldn't breed'em, I'd still love them just as much!!! And I'd still have just as many as I do now....

What can I say breeding or not breeding, Leopards ROCK!!! Period... :)
 
Back
Top