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F.I.R.E. show Orlando

H

herpetological

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We just came back from the FIRE show in Orlando. It was a slow weekend but, some vendors did well. Lots of attendee's!!! Good turnout on that part. This could be a great show in the future. Some very disturbing things though..... A vet was in attendance to inspect the animals and make sure imports were properly marked. She did so. However, we were very disappointed in the quality of specimens for sale later.... VERY SKINNY and Dehydrated import Uromastyx's!!! Not just a few. In one tank there was 20-25 specimens.(In an area of about 20"x20") Over half were dead or nearly so. Several skinny adult boas with obvious resp. or IBD's! Several import iguanas that were literally skin and bones! Etc.....Also, we fielded many question on husbandry and sexing. Even showed the customers on care and how to sex each species. We had people come to us saying that the vendor they purchased from said they could keep their crocodile geckos with their beardies and tropical species mixed. we explained what perimiters of temperature and environments each needed. Obviously different.(Not to mention mixing imports and captives) Seems SOME vendors were getting greedy and cared for nothing but, the sale! We had a woman come up and ask about a female ball python she and her 10 year old son had. I was C.B. and about 31/2' A vendor sold her a 3' import male for 20.00 and told her that it was fine to mix them and no quarantine was needed. He also would not guarantee feeding. She went off to try to return it. Unfortunately, we did not see her again. They were very upset they were lied to. If they had come back we were going to give her a C.B. male for free. (No were not saints, it was just sad.)We felt bad since they obviously did not have much money and were very concerned about their current snake.(Nice people!) It's unfortunate because this may make them have a "bad taste" for buying at shows. Who knows if he's given the right info and a good supplier he might be the next Barker or Clark! He might be that company's best customer in the future.!!!This is just one example. There were many. I don't care if it's a 10.00 animal or a 1,000.00 animal. I think everyone should get the same quality time and care. They TRUST US! Sometimes, it may not be the vendors fault...sometimes the customers...But, all these people took the time to ask us... ? I have no problem with imports being sold (Many do quite well), at least the specimens should be in good health and ALL information should be divulged to the customer. Even if it costs a sale. Now do not get me wrong. THERE WERE QUALITY animals available. There were MANY very professional vendors! Great deals on some species! Great show
overall! These issues need to be addressed! Maybe next year these bugs will be worked out. Thanks, Ray Goushaw & Kristina Turk.... Herpetological Breeding Research
 
Well, I'm surprised no one responded to this yet. I guess we are all content to resign ourselves to the fact that that is just what happens at shows.
I personally find it sad and is part of the reason that I do not like to do many shows. It is a downer to see a bunch of sick and dying animals being sold to eager, ill-informed 10 year olds, and I worry about my guys being exposed to whatever diseases these animals may have.
There are a lot of good shows out there of course, and lots of positive aspects to the big shows too. I just dont know what it is going to take for things to change. Education education education--.....and some ethics amongst sellers????

dana
 
Dana is so right on the education. If people would learn more upfront and stop buying from these low quality so called breeders, good breeders that really care and take excellent care of their animals would not have to fight the bottom discount dealers. I am a firm believer in you get what you pay for.

I did not buy any this time, but I did steer many people to dealers there that had nice animals, it was not hard after pointing out the problems with the cheaper ones and explaining that one Vet visit and treatment could end up costing more than the nice size healthy baby a few tables down.

I think most people if information is explained to them are willing to pay more. One couple that was looking at 2 $30 beardies (about 2-3 wks old), ended up buying a $150 and a $125 one from separate breeders that were 4+ months old, spent another $100 on lights..... and I bet they still saved money in the long run, plus heartbreak. The first breeder had told them they could take them outside for 2-3 hours a week, could live together even if siblings and mate and they would only need a 20 gal tank to live in!!!!!! grrrrrrrrrrr I got them away from him when I pointed out a dead baby in the back corner of the tank and he removed it and said, "hey, it happens"
 
FIRE show

Actually, I find it amazing when you look at the number of views and then see how many posts there are in response!!! What's the deal ? I guess people are scared of stepping on toes? !!!! Well when it comes down to ethics and animal welfare issues I'm not!!! When your wrong... your wrong! It would definately be an issue if someone were selling sick puppies or kittens. !!! Then we'd have everyone screaming! To some people these are the same. I think that every show should allow imports BUT...........,
The buyer should get a flyer when they come in.... it should explain the differences between,....Wild Caught.. untreated, Wild Caught..treated, Captive Born Import, Captive Born Domestic, Captive Born and Bred Domestic!!! This way they can make their own choices and if it rolls the next day they will learn and can only blame themselves! I hope that the animals that were in such bad shape were snuck by the vet and not passed over? I absolutely support EVERY breeder out there. Imports are a neccesary evil for some species. EVERY captive bred species out there came from import stock. It's OUR responsibilty to educate the public and be patient.... Hey, we never know who is walking through the front door; Breeders,Pet shop owners looking for suppliers,or kids that want to be future Herpers. We are there not only to sell animals, but to set an example. Raymond Goushaw & Kristina Turk Herpetological Breeding Research
 
FIRE show

Oh , by the way thanks for the two previous people who responded!!!! Can you believe that not one vendor had any disinfectant hand sanitizer for sale. We ran out and couldn't find anyone at the show selling any!!!!!?????Out of all the products they were selling?? Raymond Goushaw Herpetological Breeding Research
 
Maybe it's the cynic in me but would the general public actually read the flyers? How many times have you sold an animal to someone to only get an email two days later asking a common question that is contained in paragraph 2 of your caresheet or even a specific point you discussed to them while they were deciding whether to buy?

I hate paying more for things but it seems the shows that charge a little extra for booths tend to weed out the ones selling inexpensive non-acclimated imports (and poorly bred captive raised animals).
 
Re:Flyers

Yes, I have to agree on both points. I have seen it time and again that people will simply but the cheapest ones. However, an effort should be made. Thanks Ray Goushaw Herpetological Breeding Research
 
I had three bottles of hand sanitizer. Why didn't you come see me? And why would you post that you "can't believe no one had any for sale," when you didn't even have enough to make it through the weekend???

I had a good show, not great, but it was the first time for this show and the venue is not the easiest to find. Nor is that venue attractive to people because of the parking issue. It is centrally located, but that's about all.

Tony does more to protect his customers than any other promoter I know of. What I think some of you fail to realize is that if the vet tried to actually check every, single animal in the building as throughly as you'd like she'd be there for 10 years. I alone brought over 1000 animals. At 30 sec./animal that's over 5 hours at my booth alone just for the first 1000. Do you really want to wait that long for the show to open? Once at his NC show a team of vets did actually inspect (or at least put an eyeball on) every animal I had, it took 4 of them over an hour to complete the task. They pulled a total of 4 animals, 3 of those were because of bad sheds.

And one other thing, there are all kinds of buyers, as well as sellers. Many people ARE simply looking for the best price available, many others are looking to buy from well known breeders who offer service after the sale. I was selling frilled dragons at the show for $100. To many people the price was enough to get them interested. When they asked they were told the animals had just arrived from CA and had not been treated for anything, they were feeding, and appeared to be in good health. For 5 customers that was enough, they paid for thier dragons and went home happy. For one lady, it was not, she wanted a guarantee on the animal. A guarantee I didn't offer. I didn't try to twist her arm, or talk her in to anything. I simply told no her, "No mamm, I don't offer guarantees on wholesale priced animals, if you want a guaranteed frilled, I recommend Ben Siegel." She went and talked to Ben. NO harm, NO foul.
 
Re:Reply

Brian, in no way shape or form have I or will I condem or blame Tony. He has his hands full and tries his best. Good show. I think I said that? I brought 3 bottles and figured that would be enough. There were quite a few people who were interested in simply handling a specimen. I asked the supply vendors only, since most dealers have just enough for themselves. As to inspecting each animal I agree that it would be absurdly time consuming HOWEVER, these were VERY OBVIOUS! I could have ran by the specimens and still spotted them from 10 feet away! Again, let me point out these were exceptions. Before I contine... Let me say that this is a possibility... not a known fact. These specimens may have not be displayed initially. I not blaming anyone but, I do feel that someone involved with the show should have asked them to be taken off display and not sold. I know they were busy.Also, maybe (I) should have (Politely..) pointed it out but, again(I) was worried about stepping on anyones proverbial"toes"and I know if they had not taken it well it would have been a problem. Even in private. Maybe I come across too strongly sometimes but, it's my passion(or compassion) for all I've seen over the years. I think on the whole we all believe in the same morals and ethics. Some people just chose to sit it out and play it safe when it comes to comments.
These were just a few of those points. Hopefully the comments will not be taken as blame but, just constructive "minor" critics of
the whole. (see I even blame myself sometimes for backing off.)
Thanks Ray Goushaw Herpetological Breeding Research
 
Well,,,I know i should not get involved in this,,but I have to... I too,was a vendor at the F.I.R.E expo,,,and I was thoroughly disappointed with the show... Let me tell you what I heard them say,,not what i was told by someone else;; Now,, Tony makes us label imports,,,and that is fine,,however,,,what IS NOT FINE,,is the fact that the local herp Societies were giving lectures to customers on the problems with imported animals...Basically,,,they were telling them that only a moron would buy imported stuff.. Now remember,,,this is WHAT I HEARD THE HERP SOCIETIES SAY,,not what i was told they said...
As a result of those "lectures",,,our sales were down drastically from our other shows..There were alot of people thru the door,,it just didnt seem to me that they were buying very much.


Now,,,let me say this on the Vet,,,she came around to our table several times throughout both days,,and i have to say that I believe if she saw any crappy animals,,,she would have made that vendor remove it from their table...
You know,,,we pay alot of money for tables at these big shows,,and it's a shame that these "herp societies" were stacking the deck before we even got a chance to see them shuffle the cards.. Its kinda funny;;only the herp societies in Florida do this at Tony's shows... Not in Raliegh,,Not Colombia,S.C.,,Not Atlanta,Ga.,,only Orlando and Tampa...
 
Jeff, I heard about that as well. As the secretary of the Central FL Herp. Society let me say this about that... Tony asks that we get volunteers for the show, to help vendors load/unload, point them in the right direction, etc. We tried our best to come up with volunteers, and with a society which has upwards of 80 people at every meeting, we might have had 10 volunteers. The people that did volunteer are the same people that always volunteer, whenever we ask. I myself couldn't even "work" the society table because I had my own.

Those persons which do actually work the society tables are just there to sign up new members and then to talk to people. If a person asks which is the best snake/lizard/turtle whatever, the people working the table are free to give whatever opinion they wish. The thruth is, in most cases if a person is asking the herp society for advice they are probably a newbie and c.b. probably IS THE BEST CHOICE for THEM.

Believe me I am NO FAN of this c.b. only mentality. I laughed out loud at a recent Reptiles Magazine article which stated that only c.b.b. uromastyxs were worth owning. Sure c.b.b. is great IF you've got unlimited funds and the availability of the animals is up to the demand. But how many c.b.b. uromastyxs are produced each year? FAR less than what the market demands, and the truth is that many (if not most) of the wild caught animals do quite well in captivity anyway.

C.B. balls are another great example of the confusion. What does Captive Born mean? To me captive born means born in captivity, so farmed balls count. As such, mine were listed as C.B. Africa. I even got into a discussion with one of Tony's workers who was talking to a customer about what all this stuff meant. He was a ball python breeder and as such sold his offspring for around $50, mine were going for $7. We talked about investment in the animals and what the customer is actually looking for price vs. piece of mind.

Personally, I think there is plenty of room for everyone. Find what you do best, and stick to it, the money will follow.
 
F.I.R.E. Show

I am glad to see some open discussion about this show. I only wish that more vendors and buyers would list their opinions. Feed back is very important. I have been working for Southeast Shows for the past five years. It seems that every venue has its plus and minuses. But hey, that's all part of democracy. Some states are stricter than others. Some states are more lucrative for the vendor, still others more lucrative for the show promoter. Florida seems to be the place for the vendors. Yet, there are still complaints!
As for the Vet checks during this past show, Dr Wissman had a VERY HARD time with many of the vendors. Mostly due to the labeling issue. I, myself, do not know the background on Southeast Shows requesting WC/Import labels. I am not going to begin to wax on that. Just know, that is what the promoter requests. And I do know that many vendors try to sidestep this request. What are these vendors trying to hide? I usually work the ticket booth or info booth. If someone asks for my opinion, I tell them to shop around, ask lots of questions and decide for themselves regarding WC, CB or import. I don't advocate any specifics. I also tell shoppers to be sure to get ALL info necessary for care of animals and about the vendor. Each vendor is different. Some CB vendors are good, some are bad. Same with WC and Import vendors. If I have someone come back with a dead animal during the show, I try to get one of the show employees to go with them to the selling vendor. Southeast Shows certainly does not want an unhappy buyer. And I believe that each and every vendor needs to be upfront about each sale. If a WC is gonna die in a year, tell them. If a CB needs more attention, tell them. Very simple. I have seen vendors come and go because of the reputation they get from buyers.
As for the venue, itself, in Orlando, there were no other options. Twin Towers will not allow any more shows. The Convention Center was booked as was the Marriott. I heard complaints about the venue, complaints about the Hotel, etc. This was the first show. There are kinks to be worked out. Of course, there is more to the story than all that. And many vendors know what I am talking about. Please stay tuned.
Southeast Shows has always asked for feed back from the vendors by way of a form in their packets. We all know not all vendors read their packets. Unfortunately, some vendors fail to fill out the feedback form and find it more entertaining to dish the show on forums without giving the show promoter the benefit of the doubt. What's up with that? Seems to be in line with the complaints of the Herp Societies. It may be unfortunate to some vendors the opinion of some society members. But, these are the same people that helped vendors unload-for FREE. We are, afterall, still a democracy. Each person has their own opinion. I don't know how many other shows offer free help to vendors. Maybe this is something that needs to be discussed. So, vendors need to speak out on the feedback forms. I have a potter friend that works dozen of shows around the states. He unloads and loads with his own help. He was amazed that Southeast Shows offers free labor. I know, it's offered, so why not use it?!? But, why look a gift horse in the mouth. There is always a price to be paid.
If each and every vendor would read their packet before packing for a show, they would know what to expect. Alex has worked hard for Tony ensuring that everything can be anticipated. I could go on and on about this, but will close with one little piece of advice...Don't expect more than you are offered at the shows. Lunch is offered as gratis at most shows, yet I hear vendors complain about the selection. If you don't like the choices, buy your own! It's free, afterall! It is required that tables be covered and skirted, and this info is noted before the show, yet vendors come without such and complain about it every time. I often hear vendors complain about Wayne Hill's show, yet they still do it. But, you can't drive your vehicle into the venue, you have to climb under your table, and lunch is on you! And, I doubt anyone complains to Wayne about such conditions. The aim of Southeast has been to give a little bit more to make the vendors comfortable at each show. This has been Alex's focus with the shows. And that is all they can do. Yet, there are the vendors, and you know who you are, that still expect more!
My recommendation is that any vendor that is unhappy with the shows by Southeast contact the vendors that do the shows regularly and ask them why they keep doing the shows. You may find out a wonderful tidbit of information. They can definitely give you some inside information. And it is not just large scale vendors. Call the Rep Room, Twin Oaks, Armstrongs, Lizards by Design, Ben Siegal, Aline Reptiles, Under the Canopy, etc, etc. I guarantee that these are happy vendors whether they have a lucrative show or not!

Brett
 
Well, since we were there and all...

I personally thought the Orlando show was a great success! We had a really great time and just as important I think the attendees had a great time. The sales weren't bad for us at all, and the contacts were even better. We have had at least a half a dozen customers since the show less than 2 weeks ago, just from chatting and handing out business cards like always. Both Tony and Alex have been real class acts in every dealing we have had with them. All the staff on hand were extremely helpful in getting us situated and making sure we were comfortable. The only complaint I could possibly even come up with is that on Sunday when we left for lunch it cost $5 to park again. Now to be honest, if that's all I have to complain about then I'm NOT complaining one bit! We look forward to doing more of the shows with them and have complete confidence in the expos future. Thanks, Michael Beberman
 
I also know the amount of work that Tony and Alex and all the other staff are having to do to put on a good show... As I said earlier,,the only complaint that I really had was what the Herp Societies were saying... It is hard to make a sale when people have been "forewarned" about imported animals..All in all,,I think Tony's shows are very decent...
 
I have to agree with most of what was said in the last few post. Tony and his staff go beyond the norm for helping.

Many vendors sold out of the main animals they bought to the show, one was sold out by noon on the first day, but those vendors have some really nice quality animals, nice display and take the time to offer some education to not only novice, but experienced owners. I also noted that these are the same vendors that do not allow their animals to be handled by the public, keep the displays clean and don't have half dead or dead animals in the display........ yes, there actually was some that did!

I've been at a table next to the registration one and heard how much good advice they give out to potential owners and never heard them say anything negative to them.

There is always going to be the guy that complains he got the white moon pie and wanted the chocolate one (True) but hey..... it is free and few other shows not only give you a lunch, deliver it to your table with a cold drink and add a moon pie in ;)

I have heard vendor complain they did not do well at these shows, but glancing at their display and condition of animals can tell you why.
 
Doing Well At Shows

On the subject of doing well at shows. Last year was our first year of doing shows. To be honest the dollar return was not so good for us at the show (the connections and networking we did was GREAT for a new company so it was not a loss at all). I started walking around the shows and looking at who was selling what and paying close attention to those that seemed to be doing well.

Some things I noticed. Proper display and booth layout had a lot to do with traffic volume. There are the obvious things that have already been brought up (cage cleanliness, animal health) but also some minor issues that can make or break you. Logical layout (meaning animals in a specific order so those interested can find what their looking for), graphics to catch the eye and draw them to your booth, easily accessable information (we put caresheets on the table and give them out freely), diversity of your offering.

Location plays a big part in how you do as well. We change our booth layout dependent upon where we're located at the show (a middle row layout is different than an end cap layout). For example when we do a middle of the row layout we'll put all the dragons together and then chameleons on another table. When we do an end cap we'll spread them out to pull off of people walking down either aisle (let them see dragons on both sides).

After re-thinking our strategy at the shows our sales tripled this year.
 
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