Final poll on the membership fee program

[leaftail]

Good answer Daniel, I definitely see your point. My question would be, How do we pay for Rich's time and expenses to keep this running?

David Scarboro

Charge elsewhere but not the BOI. That's my opinion, but it's not a choice on the current poll so what can I do? Sounds like Rich has already decided what he's going to do anyway. and it is his choice.

 

[akaangela]

I wanted to let you know I love this site. A small fee is not too much to ask even for me . Really most of us drop a $10 bill and think nothing of it. I know I dont like spending money but will go to a movie or buy soda and not think twice. I would like to see alll those really complaining see how much really work it is to run a site like this. Keep up the good work and thanks

 

[WebSlave]

Although I'm now confused. Did you want people to reply to this poll, or just vote? I would have voted, but I don't agree with any of the choices.

I guess because I am constantly surprised at my lack of understanding in human beings. Who would have guessed that some people would be incensed enough at the $10 fee to say they will not post on the BOI, out of principle I guess, but that same charge doesn't phaze them on the classifieds?

 

[Ophis]

Im kind of hoping a flat fee is imposed. I spend WAY too much time on this site as it is (Lack of willpower) but Im too lazy to pay a fee. a fee would break this sites death grip on my free time. If a fee were imposed I would be " Off like a prom dress"

 

[ms_terese]

Daniel, I disagree. The opportunity to post on the BOI would still be available to anyone. They have to pay for it, that's all. As it stands currently, they have to have internet access and a computer. Seems like a ridiculous comparison, but it's actually in the same vein.

 

[robin d.]

i agree with mark and aimee, daniel, matt and laura

 

[dwedeking]

Daniel, I disagree.

No problem

Seems like a ridiculous comparison, but it's actually in the same vein.

While technically it is in the same vein, it is different in that the fee would be as a result of people on this site as opposed to the fact that a person can't get on the net. While I don't have a problem with Rich's integrity (frankly I don't understand how he can stay as impartial as he is) it would be the appearence of a "clique" that would deter new members. I would rather pay more in banner ads and classifieds to see a continued influx of new members to the site.

 

[Lucille]

Joe:

Some people use this site professionally: breeders, vendors, etc. Some share the information in the forums, asking and giving.
Others have created a feeling of community by posts and polls.
If the only reason you are here is that you have unused free time, perhaps it is time for you to go. Perhaps you will find a person, a hobby, a calling that might be worth ten bucks to you. I hope so.

I spend lots of time here also, but this place means something to me. I dpn't kill time being here, I have to make time to be here.

I donate at least $10 every year buying Girl Scout Cookies, and this site gives me a lot more for my $ (and no calories lol).

$10. Ten Dollars. I just can't believe anyone can buy ANYTHING these days that costs that little and entertains and educated that much.

 

[WebSlave]

A clique of people who can and are willing to pay $10 in order to post on the BOI? Well I have to admit that is an interesting way to look at it. But from my perspective, I would have to say that I would consider it a clique of people who are quite willing and able to step up to the plate to make the BOI a better place to be. A place where maybe some of the garbage will be left at the gate. If that is a clique, then so be it.

Personally, I seriously doubt it will slow down new members to this site at all. Certainly not all of them come here with the sole intention of posting on the BOI, I would hope. So maybe this would even give people more incentive to branch out a little bit and see what else is around on this site to participate in.

I have to admit, yet again, that I am astonished at how high of a hurtle some people believe that penny ante fee will be to many people. Do you guys really believe that so many people ARE so cheap? I guess lucky for you all that I'm not that way, eh?

 

[Ophis]

Lucille

Perhaps Its time for you to live your life as you see fit and I shall do the same with mine. Thankyouverymuch.

 

[Seamus Haley]

Daniel, here's a question you're in a semi-unique position to answer...

I believe that membership will drop off sharply if any such fee is put into place. At what point would you, as a long term banner advertiser and Fauna supporter, take a look at the membership numbers and decide to drop such advertising?

What I predict... might be right, might be wrong but... My thoughts... are that Rich *might* get around four hundred registered paying members. I'd be shocked if it was over five hundred anyway and could easily see it being much lower. The site will be less valuable as a result- sure, no trolls or fighting but also no posts. There's a very real and concrete limit to how much a few hundred people can talk to one another about and I suspect it'll hit that level really quickly.

So four grand, give or take maybe as an immediate influx of cash. And advertisers who now have to sit back and ask themselves if paying for advertising is worth their money. I suspect for at least *some* the answer will be "Not anymore." So the financial situation will STILL be a problem.

 

[Lucille]

Perhaps so, Joe. I was wishing for you to have a meaningful life; but you are certainly free to choose otherwise.

 

[Ophis]

I would just pull the trigger on this ASAP and let the chips fall where they may. If the site starts to nose dive you can always pull back on the stick.

 

[ms_terese]

Unless I misunderstood, everything would still be free except posting on the BOI and posting on the classifieds. That allows people to still search the BOI, use the forums, buy from the classifieds, etc. I believe that will still attract new members.

*shrugs* No matter how you do it, there will be positives and negatives. There are positives and negatives now. Really, the worst that can happen is that people stop using the site, and the site will go away. Webslave won't have the headache, someone else will try to mimic the BOI, and the cycle will continue.

 

[Ophis]

Lucille:

how patronizingly sweet of you. You know nothing of my life or what I get out of fauna.

 

[WebSlave]

Daniel, here's a question you're in a semi-unique position to answer...

I believe that membership will drop off sharply if any such fee is put into place. At what point would you, as a long term banner advertiser and Fauna supporter, take a look at the membership numbers and decide to drop such advertising?

What I predict... might be right, might be wrong but... My thoughts... are that Rich *might* get around four hundred registered paying members. I'd be shocked if it was over five hundred anyway and could easily see it being much lower. The site will be less valuable as a result- sure, no trolls or fighting but also no posts. There's a very real and concrete limit to how much a few hundred people can talk to one another about and I suspect it'll hit that level really quickly.

So four grand, give or take maybe as an immediate influx of cash. And advertisers who now have to sit back and ask themselves if paying for advertising is worth their money. I suspect for at least *some* the answer will be "Not anymore." So the financial situation will STILL be a problem.

Interesting question, no doubt. If such were to be the case, there would STILL be more traffic here then when Dan first started advertising on this site. Far more, in my opininon. How many new people here have even read a tenth of the threads posted on this site, much less just what is reading material in the BOI? A drop in posting on the BOI will not mean a corresponding drop in posting elsewhere on this site. Matter of fact, it may very well become incentive for people to spend much more time posting in those other forums. They won't be lost, just transferred. Some of the discussion forums have been picking up gradually over time, so they will pick up any slack in comparison to what the site had as traffic levels two years ago. People will still be able to view the BOI, which also means they will still be able to view the banner ads. So no matter what happens, this site will still have more then enough visitors to satisfy any advertiser. Maybe even a better, more solid core of serious members that they would want to have coming to their own businesses.

Will the classifieds lose new ads being posted there? Maybe, but then that kind of shoots down the argument to ONLY charge for posting ads there, then doesn't it? If it is NOT affected, then the traffic will STILL be going there, unaffected by the BOI now being a fee based posting area. Another one of those "have your cake and eat it too" scenarios, I do believe. In other words those people telling me that I should ONLY charge for the classifieds cannot believe it will appreciably affect traffic there, or else I guess I would have to suspect their motives for suggesting that I do such a thing. Why would you tell me to do something that you think would cause a drastic drop in posting ads there? Hmm?

Heck, if traffic got cut by 50 percent, this site would still be in the top 5 of those listed on FaunaTopSites. And the quality of the remaining user base here would be far and above anything else out there. All of the freebie-wanters, only give me anything I can get for free, will be GONE. That will not go unnoticed by advertisers, both for the banner ads and the classified sections. People willing to pay for what they want ALSO buy what they want.

Honestly people, except for the doom and gloom predictions, I haven't heard anyone give a real solid reason why charging pocket change to post on the BOI is going to be the end of civilization as we know it. I got the same predictions when I first started the BOI, and more recently I heard similar caterwauling when I decided to set up the **HELL** forum to try to draw off some of the garbage out of the BOI. I believe I know what I am doing here. I am willing to take a risk now and then, and certainly willing to take the consequences, no matter what they turn out to be. You can either decide to back me or not. That is your choice to make. You have to decide what is at stake when you make your own decision.

It's all about perceived value. If someone doesn't believe that posting what they want to post on the BOI is worth $10 to them, then it just is not worth it to me to want to put up with seeing what they have to put there. Make it of some value to make it worth while for me to have this site here for you to use. I think it is time to raise the bar a little bit. If some can't make it over the bar, then I guess that is just the way it is going to have to be. I would rather have 1 quality posting member then 5 drive by frivolous posters any day at all. And I think the time is ripe to make that cut.

And yeah, maybe the doom and gloom predictions WILL be right. This time. But I seriously doubt it. I'm betting on enough people really wanting this site to take a quantum leap over what it has been in the past. That just is not going to happen unless something drastic like this takes place. And it certainly is not going to take place unless we are willing to prune off some of the dead wood in the processs. Maybe it is just time enough now to shed those people who just might be more interested in holding us back then really digging in and helping us to grow.

So for you people saying you are going to be the pruned sections of the membership of this site, left at the wayside, well I wish you well. But I think you will be back when you see us when we reach the next level of development. Because quite frankly, you haven't seen ANYTHING yet.........

 

[WebSlave]

One warning and one warning only. STOP THE BICKERING ON THIS THREAD. NOW! I am rather short of patience lately and feeling kind of like booting a couple of butts. So PLEASE, give me an excuse to do it.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

Yes. Anyone currently having a Contributor membership will be considered as an "Endowment" member if I implement my plan. This will be the top level membership offered. Matter of fact, let me try an experiment to see how it looks here:


Addendum: This membership level will be in effect for the duration of your current Contributor's Membership. If this place goes into effect, this level of membership will be a LOT higher then the current Contributor's Membership.

Rich Like I said Before if it was 10 or 35 it doesnt matter to me How much for the all out red(think gold is a better color) In for a penny In for a pound besides its only money cant take it with you

 

[Uncloudy]

As a small time hobbyist who doesn't breed, kept only 6 to 12 snakes over the last 5-6 years, I think this site is great resource to our hobby. I currently use both sites KS and Fauna and then both useful. This decision would only effect me if the site died I would lose a valuable resource to always learning more and improving my husbandry. As of the now the BOI is just entertainment value for me since I have only once bought 2 snakes over the internet and they came highly recommended by other people I respected in the forums. However, in the future if I were to get any new aquistions or trades I would have no problems to pay to use the BOI as a resource before conducting business. I've only been at this site for a month I'm also thinking about contributing to keep this site going because I think our hobby needs it and it helps spread the word, increases popularity of our hobby, and adds checks and balances to some of the scammers and bad business people out there. Rich this site has been a very valuabe asset to our hobby and I wish you the best of luck in the future.
Think good thoughts.
Chris McLaughlin (Uncloudy)

 

[Mark and Aimee]

Also, Mark and Aimee; I have read your posts with interest on the BOI. Surely it would be worth $10 per year to continue the discourse?

First, thank you. At one point, I had time to provide my two cents on a variety of issue brought to the BOI's attention. That time is gone, and I no longer can occupy myself with so many other peoples' business. Being successful in my own business, as well as a good father and husband has taken priority. The BOI has served it's purpose for me on most occasions - and has been a pointless square dance on others.

I did enjoy using the BOI to send "props" to the people who have done us right. These people are the ones that make doing business on the internet worthwhile. I felt they earned a quick thumbs up. But I've learned in this thread that the simple good guy thread is not wanted. So... That's out the window. I will continue with the feedback ratings, as that seems to be a suitable substitute (as long as people can figure out what it means).

It is not at all about the "worth" of the BOI, or about the $10. I just don't look at the BOI all that often anymore. Occasionally, I will allow myself to be pulled into a BOI thread, but it is usually because of a thread in another place on the web site. I do utilize the classifieds on a fairly frequent basis, and would be willing to pay up to $100/year or more even, if the fly-by-night operations are mostly eliminated by going to a fee-based classifieds system.

So... I guess my bottom line is I haven't used the BOI all that much lately anyway, so reducing my participation to the classifieds and other forums would not be a terrible loss to me. It appears that most of the BOI "regulars" use it as more of a form of entertainment or an outlet for their daily frustrations. These regulars will still be there after a fee is implemented.

Mark