Bad Guy Fire and Ice Dragons (Terri Sommella)

[joshjtd]

Nicole, had he come to me first, this could have been avoided. As it is, he chose to post on this thread a whole day before I even knew about it. A refund now will not make this thread go away.

Terri,

You yourself posted emails where I made a request for a refund. You make posts like this yet you also make posts where you state that you must stick to your TOS. So which is it, the BOI thread or the TOS that is the issue?

 

[bliss]

Nicole, had he come to me first, this could have been avoided. As it is, he chose to post on this thread a whole day before I even knew about it. A refund now will not make this thread go away.

So because he brought something out into the public, it upset you THAT bad? Granted, he may have posted it too soon.. but still, it did a good job of pointing out the open-ended refund policy you have.

A refund now will not make the thread go away? You are right it wouldn't make it go away. But still, would sending someone a dragon they no longer wanted, stressing it out in the process, in addition to having to deal with the BBB and police be any easier? Seriously... what the heck?

 

[ozz465]

I just read this whole thread and once again i see a seller willing to lose potential future customers over something as easy as a refund.

I dont see this as a case of buyers remorse at all,the agreed on animal was not ready on the agreed on date simple as that.

having someone 1st post defending the seller here as a great person to buy from and yet conveniently not post that there business partners is very shady.

saying that because of the boi post there will be no refund is a horrible bs excuse.

and changeing ure TOS afther the fact is admitting your TOS was no clear and is easily argued agaisnt in court.


To the OP is suggest u contact the BBB and the police asap with copies of every email and post here by the seller and DO NOT take a $50 loss just to get your money back .It is your money why should you negotiate to get it back?


All this thread has done to me personally is to make 100% sure never to buy from Fire and ice dragons and there Affiliates.

 

[sms]

Actually, nothing will make this thread go away, not even a mod.

BUT you can change things around and make it better and you know that.

So can Josh. He can admit he was wrong to start this thread and he should have contacted me first. Do you think that will happen?

We will abide by the online Guarantee. To me, that is the most fair way to handle this. Josh gets his money anyway and no compromise to our business ethic is given.

 

[lanceheads]

Nicole, had he come to me first, this could have been avoided. As it is, he chose to post on this thread a whole day before I even knew about it. A refund now will not make this thread go away.

So, he's a mind-reader? Why should he TELL you about this thread? Who cares IF you knew about it? Would it have made a difference? (don't think so).
YOUR'E the one that's looking horrible here by that statement.
I will put you on the list, the NOT TO BUY FROM list.

Randal Berry

 

[AndreaH]

I totally agree with you on that Nicole.
Terri you have a good reputation, why are you risking it over $300? Turn this around and put yourself in his position. You would be doing the same thing. You may have not started this thread, but you can change the out come very easily by refunding the money. You know just as well as the rest of us that if he double ships with a dragon that young can possibly cause a DOA back to you. Are you really that stubborn that your willing to risk the health of one of your babies? The baby as of right now can go right back up for sale and you made a profit of $50, so whats the problem?

 

[joshjtd]

I just read this whole thread and once again i see a seller willing to lose potential future customers over something as easy as a refund.

I dont see this as a case of buyers remorse at all,the agreed on animal was not ready on the agreed on date simple as that.

having someone 1st post defending the seller here as a great person to buy from and yet conveniently not post that there business partners is very shady.

saying that because of the boi post there will be no refund is a horrible bs excuse.

and changeing ure TOS afther the fact is admitting your TOS was no clear and is easily argued agaisnt in court.


To the OP is suggest u contact the BBB and the police asap with copies of every email and post here by the seller and DO NOT take a $50 loss just to get your money back .It is your money why should you negotiate to get it back?


All this thread has done to me personally is to make 100% sure never to buy from Fire and ice dragons and there Affiliates.

Thank you for your support. I am willing to take the loss of $50 for the animals sake. I am very passionate for reptiles and do not wish to cause stress/death due to a stubborn seller.

 

[sms]

I dont see this as a case of buyers remorse at all,the agreed on animal was not ready on the agreed on date simple as that.

No it is NOT that simple. He pre-orderd a dragon, his dragon is ready, he needs the money and so is starting this thread without ever contacting us to begin with.

I believe thinking people will see that the best way to treat customers fairly is to treat everyone the same. If you do not agree, that is certainly your option.

 

[ozz465]

I dont see this as a case of buyers remorse at all,the agreed on animal was not ready on the agreed on date simple as that.

No it is NOT that simple. He pre-orderd a dragon, his dragon is ready, he needs the money and so is starting this thread without ever contacting us to begin with.

I believe thinking people will see that the best way to treat customers fairly is to treat everyone the same. If you do not agree, that is certainly your option.

but was the dragon ready on the original agreed on time and date?
How would you know what the OP needs?

As for your last statement people will see from all this that you have blatantly held hostage to the OP"s money and have yourself posted that your own TOS was poorly worded and will/have changed it to cover yourself.

 

[sms]

Thank you for your support. I am willing to take the loss of $50 for the animals sake. I am very passionate for reptiles and do not wish to cause stress/death due to a stubborn seller.

Yes we are stubborn in defending the right of every prior customer who read and abided by the guarantee and those to come. You bet. One loud person should not be treated any differently than everyone else. It's funny. You will get your money ultimately anyway since that is what you care about, so this is all a big to do for nothing.

 

[Omnomnami]

So can Josh. He can admit he was wrong to start this thread and he should have contacted me first. Do you think that will happen?

We will abide by the online Guarantee. To me, that is the most fair way to handle this. Josh gets his money anyway and no compromise to our business ethic is given.

Posting this thread was in no way wrong on his part other then posting a bit hastily.

And like Daniel said:

but still, it did a good job of pointing out the open-ended refund policy you have.

And now there are many people out there that are aware of how unreasonable you can be.

Like when you say you will ship when the weather is better or once the dragon has grown more, yet you say you'll ship the dragon to him only to have him ship it back and risk it's life for a simple refund.

 

[bliss]

You are really not getting this. To change company policy for one person is unfair to every other honorable customer. How would you feel if you were a customer viewing this and you abided by the 'contract' and someone else was given leeway because he chose to post a smear campaign for no bonifide reason? What kind of message does that give? Maybe you handle business that way, but we do not. He pre-ordered a dragon. That dragon is here waiting to be shipped.

Actually I would be quite fine, considering it would be none of my business.

He did have a bona fide reason... he decided he no longer wanted the dragon! I don't know what all this stuff is with you and trust, faith, etc... don't get me wrong, they are good things to have, but you are taking it to an unprofessional level.

Actually, I handle business as such: If the animal hasn't been shipped, then your money can be returned at any, in full, if that is what you want to do. And the money is kept in paypal before it is transferred to the bank.. Because until the animal has been sent out, it's still THEIR money. Once it has been shipped out and they change their mind an hour before they get it, then that would be a different story.

Sometimes, you can't hide behind your Terms of service and policies. You have to understand that there are certain circumstances that cannot be have your Terms and policies attributed to them.

 

[joshjtd]

So can Josh. He can admit he was wrong to start this thread and he should have contacted me first. Do you think that will happen?

We will abide by the online Guarantee. To me, that is the most fair way to handle this. Josh gets his money anyway and no compromise to our business ethic is given.

Compromise your business ethics? Shipping a dragon that you know will be returned when the buyer has offered to eat $50 is compromising your business ethics?

Terri, please see reason here. I do not wish to have to take this to the extreme end, but I will if I must. If you read my posts, you will see that many folks scolded me for starting this thread. Many folks thought that I jumped the gun. While I may not have apologized to you directly, I did say that I respected you as a breeder. I am sorry if you feel that I could have handled this better. I had made a request for a refund and had that request been honored, I would not have made this thread.

I am being more than resonable here.

 

[sms]

but was the dragon ready on the original agreed on time and date?
Yes. While there is no date that can be set for when dragons ahcth, shed out, etc. he certainly knew what he was getting every step of the way. This post is a ruse. Even if you read his original comments you can tell he was not sure.

As for your last statement people will see from all this that you have blatantly held hostage to the OP"s money and have yourself posted that your own TOS was poorly worded and will/have changed it to cover yourself.

The Gaurantee worked for thousands of people over 12 years. Now it's working for josh, too. He will get his refund ultimately once he abides by the process mentioned in the gaurantee.

 

[cinderbird]

I will show you the pic in 2 weeks when your dragon sheds out since that is what you asked us to do this morning. We will ship the dragon. If you do not like this dragon, return it at your expense for a full refund.

It's a shame but you have backed us into a corner with this post and the only way to work it out now is to follow the online guarantee.

With this statement, this bad guy thread is completely warranted.

You are willing to put the stress if shipping on a baby beardie, all to save your "business reputation?"

You are putting the value of some cash over the health and well-being of an animal that you produced. I can't believe you would allow yourself to ship an animal to someone who has clearly stated they do not want it.

What are you going to do in two weeks and 2 days when you ship josh his dragon, he ships it back next day and then you refund him, pat yourself on the back and go "good job, Fire and Ice dragons, we stuck to our guns!" Because that attitude will lose you customers and lose you a ton of respect.

You are almost completely unwilling to work with your customer. Based on the quoted portions of the original terms from your website, I can't believe you are taking this route. You are doing what bad guys do, you are hiding behind your TOS instead of working with a CUSTOMER. You and josh might be having a disagreement and you can't "trust" him anymore, but you still have his money and his dragon (which has been pointed out in this thread already).

You go on and on about treating customers fairly.. This isn't a one size fits all business. We are dealing with LIVE animals here. MOST business have their terms of service as a guideline. You have yours rule your entire outfit with an iron fist. You cannot make a term or rule for every possible occurrence that may happen in a business like this. Do yourself and your business a favor, and apply your "rules" in a way that will allow everyone to benefit from this--you, josh and MOST IMPORTANTLY the baby dragon.


Your guarantee didn't clearly state anything. Did you ever make josh aware that his purchase was a "special order"? Or are customers supposed to know that what odd miss used terms mean? Special order means ordering something special, like, perhaps if he requested you pair two specific dragons or something. But putting down a payment for an animal you don't even know will be produced counts as "special order"? I can see the need for a non refundable deposit that would be clearly stated. But not even refunding part of his purchase price?

Change the TOS on your website, refund Josh and move on. That would be the only outcome that will save any shred of your reputation.

I don't comment on BOI posts often. I try to avoid commenting on BOI posts and just gather information. But this situation really ruined my mood. I will absolutely never be doing business with you, and if anyone I know asks about your business I will do my best to steer them away and only direct them to to this thread.

 

[aleria]

The Gaurantee worked for thousands of people over 12 years. Now it's working for josh, too. He will get his refund ultimately once he abides by the process mentioned in the gaurantee.

The process that is going to kill the dragon that you supposedly care so much about, when he is willing to forfeit all of that stress for the sake of the dragon and just give you the shipping cost flat out to get his refund.
If it weren't for all of the infractions I'd get then I'd really give you a piece of my mind for your complete disregard for that animals life just because of your precious little open-ended, screw your customers, TOS.

 

[ozz465]

The Gaurantee worked for thousands of people over 12 years. Now it's working for josh, too. He will get his refund ultimately once he abides by the process mentioned in the gaurantee.

You seem to be avoiding my question , was the dragon shipped on the day and time agreed to?? if not why is the OP held liable for that when it was clearly on you??


also u seem to be ok with the fact that the dragon will have to be shipped twice for all your stubbornness. SO in many eyes you are not a person to do business with .

 

[joshjtd]

When you and I talked on the phone you said I was unwilling to work with you. You said that a compromise consisted on give on both ends. I was wanting the full refund and you were not willing to give. So I posted on these forums a very comprosing offer. You get to keep the dragon and $50. You can then sell the dragon off make your normal fee + the $50 from our deal. You are in a win win position here.

 

[sms]

Compromise your business ethics? Shipping a dragon that you know will be returned when the buyer has offered to eat $50 is compromising your business ethics?

Terri, please see reason here. I do not wish to have to take this to the extreme end, but I will if I must. If you read my posts, you will see that many folks scolded me for starting this thread. Many folks thought that I jumped the gun. While I may not have apologized to you directly, I did say that I respected you as a breeder. I am sorry if you feel that I could have handled this better. I had made a request for a refund and had that request been honored, I would not have made this thread.

I am being more than resonable here.

If you are truly now remorseful, then return the dragon once it is shipped and you will receive your refund. You have changed your mind many times in one day on several occasions. The only safe way to handle you at this point is to abide by the written Guarantee. Like I said. Many times. You walk away with your refund, while this thread stays forever. Who is not being fair to whom?

 

[AndreaH]

Ok so if you ship the dragon to him and he immediately takes it to the vet and there is something wrong with it are you going to honor a full refund? When I say immediately I mean day one an hour from when the package comes. Then if he does that then how long before you can ship it back to you without creating undue stress a month later, week later, 2 weeks later. This is another hole in your TOS. Double shipping a young dragon can cause death regardless if the OP takes it to the vet the day it gets there and the day he ships it back, so how long is he suppose to keep the dragon?
This is ridiculous! You have the dragon there with you and yet you wont give him a refund knowing he doesnt want it! That isnt love for your animals or good business practices!