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first baby with the craziest pattern for me...BIG downside though

M

Manhattan Herps

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IT'S SEVERELY DEFORMED!

this was the result of a normal x jungle albino pairing, complete surprise..wasnt expecting an extreme little jungle to pop out..butthis comes with the territory, after looking at it closely it is severely deformed, one of its eyes is deformed, its tail is deformed and his left arm is just about connected to his vent by a strand of connected skin,

i was looking foward to this egg hatching because its from my favorite pair, i have other eggs in there from them, but i doubt they will be as extreme as this little guy, im totally heartbroken..after all the premies, and now deformaties..whats next...
 

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I've been dealing with all first year breeders this season, both the geckos and me. So far of the 14 eggs I have had laid,I only have 5 left in the incubator. The first few were due to inexperience on omy part I am sure, and I admit that, but the last few that caved were in perfect condition and in perfect environment when they caved.

I know how crestfallen I feel when I see an egg collapse, I can only imagine howmuch it would suck to have THAT happen. All part of the process I know, and I am sure I will see my share of that as well in the future.

Sorry to read about it though, even sorrier when I see the crazy pattern on that little one.

Lets hope the other eggs hatch out healthy and with similar patterns!!!

Good luck!
 
Oh Dan I am so sorry about the baby leo and I hope that is the end of your problems for this season!
 
Bummer Dan..... Unfortunatly as you know, I have been dealing with this as well..... Every egg from my sunglow female has either died or the neonates have hatch way to early..... And a few of the babies were absolute stunners but not one lived..... Better luck with the rest buddy.....
 
thanks for the comfort guys, apreciate it, hopefully the other iggs from this pair will be just as nice or better, i've got my fingers crossed

thanks again guys
 
That sucks!...I've had several hatch and die quickly or not quite make it to hatching looking very similar looking to that (not patternwise though). They were from a jungle (pastel maybe...) to hypo tangerine LV albino. Of the 6 or so eggs to go "full term" from the pair...only one has hatched without any severe deformities (Sake who I started a thread about)...and she has the least "jungle" looking pattern of any of the others...I'm not sure if the problem was temp related or genetic...I really hope that the rest of yours hatch out fine!!!
 
Awww,,, poor lil' guy. I am so sorry to see that Dan. I know that the others will turn out just fine for you. In the picture on my computer, it looks as though his left eye is almost translucent. Is it just me or is his eye color very strange?
Good luck with the other hatchlings, I am sure they will be just lovely!
 
That totally sucks. However....if one hatched with a super cool pattern...then maybe some of the other will as well!
 
I was just wondering if anybody as compared notes or done any studies to determen what could be causing all the issues alot of us are having this year?
 
0hhhh nooo...

I am so sorry, Dan. I honestly know how it feels, and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. This year had indeed been full of tragedies like this for many breeders I know... last year seemed like a year of infertile eggs, and now this. I can honestly say that I have probably lost close to 100 babies so far this season to infertile eggs, eggs failing just prior to hatching, premature hatchlings dying shortly after hatching, and some just couldn't make it out of the egg. It is devastating! I am sad to see this happen, Dan... Hell, even my female Schnauzer, Star, gave birth last weekend to a single, deformed puppy! It was perfectly formed in every way... except it had no eye, nose, or mouth openings. Just a head with ears and no face! I am still sick thinking about it.

I guess my question would be... are we really seeing more of these problems, or are we finally getting to the point where we feel like we can be honest enough to express the reality of these tragedies? I know that after over 10 years of breeding these beautiful, gentle creatures that the past 2 years have been extremely disheartening and disappointing. What is the common denominator of these failures? Are we finally coming to the grim results of years of inbreeding? Is it just a natural cycle of purging and 'survival of the fittest'? Are there just so many products on the market now that we somehow think that if "a little is good then a lot must be better" and over supplementing our breeders?

There are soooo many people on the 'Leopard Gecko Breeder' bandwagon now that it is impossible to keep track of the gene pool, much less how everyone is caring for their geckos and the offspring they produce. I can't speak for everyone, but it really scares me! Are we so hell-bent on "quantity" that we are oblivious to "quality"? Geeze, anyone that has a couple of Leopard Geckos that breed and produce offspring can make a website and become a 'breeder' today.

This 'rant' is not pointed at you, Dan... or anyone directly. I am just sharing your pain, desperately searching for answers, and venting along with you. What a shame to lose such a beautiful little life. I am so sorry.
 
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I also wonder if it's all the inbreeding catching up.

As excited as I am about starting to breed next year, I'm being very selective about the geckos I'm getting. I'm trying to achieve the greatest genetic diversity possible with my currently meager budget. I'm starting small, and slow, and I'm OK with it. This is one breeder that will be going for quality over quantity.

I think it's foolish to believe that you can continue to inbreed constantly and not have problems down the line. I applaud the breeders I know that outcross as much as possible. It's a slower road to success for sure...but it's much better in the long run for the species as a whole.

I'm not sure how to put everything I'm feeling into words right now, so I'll leave my post as is. I personally find the whole issue a bit disturbing. Please don't take anything I've said personally. While I realise that inbreeding is a necessary evil at times, I feel it's a little too accepted in the gecko community as a whole.
 
Golden Gate Geckos said:
I am so sorry, Dan. I honestly know how it feels, and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. This year had indeed been full of tragedies like this for many breeders I know... last year seemed like a year of infertile eggs, and now this. I can honestly say that I have probably close to 100 babies so far this season to infertile eggs, eggs failing just prior to hatching, premature hatchlings dying shortly after hatching, and some just couldn't make it out of the egg. It is devastating! I am sad to see this happen, Dan... Hell, even my female Schnauzer, Star, gave birth last weekend to a single, deformed puppy! It was perfectly formed in every way... except it had no eye, nose, or mouth openings. Just a head with ears and no face! I am still sick thinking about it.
Click to expand...

I agree with you totally Marcia. I hate that Dan or any of us is going through this bad streak of luck. I am also very sorry to hear of your puppy my dad had a similar experince with his minature pomeranians last year out of a litter of 3 only one surived and my wife and I adopted it she has some toe deformitieds so we had her fixed and kept her for ourselves. It has been a rough year with her but she seems to be doing great now. Only weights 1 1/2 lbs. the vet said that it is probally as big as she is going to get.

Golden Gate Geckos said:
I guess my question would be... are we really seeing more of these problems, or are we finally getting to the point where we feel like we can be honest enough to express the reality of these tragedies? I know that after over 10 years of breeding these beautiful, gentle creatures that the past 2 years have been extremely disheartening and disappointing. What is the common denominator of these failures? Are we finally coming to the grim results of years of inbreeding? Is it just a natural cycle of purging and 'survival of the fittest'? Are there just so many products on the market now that we somehow think that if "a little is good then a lot must be better" and over supplementing our breeders?
Click to expand...

This is where I think if we could share our problems honestly we may be able to figure out whats going on. This site as made so many strides to protect the buyer and breeders that it only seems logical that we could create some type of board just for problems like these to compare notes. Sharing information is the only way we can get to the bottom of these problems.

Golden Gate Geckos said:
There are soooo many people on the 'Leopard Gecko Breeder' bandwagon now that it is impossible to keep track of the gene pool, much less how everyone is caring for their geckos and the offspring they produce. I can't speak for everyone, but it really scares me! Are we so hell-bent on "quantity" that we are oblivious to "quality"? Geeze, anyone that has a couple of Leopard Geckos that breed and produce offspring can make a website and become a 'breeder' today.
Click to expand...

I agree with you here also about so many people on the 'Leopard Gecko Breeder' bandwagon. And it does raise some questions about the gene pool and how they are cared for. As far as the gene pool I myself am at my wits end as to what to do with my SHTCT's. I am not sure if I should buy more SHTCTs or get some wild caught to cross in or any other combination. I fit in the bandwagon phase of what you said because this is my first year breeding but I am trying to be responsible with what I am doing. I don't want to be some big breeder (right now anyway or in the near future) I am just trying to breed enough to fund other high quality geckos for myself. I am taking it slow and more than anything just having fun working with these great geckos.
 
Golden Gate Geckos said:
I guess my question would be... are we really seeing more of these problems, or are we finally getting to the point where we feel like we can be honest enough to express the reality of these tragedies?
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I think that this would be more true than the inbreeding theory.....

Being a snake breeder for many years, I have seen lots of deformities that I never really had an outlet to talk about, accept with other friends that breed also......

Being that fauna is a friendly type atmosphere, I think people are more comfortable with sharing info like this with out fear of being told they do not know what they are doing or flat out being flamed.....

I think this info should be talked about to let others that are new to all of this that it is not all great when you breed animals...... There will be plenty of hard times and problems.....
 
Gregg M said:
Being that fauna is a friendly type atmosphere, I think people are more comfortable with sharing info like this with out fear of being told they do not know what they are doing or flat out being flamed.....

I think this info should be talked about to let others that are new to all of this that it is not all great when you breed animals...... There will be plenty of hard times and problems.....
Click to expand...

Very true and very well said!
 
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