First Bloods

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Well, I guess their's a first time for everything!

I received 1.3 Bloods this morning...Why add Bloods to my collection you ask? O well, because they're het Anery Stripe of course!

Only one of the girls decided she would stay still for a picture, so here she is. Isn't she just darling?

 

[jaxom1957]

I received 1.3 Bloods this morning...Why add Bloods to my collection you ask? O well, because they're het Anery Stripe of course!

Are these "bloodred" as in "selective bred for red coloration" or "diffused bloodred", the pattern? Certainly looks red enough!

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I've never heard of the term Bloodred used for anything BUT Diffused.

Depending who you speak to, Bloodreds are selectively bred Diffused or Diffused is a fancy name for Bloodred. Personally, I like useing Diffused & then Bloodred for those with a ton of red.

Mine are Diffused Bloodreds het Anery Stripe.

 

[jaxom1957]

Depending who you speak to, Bloodreds are selectively bred Diffused or Diffused is a fancy name for Bloodred. Personally, I like useing Diffused & then Bloodred for those with a ton of red.
Mine are Diffused Bloodreds het Anery Stripe.

I use Diffused to describe the pattern. Bloodred doesn't make sense as a pattern name because a) the snake can be diffused with no red whatsoever, and b) the color was selectively bred, along with the diffused pattern, but the color does not breed true. The color has to be multi-gene influenced, and therefor not a true morph of it's own. I consider Bloodred the equivalent of Okeetee: it describes a desirable looking snake of the color, independent of which specific alleles were involved in making it that way.

Calling a snake that may not have any red in it at all "Bloodred" makes as little sense to me as calling an anerythristic snake a "black albino". It does not compute and my brain throws a circuit breaker.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I use Diffused to describe the pattern. Bloodred doesn't make sense as a pattern name because a) the snake can be diffused with no red whatsoever, and b) the color was selectively bred, along with the diffused pattern, but the color does not breed true. The color has to be multi-gene influenced, and therefor not a true morph of it's own.

I agree.

I consider Bloodred the equivalent of Okeetee: it describes a desirable looking snake of the color, independent of which specific alleles were involved in making it that way.

But yet, that is not what it means to everyone else in the hobby.

 

[jaxom1957]

But yet, that is not what it means to everyone else in the hobby.

I spent several hours this afternoon reading threads going back over three years on that topic. The building consensus was that using bloodred to describe the pattern was inadvisable, for much the same reasons I noted. Diffused wasn't a great deal more popular, but none of the suggested alternatives garnered much support, so diffused remained the least disliked alternative. I would suggest searching either diffused or bloodred and reading the threads. "Everyone else in the hobby" isn't of the accord you suppose.

 

[Lauren Summey]

Congrats on the new additions!!

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I spent several hours this afternoon reading threads going back over three years on that topic. The building consensus was that using bloodred to describe the pattern was inadvisable, for much the same reasons I noted. Diffused wasn't a great deal more popular, but none of the suggested alternatives garnered much support, so diffused remained the least disliked alternative. I would suggest searching either diffused or bloodred and reading the threads. "Everyone else in the hobby" isn't of the accord you suppose.

Agreed, but Bloodred has never been used as for anything but Diffused, that is my point. So because you think it is in reference to animals that do not carry the genes for Diffused, you are in the minority. Their is a thread on this very forum where Joe went into detail why he disliked the term Diffused.

Trust me, I don't need to search for Bloodred or Diffusion, I know they are one & the same; and that in some individuals opinion, Bloodred is a selectively bred Diffusion (which I agree with as I've stated).

Thank you Lauren, for the compliments.

 

[Mary-Beth is KoRny]

because they're het Anery Stripe of course!

I was wondering why you got all of these non-striped babies.

Lovely Miamis, hypos, and Bloods.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Thank you Mary-Beth.

 

[Charlie]

Man, she looks better in the picture than when I put her in the box! Hope they turn out awesome and produce some stripes!

 

[jaxom1957]

Agreed, but Bloodred has never been used as for anything but Diffused, that is my point. So because you think it is in reference to animals that do not carry the genes for Diffused, you are in the minority. Their is a thread on this very forum where Joe went into detail why he disliked the term Diffused.
Trust me, I don't need to search for Bloodred or Diffusion, I know they are one & the same; and that in some individuals opinion, Bloodred is a selectively bred Diffusion (which I agree with as I've stated)

I don't think we disagree on what Bloodred should mean: a Diffused pattern corn snake selectively bred to maximize red coloration and minimize contrast between saddle and field.

Unfortunately, I keep running across "bloodred" used to describe snakes of dark red color, whether or not they have the Diffuse pattern. Because of this, I've opted to not accept Bloodred as automatically synonymous with Diffuse. As a consumer, I feel that's prudent.

I don't sell snakes, and I don't arbitrarily change the description of snakes I've purchased, so it doesn't matter much to the rest of the world what I infer or imply with the term, but I do try to be quite specific in my descriptions. To me, a snake with the pattern but not the coloration is Diffuse, a snake with the coloration but not the pattern is "bloodred colored", and snakes with both are Diffuse Bloodred.

 

[INSANE CANES]

Congrats on the great looking clutch.

 

[Mary-Beth is KoRny]

Unfortunately, I keep running across "bloodred" used to describe snakes of dark red color, whether or not they have the Diffuse pattern.

Those people are using the name bloodred incorrectly.

Even the people who like the term "diffused" for this pattern morph agree that a nice red diffused corn can be called a bloodred.

Quite honestly, I don't understand why you questioned Stephanie. Her snake is clearly showing diffusion.

 

[jaxom1957]

Quite honestly, I don't understand why you questioned Stephanie. Her snake is clearly showing diffusion.

First, I didn't "question Stephanie"; I asked Stephanie a question. No bare lightbulbs were hanging in the room and her lawyer wasn't necessary to protect her Fifth Amendment rights.

I asked which she meant by "Bloodred" because there is no photograph of the belly to show me whether it is clear. There is no clean photograph of the head to show me whether it was grey. Being a hatchling, I have no way of knowing whether the red coloration will spread because, given the lack of photographs of the only two indicators of Diffusion in a neonate with which I am familiar, I genuinely wanted to know at what I was looking. I wanted to know what another neonate having that same phenotype upon which I came most likely was.

I asked a question because I was genuinely unsure of what I was seeing and wanted to know. I was going to be receiving a hatchling that was either Diffuse or het for Diffuse and wanted to know for what to look. Isn't that the reason most people ask questions, because they seek information?

I am sorry I asked, mainly because the tone of too many of the replies has been rude, accusatory or meant to belittle. No, I am not thin-skinned. Being told that "everyone else in the hobby" does it another way (a demonstrably inaccurate statement) or that the writer "doesn't need" to do the research (which I obviously had done) are statements meant to put me in my place. Yes, I am rather new to corn snakes. Because of that, I research every aspect of every morph that appears in one of my snakes or that I find appealing in photographs or descriptions. When I ask a question, it is because I have yet to find the answer in my readings or the answer is specific to an individual and answerable only by the persons familiar with the individual.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I asked which she meant by "Bloodred" because there is no photograph of the belly to show me whether it is clear. There is no clean photograph of the head to show me whether it was grey. Being a hatchling, I have no way of knowing whether the red coloration will spread because, given the lack of photographs of the only two indicators of Diffusion in a neonate with which I am familiar, I genuinely wanted to know at what I was looking. I wanted to know what another neonate having that same phenotype upon which I came most likely was.

The snake pictured is obviously a Bloodred/Diffusion even without belly or head shots. The name Diffusion derived from the way the coloring on the sides of this morph mesh. If you look at the picture in the first post, check out her sides. She does not show the BEST Diffusion, but one or two of them that I have do, I will post a better picture of what I'm talking about. A grey head is not always present in this morph either. I'll get you head shots to see early tomorrow morning (work 6pm-6am, so I have to head out shortly).

Being told that "everyone else in the hobby" does it another way (a demonstrably inaccurate statement) or that the writer "doesn't need" to do the research (which I obviously had done) are statements meant to put me in my place.

No, my statment was not inaccurate. I told you that useing the term Bloodred for anything BUT Diffused is not how everyone else in the hobby does it. Please do not twist my words around. I also do not need to do the research, that is a fact. I am sorry if that is not easily accepted. These are the first Bloods I've owned, not my first Cornsnakes.

Yes, I am rather new to corn snakes. Because of that, I research every aspect of every morph that appears in one of my snakes or that I find appealing in photographs or descriptions. When I ask a question, it is because I have yet to find the answer in my readings or the answer is specific to an individual and answerable only by the persons familiar with the individual.

Which is the right way to do things and I applaud you for it!

 

[jaxom1957]

The name Diffusion derived from the way the coloring on the sides of this morph mesh.

Because "diffusion" of the side seems to be something like "motley", a trait with so much variation that only experience can tell a normal from a poor diffuse or a poor motley, the characteristics that I was told to look for were clear bellies and, often but not always, a grey head, with or without a "moaning ghost" pattern.

The snake pictured is obviously a Bloodred/Diffusion even without belly or head shots.

To an experienced breeder or hobbyist, probably. To someone new to the hobby? No, or I wouldn't have asked.

I realize that I often come across as pedantic. A former college professor best understood my obsession with accuracy, down to the minutia. When I raised my hand to ask a question, she replied, "Lee, can you save it for the end of class? Most of the class won't understand the question you're asking, much less my answer." I tend to want all of the data, however trivial. I want to have as much knowledge as possible on a subject that affects me, to assure myself that I am on solid ground in my understandings.

Neurotic, anal-retentive and insecure? I don't have issues, I have entire subscriptions.

 

[T and J's Corns]

Neurotic, anal-retentive and insecure? I don't have issues, I have entire subscriptions

I resemble that remark!

I realize not everyone has to do the research , but sharing the information may go a great distance in the edumacation of us peons.. Not everyone has done the extensive research, after all we just try to learn..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[cka]

bit late on this thread, but...

...You could make a case for "bloodreds" to also be a locality trait-specific corn...the original ones that first appeared came from an area in North Florida, much as "Miamis" were caught in the surrounding area around Miami and "Okeetee's" were found in Jasper County, SC...The difference is you can breed it into other corns to express again in 2nd generation babies, vs. miami's and okeetee's influencing their offspring's appearance...altho...normal is also a "trait" lol and maybe it really does "express" when you clutch out a perfect okeetee or miami looking baby in 2nd, 3rd generations or when crossed to another, maybe unsuspectingly, similar "normal" corn...





ps Stephanie, I'll have your female het lava pewter long enough to be able to do a breeder loan with the male...but thats cool with me

 

[cka]

Bloodred

http://cccorns.com/Collection2.php?inum=34

Diffuse

http://cccorns.com/Collection2.php?inum=6

like Cheech sez, "All the same, but different"