First to pay or First to contact?

[AbsoluteApril]

An interesting discussion was going on in the BOI and it's a situation I've seen referenced many times so I thought it would make for some good discussion.

Who has 'first rights' to buy a snake?

As a seller - how do you prioritize? Is it the first person that contacts you or the first person that pays?

What about the situation where someone online wants to buy or has sent payment and then someone locally wants to buy and has cash on hand?

 

[AGoodwin]

I go with first to contact, within reason. If someone contacts me and says, I can pay you tomorrow, or on x date, as long as that is acceptable to me, I will hold for them. I myself would be upset if I called and made plans to purchase something and then it was sold to someone else, so I like to be as considerate as possible to others in that respect. Obviously if someone is either unsure of the purchase or cant pay for two weeks, then I would continue looking for other buyers in most cases.

 

[hhmoore]

I don't think it is always a black and white answer....or that one has to stand by the same policy in every situation (though some consistency certainly helps if an unhappy rejected buyer decides to complain).

A hobby breeder has a lot of flexibility with this decision, and can wait a couple weeks for payment if they choose...it's as simple as pulling the ad, and shrugging off the annoyance of people not completing the deal. What if said flexible hobbyist finds himself in need of money? First contact policy out the window, now it's first pay wins.

What if it's a brick and mortar shop that posted ads online? Face to face deal with a paying customer...or wait for the guy that has sent 3-4 emails? It's pretty hard to turn down the person standing there that wants to buy; and what if the seller does say, I'm sorry, but it's sold. It isn't necessarily a given that other interested parties will purchase after they have been turned away...and they have overhead that the hobbyist doesn't need to consider (at least to the same extent).

As a seller, I have exchanged multiple emails with prospective buyers, and declined sales while waiting for payment that has never arrived. I have also given up on prospective buyers and sold an animal...only to have the first person try to purchase after I've taken payment from somebody else. It's part of selling; and all we can do is try to handle these situations in the most professional manner possible.

As a buyer, I have committed to a purchase & been waiting for payment information that never came. When I contacted the seller the following day, I was told that I failed to make payment so he sold the snake. Yes, I was upset...and have not considered a purchase from that seller since. I understand his position.....but how was I supposed to pay when he didn't provide me with the means? Conversely, I have also committed to purchases by email, and been unable to make the phone call to pay by credit card for a few days (I hate phones, and am rarely available to make/receive calls during some people's normal business hours) Sometimes the sellers had waited, sometimes they hadn't. Business is business, no hard feelings there; but I definitely appreciated the ones that had waited for me (in most of those cases, there was an existing relationship...and they knew that I would complete the transaction).

But let's add a twist to this.
Is a seller required to sell to the first person that makes contact, or the first person that pays? What if a person sends an email, and immediately follows with a payment; so the seller comes online to find both...but doesn't want to sell to that buyer? Anybody have a problem with that (aside from the scorned buyer, that is)?

 

[rcarichter]

In most circumstances, I will change the post immediately to read "sale pending". We agree on payment time, say "right after work today". I tell them I'll hold the animal until, say, midnight. After that, the ad is changed to read back up for sale, and I notify the person as such. We are selling one-of-a-kind merchandise, and our success is entirely dependent upon healthy animals and happy customers.
As a buyer, I always assume that the animal is not mine until I pay for it.

Noelle

 

[Lucille]

If I say I'll hold, I'll hold. If payment or deposit is sent, even if an easier local buyer shows, I'd sell to the payer or person who gave a deposit.

But let's add a twist to this.
Is a seller required to sell to the first person that makes contact, or the first person that pays? What if a person sends an email, and immediately follows with a payment; so the seller comes online to find both...but doesn't want to sell to that buyer? Anybody have a problem with that (aside from the scorned buyer, that is)?

For me, it depends on the reason you refuse to sell. If you simply don't like the person, or don't think they care for their critters adequately, I don't think you have to sell.
On the other hand, if you don't want to sell to a person because, for example, they are Catholic, or Hispanic, or etc., (just an example, not directed at you Harald, I don't think you would do this) I think that is not an adequate reason to refuse sale.

I don't think it is always a black and white answer.

I agree with this to an extent, this situation has so many variables that it is difficult to come up with every possible permutation.
But I think if one has actually promised to hold a critter for a specified length of time until a buyer comes up with payment, one should do so. If one has taken a deposit, agreed to hold, one should hold. If one has agreed to sell and actually been paid, one should sell to that person.

 

[hhmoore]

I think if one has actually promised to hold a critter for a specified length of time until a buyer comes up with payment, one should do so. If one has taken a deposit, agreed to hold, one should hold. If one has agreed to sell and actually been paid, one should sell to that person.

One would think that the above would go without saying....but, sadly, it has been shown repeatedly that common sense and courtesy should not be taken for granted.

 

[Gary O]

I don't think it is always a black and white answer....or that one has to stand by the same policy in every situation (though some consistency certainly helps if an unhappy rejected buyer decides to complain).

A hobby breeder has a lot of flexibility with this decision, and can wait a couple weeks for payment if they choose...it's as simple as pulling the ad, and shrugging off the annoyance of people not completing the deal. What if said flexible hobbyist finds himself in need of money? First contact policy out the window, now it's first pay wins.

What if it's a brick and mortar shop that posted ads online? Face to face deal with a paying customer...or wait for the guy that has sent 3-4 emails? It's pretty hard to turn down the person standing there that wants to buy; and what if the seller does say, I'm sorry, but it's sold. It isn't necessarily a given that other interested parties will purchase after they have been turned away...and they have overhead that the hobbyist doesn't need to consider (at least to the same extent).

As a seller, I have exchanged multiple emails with prospective buyers, and declined sales while waiting for payment that has never arrived. I have also given up on prospective buyers and sold an animal...only to have the first person try to purchase after I've taken payment from somebody else. It's part of selling; and all we can do is try to handle these situations in the most professional manner possible.

As a buyer, I have committed to a purchase & been waiting for payment information that never came. When I contacted the seller the following day, I was told that I failed to make payment so he sold the snake. Yes, I was upset...and have not considered a purchase from that seller since. I understand his position.....but how was I supposed to pay when he didn't provide me with the means? Conversely, I have also committed to purchases by email, and been unable to make the phone call to pay by credit card for a few days (I hate phones, and am rarely available to make/receive calls during some people's normal business hours) Sometimes the sellers had waited, sometimes they hadn't. Business is business, no hard feelings there; but I definitely appreciated the ones that had waited for me (in most of those cases, there was an existing relationship...and they knew that I would complete the transaction).

But let's add a twist to this.
Is a seller required to sell to the first person that makes contact, or the first person that pays? What if a person sends an email, and immediately follows with a payment; so the seller comes online to find both...but doesn't want to sell to that buyer? Anybody have a problem with that (aside from the scorned buyer, that is)?

What he said lol....

 

[EricIvins]

The person who pays is the person that gets the animal. I run a Business, so everything is treated as a business decision. I may get 4,5,10+ E-mails a day with either general inquiries or "I'll buy it in a few days" on any one thing I'm selling........Factor in running 20+ adds on 3-10 different sites, forums, and Facebook Pages, so you can see where that becomes rediculous. At this point I would be belly up if I did so......

So the first confirmed buyer, is the first served buyer......My experience is that 60% of my E-mail volume is tire kicking at best. I don't mind general inquiries, specific questions, or people actually telling me their backing out of a deal. The la la la E-mails I get more than likely are deleted instead of replied to.......

 

[mxracer4life]

I feel the same as Harald. Its going to be a base by base decision on how to handle it. In most cases, I have been promised WAY to many times that payment is going to be sent and then never receive it. My rule of thumb is when they make contact, I let them know a deposit is needed to hold the animal. I am pretty flexible with time once a deposit has been made. But anyway, this is how I go about it.

 

[~Just Curious~]

Personally if I'm contacted by somebody else (Even a local with cash in hand) after getting an earlier inquiry, I will apologize to the new person and tell them that somebody already inquired beforehand/a sale is pending.
If it's real early in the first transaction (Like just a "Is it still available?" inquiry and then no reply afterwards) I'll often finish the message by asking the new party if they wish to be notified in case it falls through. If so then I will also let them know if things get finalized, that way they're not left hanging.

If the first person doesn't respond back then I'd send a few inquiries their way and eventually after a week or so (Again varies by how far we are into things, but this is all before payment or deposit) a warning that I'll be passing the sale on if they don't get back to me.

I try to be as accommodating as possible for folks, so I don't really have a policy set in stone...

 

[Willow]

As a hobbyist I agree with a lot of what is being said for both cases

I would be (and have been) more then willing to hold animals for extended periods of time for people without any form of payment in certain situations

I think most hobby breeders would agree that in certain situations you make exceptions for some people.

But I would wonder what everyone would expect in one of the situations Harald pointed out...

What if you run a retail reptile store. What if you have sent a few emails back and forth with someone about an animal you have in the store. They have not yet told you they WILL for sure send you anything money wise, they do seem very interested and you have told them your paypal email, but they are just asking general questions about the snake.

You log offline, unable to go back for a few hours because your store got busy. Someone calls in to your store (or even walks in!) and says I want to buy that animal, I can give you my CC number right now.

What do you do....

 

[Metachrosis]

Business or Hobby,CASH Talks
Tire kickers can just get all the butt hurt they need till they get over it.
Once a seller has responded to an intial inquiry its up to the purchaser to
pay up or move on.
No reason what so ever for 20 emails,4 Sale means "I want PAID!"

Entitlement is a disease in this country

 

[Willow]

Entitlement is a disease in this country

having been on both ends of the customer service world

I couldn't agree more

 

[~Just Curious~]

Well you'll never be able to please everyone~

I think that cash comes first with retail stores and I don't think there's anything "wrong" with that either, it really does make sense. They're pretty much all business, most of their websites even just have automatic checkouts.

What if you run a retail reptile store. What if you have sent a few emails back and forth with someone about an animal you have in the store. They have not yet told you they WILL for sure send you anything money wise, they do seem very interested and you have told them your paypal email, but they are just asking general questions about the snake.

You log offline, unable to go back for a few hours because your store got busy. Someone calls in to your store (or even walks in!) and says I want to buy that animal, I can give you my CC number right now.

What do you do....

*cheating* Personally I'd take two seconds to check my email/paypal account etc (It really doesn't take long and most stores have a computer right there on the counter. One store I know often has the cashier looking things up online for customers.) and if the money was there, I'd tell the customer "I'm very sorry, but it's already sold".
Otherwise if it's still not there, I'd sell it to the present customer and send an apology to the online buyer with an explanation quoting my ToS he should have already read. (Because if I actually was a store, you could bet I'd have a solid ToS.)

If I was to follow the rules of your scenario and really not be able to check my email for some reason, then I honestly would sell to the customer whose in my store. It really is too bad for the other guy, but I have a business to run... If I did need to refund the online buyer afterwards, I'd probably offer him something like store credit or a discount with an apology just to try and end things on a better note. Customer service is a big part of running a business and I'd want him to consider buying from me again. (I certainly wouldn't want him to go writing bad reviews everywhere)

Yeah isn't roleplaying fun? This is why I'm glad I don't have any big organization to run, I like having the liberty of being more flexible and I don't mind giving some folks the benefit of the doubt. Being a small scale hobbyist, I don't have as much riding on it. Lucky me I guess...?

 

[Ed Clark]

First to pay gets it,doesn't matter if it's local or across the country.

If you held every herp that someone says they will buy when they get money you will have to buy more racks or cages every month for all the herps you are holding for people that will never buy them.

You will certainly tick some people off but you will be selling and shipping,not holding.

 

[snowgyre]

I produce so few animals that this generally isn't a concern of mine. I generally get a feeler email from a potential buyer that asks pertinent questions about the animal for sale. I answer the questions and give them the price of shipping. If they're still interested in purchasing the animal, we agree upon a payment date and I hold the animal until that date. I always email the day before to check. If any other buyers contact me during this time I tell them that the animal is on hold until that date.

I can see why this method would be really time consuming for anyone with a larger collection, but considering I very rarely just blindly send a seller money for an animal without first trying to get more information on it, I do get annoyed when the seller and I have a dialog going and they sell to someone else. If I contact a seller they generally have payment within an hour once they reply to me... I don't mess around.

 

[Metachrosis]

Aaaah YES!! the old "PLUS SHIPPING" BS..!
Why cant folks just price an animal for sale and do the deal with out fluffing.
Nice round figures are to simple ? or is the entire simplicity of the concept
just to repulsive?

Walmart doesn't sell a bag of chips and charge you extra for the bag . . . . .

 

[lauraleellbp]

Aaaah YES!! the old "PLUS SHIPPING" BS..!
Why cant folks just price an animal for sale and do the deal with out fluffing.
Nice round figures are to simple ? or is the entire simplicity of the concept
just to repulsive?

Walmart doesn't sell a bag of chips and charge you extra for the bag . . . . .

Pricing can very GREATLY depending on locations, package sizes, and weights. I got shipping quotes from FedEx ranging anywhere from $35 to $90 last year, and that was just for small boxes containing geckos. That's a pretty big difference, and I can understand someone not wanting to eat $50 plus out of the cost of an animal just because a buyer may be on the West Coast vs the East Coast or vice versa. Shipping costs go up as weights go up- so if a buyer is getting multiple animals, that could easily double shipping costs as well.... So it's super hard to establish set "all inclusive" prices and not run the risk of losing your shorts, except perhaps on higher dollar animals, or for those big sellers that do enough volume that shippers give them a flat rate.

Most people generally only pass along what they're charged for shipping, occasionally adding in a few dollars for the cost of packaging materials. If you suspect someone is "fluffing" their quote, it's easy enough to look that up for yourself, all you need is their zip code.

And on the original subject- to me it all depends on communication.

As a seller, I may be willing to hold an animal based on a verbal committment, or I may require a deposit up front, depending on circumstances. However, how I communicate that to a buyer is the key IMO. If I accepted an offer and gave someone a verbal sale committment (said "OK, sold) then I'm not going to go back on that no matter how much money is waved in front of me.

As a buyer, I do not generally expect someone to hold an animal for me unless I put money down. However- if someone SAYS they're going to hold an animal for me, but then does not (outside extenuating circumstances), in my view that's someone who broke their word and I am very unlikely to ever do business with them again.