FIRSTBALLMORPHS - Joe Goodnough - BAD, BAD, BAD!

[Cat_72]

The concern about the potential for IBD infection is a valid one as it is one of the deadliest diseases of boids nowadays. Having said this, speculating that Joe’s snakes could be infected is IMO a tad extreme. Besides, planting the seed of the doubt not only affects Joe, but Christy as well, which is completely unfair to her. She came here to warn us all about her experience with some misrepresented snakes, and her name ends up associated with the possibility of her animals contracting IBD?

Suggestions such as this should not be taken lightly, as they may be a deciding factor on whether a person would buy or not from her in the future. Granted, we may not agree with her quarantine procedures, but what was she supposed to do? Inclusion body disease is a chronic ailment. It is very likely that an infected animal will not show symptoms for months or maybe even years. How many of you perform a liver biopsy or any other invasive test on a recently acquired ball python? If this is a standard operating procedure when incorporating a new animal to any of your collections your zeal should be applauded. If you don’t, how many months/years do you have the animal in quarantine to make sure he doesn’t show signs of the disease? We all agree that Joe handled this situation very badly. But the IBD speculation casts a shadow of doubt that can harm Christy’s image. She came here asking for help and to warn us. Is this the way we want to repay her?

Regards.

I apologize if that's the way I came off.....I was just addressing Tom's question of why it was even brought up. I am not in any way claiming to know that there is ANYTHING wrong with those snakes, they could very well be completely healthy, but it really concerns me that knowing the guy purposely ripped her off, who's to say what COULD be wrong with them, therefore it would gove me personally even more incentive to make certain they were quarantined. Whether it be mites (which CAN be missed, even on a close initial inspection) or something far worse.

I really wish Joe would at least explain his actions, or lack thereof. Does he just not CARE? To me, not even attempting to tell "his side of the story" is akin to "pleading the fifth" .....

 

[Christy Talbert]

Ralph, you were right about this place .

I made my post, honestly, not trying to make myself look perfect - just giving the what and why of the events as they unfolded between Joe and I. I realized when I decided to write the facts as they happened I would take some flack for the calculated risk I took with one female. To me, being honest was important so I was willing to handle the "why did you put it with one of your girls?" question. I didn't think it would turn into a witch hunt.

I was trying to deal with Joe in good faith and do what he asked of me as we figured out how "supposedly" to resolve our problem. Error on my part, probably, because I was trying to deal in good faith with someone who was not dealing in good faith with me.

Nevertheless, it is amazing to me how this thread has digressed. I deserve what I got and karma is paying me back? "Some people's kids?!?!" My collection now has IBD? The seller should not take the animal back because I followed his request? And now, some woman I don't even know is evidently having an emotional breakdown over my collection?!?! Truly amazing.

I came here for one reason - not really for help, but to warn people about someone who evidently would like to rip them off for thousands of dollars through re-selling my snake. I was honest in my post because I don't know any other way to be. I needed to tell the story, so I did.

But, many of you seem more interested in getting on my case - though I have never sold an unhealthy animal, and everyone with whom I have dealt has been delighted with the healthy, fat, well feeding animals they received from me. Yet, I am the bad guy? I guess I really don't get this forum.

I just hope this thread helps somebody - because it has been a major pain in the butt to me, just like Ralph said it would be. Actually, I know it has helped, because several have already emailed me saying so. I only wish someone had posted about Joe before me (I sure see why they didn't after this experience, though!)

As a final note on the whole quarantine rabbit trail:

The reality of the bp industry is people buy BREEDER MALE BP's during BREEDING SEASON because they intend to BREED THEM. Yep, I was one of those people, so shoot me. I think while we are at it we should be sure and denigrate all the breeders, big and small, who sell breeder males between August and March. After all, they are encouraging this terrible trend. They know the people want to buy their males and put them with girls before an extended quarantine period yet they offer them for sale anyway - HOW UNETHICAL!

My best to all of you...and I hope your blood pressure returns to normal sometime soon, Laura.

Christy

 

[screamdreams]

Okay, okay...enough is enough maybe it's not what we say but how it "reads" when we say it...

Although this might not be the case, I still think "shots" are being taken at Christy in regards to her decision on whether to quarantine the animal or not. Obviously practicing proper quarantine is essential when maintaining a collection, but I just don't feel we need to turn this thread into a husbandry issue.

Interesting, after 25 years one would figure you know better than just looking over a snake and being able to tell if it is sick or not.

I just don't think a 30 day quarantine, or even 60, would eliminate all probabilty of IBD showing up in an animal...you said it yourself...

IBD can be present without any symptoms for a very long time, but I am sure you already knew that.

I know, nobody really cares what I think but I'm gonna tell ya anyways Obvious signs of origin seem to be present in most cases I've experienced. IE: WC animals with scarring, scale rot, ticks, etc...sometimes it's obvious, and the ole' "rat bite" or "heat rock burn from previous owner" doesn't always ring true in some cases. I guess what I'm trying to say is there are OBVIOUS signs that warrant a minimum 30-60 day quarantine. It gives us substantial time to check for any Mite and/or Tick infestations, RI's, Infectious Stomatitis, Trichomoniasis, Amebiasis, etc...and in my opinion should be common practice with snakes of unknown history, however, I just feel that the need to quarantine an animal that I've purchased from say Mark & Kim Bell or BHB Ent. is without a doubt, a waste of time.

I don't care what anyone has rehabbed worked with ect. I would never, and I mean never introduce a newly acquired unknown history snake, to my breeders. End of discusion.

I agree wholeheartedly with the above statement...of course the key words being newly acquired/unknown history. However, the bottom line is, this isn't a husbandry issue - end of discussion. Christy did not get what she paid for, the animals were misrepresented, period. Something tells me that if each and every one of us asked ourselves if we have EVER been guilty of improper quarantine procedure most of us would say yes, the rest I'd say are lying.
Let's get back to the proven spider and the 1200 gram females shall we???

 

[Cat_72]

Christy, no one said your collection has IBD, in fact I apologized already in case that's what it sounded like I was saying. I also said, in an earlier post, that I was glad you DID post this, as I was looking at Joe's ad with some interest. The only reason I addressed the whole issue of your not quarantining them is that I didn't want you to have the misfortune of your snakes getting sick, you'd already gotten enough hassle from Joe that you didn't need any more. The fact that Joe DID rip you off is reason in my mind for you to be even more concerned. No, you aren't supposed to be "the bad guy" here...but just because you know some breeders take the chance of not quarantining doesn't mean that it's any more right. And I don't think ANYONE said that the seller shouldn't take the animals back, it was just discussed that if I were you, I wouldn't feel safe sending the animals back without receiving your money first.

Maybe you should ask Ralph if he quarantines new animals that he brings in?

 

[Cat_72]

Christy, have you gotten any replies from Joe as to what he's going to do about this yet?

 

[TomO]

Christy,
Thanks for the heads-up on this guy. You took some heat, but if your account is accurate you have probably prevented someone else from geting burned. I'm sure many of us do appreciate that.

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Just agreeing with the post above. Thanks for the heads up Christy

 

[Christy Talbert]

Cat, no replies from Joe yet. Evidently he has not been in an auto wreck or anything (glad you are ok, Joe), because he's enthusiastically answering emails from people who are interested in buying my/"his" snake.

My email has gotten quite interesting - not sure if TOS permits me to copy them here. I have the folks' permission to do so. If anyone has some feedback on whether I can copy emails from others to this board with the sender's permission, let me know.

Thanks, Christy

 

[Junkyard]

Christy, my postings are pretty harsh and I am well aware of it. I think it is a really important issue that many need to learn, I personally know of entire collections being lost to IBD. The posts are also for the learning of others who are new to the hobby and have no idea of the seriousness of the disease. It needs to be known. Yes Ralph, you knew this would happen, thank you.

Sorry you have been taken by Joe, knowing about him is good on my part as I will not be doing any business with him. For that I thank you for bringing him to the BOI. I think if anyone is willing to misrepresent an animal than that is just plain wrong and they should not be in this hobby.

Once the e-mails are sent to you, they are your's to post, just bleep out any foul language.

 

[Christy Talbert]

Interesting email:

Josh and Jen norwood of j&j reptiles give you Christy Talbert permission to post the private message we sent you in regards to joe goodenough.

Joe did it again!

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I was just reading your post on joe goodnough and thought it sounded all too familiar. He responded to a add we had on king snake about wanted adult female ball pythons, and a add we had for a adult pair of very nice ringers.After talking with him we made a deal for the pair of ringers and $475 cash to trade for 3 female balls he had. The females were said to be 2800 grams for the biggist one and the other 2 were between 1500-1900 grams.He didnt want to pay for shipping or ship first so we aggreed on him driving up here,[we are in maine he is in mass.]. Well the day came for him to be here it was 10/23/05. He pulled in to our door yard took out 3 ball pythons from him car with no pillow cases of heat, and left his car door open. Mind you there was snow on the ground. He comes in with the balls, one is very nice and fat we figured it was one of the 1700-1900 gram girls it was " his 2800 gram" female. We put her on our gram scale and it said 2000 grams [ give or take a few grams its been a while.] He immediately said "your scale does'nt work it must be off. So I grabbed a can of pepsi from the fridge and weighed it ,12 oz./336 grams dead on. We weighed the 2 other females the 1700-1900 gram females...600+ grams, 750 grams. Talk about a weight loss in 24 hours. We said no deal , we would take them to be nice but not for anything close to what he wanted. He then ran out to him car doors still wide open in the freezing cold and took out another ball python. 900 grams our weight 1500 his weight. It was a w.c. bush baby that had some scarrs on it but didnt look to bad. He said it was c.b and had scars on it because he kept it in a natural set us with the other females and his "500+ gram male spider " that he had . We gave him the ringers and $180 cash for all of them but that was before he said he wanted full price and threw a fit when he didnt get it. If he is going to do all this in person I cant immagine what he would do online.We passed it off a him just being to stupid to know what he was doing. If we can do anything to help you out in this situation let us know. sorry for such a long email but though you might want to know. Thanks j&j reptiles [email protected]

You can also post the following (also from Jnj):

He called here a few days ago on our home phone so after I emailed you I called him back. He answered the phone in a very nervouse manner, like he was pretending not to be himself. I asked if joe was there and he said "Who is this" again in a worrysome manner . After I told him who I was he was like yah hey. I told him I was just returning his call and he said he had forgetten why he called. Then oh yeah he said..."I was calling to see if you guys were still doing any balls because I am looking for some adult females to goi with my male spider, because he is huge.I told him no because we just sold all but one of our females and she is a very weird 2600 gram female that we are sending out on breeder lone. He said that was ok., he was just looking. So much for him not being around to respond to you. Let us know if we can help out anymore, feel free to give us a call @ [207]479-6658 for any more info on him that we may have, and if we can get some answers for you from him. Thanks again and hope you can post this for us. j&j reptiles [email protected]

 

[jnjreptile]

joes new email adderss

Just giving every one a heads up about this scammer. He just emailed us about some carpet pythons we have want adds for, and he has yet another email; address. It is :[email protected]
Buyer beware .

 

[Cat_72]

Christy, did you ever get anything solved with this guy?

 

[Christy Talbert]

Cat, nope, he has not contacted me in spite of repeated efforts on my part.