• Responding to email notices you receive.
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Fl.International Reptile Show?

I totally agree that the public perception of the reptile industry is under fire from all directions-the few burmese and niles that are in the everglades/cape coral, the few smuggled shipments and Lacey Act violations that recently came to light, the sensationalism of a few thousand reptile bites over that of a half million dog bites per year, and the old stereotypes that we are a bunch of criminal freaks.

However, with the help of the BOI, some truely professional breeders, and concerned and active hobbyists we will get through it all. However, online scammers, scumbags, and junk dealers can only be "run out of town" and an internal uproar is the only way to get them moving.


Thanks
ben cole
 
cocheta said:
ok your right! i should be thankful for the warning! But isnt there some way to keep things explained so that he new person isnt going "holy crap! why would i want to chance going to any show?"
Click to expand...


You shouldn't be reading this thread and saying "holy crap! why would I want to chance going to any show"? But you should give it some extra thought before participating in Tony's events no matter what side of the table you are on.

Just because one promoter is a :censored: scumbag ...doesn't mean they all are !
 
bcherps said:
To Cocheta, and Cowboyman.

I do understand how this looks, and I do understand that this may look childish from one side.

However this is a very important issue. I began having issues with Tony in 2002 during my first show in the south(I had been vending for 4 years on the east coast)! I had animals stolen on friday night after setup when tony and the security guard were to only ones inside! I tried to report on his behavior, unproffessionalism and the theft.

Since at that time Tony had a good name in the industry-I was the one who got "flamed" on this very site. Well, I went on my business gave Tony another try and accepted this was the way things were done here. Well, I have been dissappointed, accosted, and scammed by Tony since then on no less than 3 other occasions. It has taken four years for Tony to finally tick off most of the industry to the point we couldn't take it anymore. I am glad that I am not the only one now.

But if you guys think this is childish or should be kept out of public view I ask you one question:

How would you like it if you spend $1000 for a endcap to vend-showed up to a booth covered in coffee cups and cigarette butts-told there was no broom and it was your responsibility to pick it up, were then told you had to move to another spot so one of tony's friends could take your spot becuase it had a better vantage point, then told you hadn't paid for your tables and were only given a partial space, then had over 10k of animals stolen, then when you complained had tony threaten you? The have the show open over 2 hours late becuase tony didn't bother to show up, or becusae he told the fire marshall some four letter expletives.

If you think this is fine for a promoter to do to his vendors then I say to you cowboy man-go to every show and give your money to every scumbag promoter out there so he can continue to scam.

And when you start vending Cocheta and this happens to you-don't you think you should tell others and make it known so it doesn't happen to other people? Or keep it quite so the promoter can continue to sucker people?

The problem in florida is not TOO many shows, it is TOO many half-assed shows.

Thanks
ben cole
Click to expand...

I had decided to drop out of the conversation seeing as how this is a business forum and I'm not in the business. How i don't actually have any stake in the matter and cant relate with what yall have going on. But in response i don't believe i ever said it was fine for him to do anything.

Honestly i wished i had never gotten into this debate at all because i really don't care. I must of just been in mood that day. There is a reason i have been here a year with less than 50 posts. Alltough i have entertained the thought of breeding after a year of keeping a moderate collection of corns its just to much like work, with little time for my other hobbies.

So consider this what ever you want. I'm tapping out, i no longer care to debate this. I never said i supported either. I thought i made that clear but i guess not. So to avoid getting corralled into being seen as a supporter for either. :bolt01:
 
cowboyman13 said:
I had decided to drop out of the conversation seeing as how this is a business forum and I'm not in the business. How i don't actually have any stake in the matter and cant relate with what yall have going on. But in response i don't believe i ever said it was fine for him to do anything.

Honestly i wished i had never gotten into this debate at all because i really don't care. I must of just been in mood that day. There is a reason i have been here a year with less than 50 posts. Alltough i have entertained the thought of breeding after a year of keeping a moderate collection of corns its just to much like work, with little time for my other hobbies.

So consider this what ever you want. I'm tapping out, i no longer care to debate this. I never said i supported either. I thought i made that clear but i guess not. So to avoid getting corralled into being seen as a supporter for either. :bolt01:
Click to expand...

At least you have something in common with Tony...neither one of you care !
 
Honestly, I'm tired of getting all the emails regarding these posts.
Any one can tell me how to un-subsribe to this thread?
It has just turned into a Tony Bashing Thread. Nothing new is being said.
Seems the only people posting are the bashers, and no one is saying anything postive.
I myslef, only have done one of his shows, Last fall's Tampa Show. I seen nothing wrong with it. But then again, I wasn't running around trying to find wrong doings.
Just trying to sell Acrylics.
Not saying anyone has good points or bad points, just personally, I'm no longer interested in reading all the posts that pop up on this thread..........
 
Ron Billingsley said:
It has just turned into a Tony Bashing Thread. Nothing new is being said.
Seems the only people posting are the bashers, and no one is saying anything postive.
Click to expand...

The people posting are the people who got screwed by Tony.
There insint anything positive say. And if there is, I'm not stopping any one from posting it.
 
All this is really a shame. I remember years ago when I attended my first reptile show. It was in Raleigh NC & it was totally awesome. My husband & I held hands the whole time we were there, to keep from getting separated in the crowd. We were so envious of some of the vendors. We spent the day talking to breeders and had a great time. We signed up to vend the next show. Back then, Tony's shows were great. He had the building packed with vendors & attendees. He was so successful that he must have forgotten that the vendors are what make the show. For the past few years, I've watched his shows get smaller & smaller, even though he kept advertising them as huge. I think that if you want to compete for vendors, you should make sure your show is better than the rest. This keeps people coming back. Deliberately lying & sabotaging the other shows only makes vendors stay away.
 
Audry,
You bring up a really good point - the shows should be a venue for the breeders and dealers to sell their goods and a place for the attendees to have access to a large number of vendors at one location.

In my opinion, some of the shows have lost sight of this and have tried to produce an event instead. These productions are typically not good for the vendors who are the driving force behind the show.

Unfortunately, while the "Event" approach does put money in the promoters pocket through gate receipts, it does very little for the vendors. A large portion of the attendees end up being the "lets take the family to the zoo" crowd. The vendors end up entertaining the family for the day with little chance of actually selling anything.

I think that any promoter that wants long term success in this business, needs to really examine what they are trying to accomplish and change their recipe accordingly. There is a reason why Wayne Hill and The National Reptile Breeders Expo is at the top of the heap. The show is set up and advertised as a serious show. You will not find flyers for the Breeders Expo on your windshield at K-Mart.
 
We received a black & white flyer in the mail yesterday announcing an upcoming show. My husband pointed out to me that the flyer never changes. Same stuff, just different dates & location. He said that it was more like a traveling circus than a reptile show. People need a variety. It's like going to the flea market & seeing the same vendors every time. After a while, you get tired of wasting your time, money, & gas. Now there's nothing wrong with seeing the same vendors, but the kiddy sideshows are always the same. People bring their children in thinking that our snakes & lizards are part of the petting zoo. And clowns? Huh. It would be more fitting for him to dress up in a lizard costume. Reptile show or circus?
 
"Unfortunately, while the "Event" approach does put money in the promoters pocket through gate receipts, it does very little for the vendors. A large portion of the attendees end up being the "lets take the family to the zoo" crowd. The vendors end up entertaining the family for the day with little chance of actually selling anything."

Yes, yes!! I have noticed in those types of events that I spend more time telling people that the corns are not venomous, and yes, they really can breathe in those deli cups, compared to explaining what type of morph they are and which one they should buy! It really does get tiresome. I could re-answer those questions all day long if properly compensated. But revenues have gone down for each show, while expenses have gone up. We have to look at each show with an eye to what the bottom line is likely to be.

The "event" type of show is great family entertainment, and may even educate a few members of the public to where they will consider entering the hobby. But I can't afford to help out for free (or almost free) - there has to be enough financial compensation to make it worthwhile to participate. Or, it has to be so much FUN that I would do it for free, lol!
 
I know what you mean. There is a lot of hard work involved with breeding. Whether it be snakes, lizards, or something else. It's horrible when you have to sell half your offspring just to make your vendor expenses back. And that's not even compensating ourselves for all the labor & expenses we've put in to our animals.
 
Personally, I prefer to vend at and attend the hard core herp shows, minus petting zoos, animal farms, parrot shows and such. But that's ME. Now, with my little girl, I'd end upgoing to one of those myself, and wait to go to the "Event" show with my wife and daughter.

There is not only room for both types, I think the hobby benifits form both types. The vendors, of course, sell more, faster, and smoother, at the no-frills shows. They should be the most common ones. They draw mostly hobbyists, who will buy, and are already educated, at least to a degree. They also draw in interested people, who are looking for somethign.

The event shows draw in everyone, including the big spenders and serious hobbyists, but also the curious and the young. I've seen lots of people become introduced to the hobby at Tony and Alex's shows over the past decade. The market in Raleigh has grown considerably, with a lot of thanks to the shows for bringing in new people.

I've been at both types of shows over the years. As a vendor at the event shows, you do a LOT of repeatign the same stupid things, over and OVER and OVER again. I can see how it gets annoying, but don't take it personally - how did YOU learn? They have to ask questions and read up. By talkign to you, they're taking a good step.

I admit, I have a very strong interest in education. I especially enjoy speaking to people who are curious and genuienly interested, no matter how ignorant they are. You get to inform them, that's one of the most enjoyable aspects of the hobby. I'll be setting up a table in Raleigh with only a couple cages to sell - and I dont' even care if I do sell them, I'll be there with my chameleons (some of the most complicated, and difficult to talk about aniamls) just to talk to people about them.

big event shows definatly have their place. You would be mistaken to use big, overblown, "Event" circus shows as a way of criticizing Tony. Instead, it's the execution and the FOCUS of these shows that's been a problem for him. Tony, for a number of reasons (not good ones), convinced himself that the way to draw bigger numbers was to incease the fluff:

They will pay to be at a reptile show on the site of a casino (yeah, I know, I know...), they will rather see snakebabe than Roark, an informational speaker/performer, they will come because of door prizes, they will come because of contests, boat trips and bird shows and costume parties...

Somehow, Tony was able to convince himself that all that was going to bring in more people than having more vendors. If Tony had just not pissed them off, and actually tried to court NEW vendors, he might be in this situation.

That's why tony's circus shows went downhill - because it became a freaking circus with reptiles for sale, rather than a reptile show with circus-stuff for the kids OF reptile keepers.
 
This may or may not belong here, but since it is about comments made on this topic I felt it belongs here.

Ok, I have been receiving private emails to “stop harassing” people.
I thought this was an open forum where you can freely speak your mind? (Within reason, and I don’t think I have been unreasonable in any post I have made)

When someone gets involved in an on going thread and then decides they don’t want to be involved in it any longer, but in the process makes a few last comments. He/she should be ready to receive a rebuttal or what have you.

I don’t know about anyone else, but when I hear people say they “just don’t care” it bugs me …people should care about this industry if they want to continue to enjoy it freely. Both vendors and non-vendors need to care more about it before there’s nothing left of it.

So excuse the hell out of me if I decide to make a comparison of two people who “just don’t care” It wasn’t an attack, just me speaking my mind.
I’m not going to apologize for any comments I make unless I have the facts wrong. I read and re-read my comments before I post them.

If me comparing two people who “don’t care” is harassment, tell me why there are several threads still ongoing about Tony? Post after post exposing a promoter’s disgraceful ethics in this industry (who obviously doesn’t care about it – just his pocket). And here we have another who doesn’t care, but when I compared the two it was “harassment”! ! !


cowboyman13 if you are going to make comments such as you “just don’t care” then you should be willing to handle any response to it , whether it be good or bad. I know that I leave myself open to whatever may come my way after I make any posts on any forum. If I don’t want to deal with it I don’t get involved at all.

If these forums are going to be biased, and people are going to make comments and then be offended when they read something they don’t like, then I will no participate in this site in any way at all.
 
That was very well written. I also leave myself open because I post my opinions. I also get harrassed, but after today many will find out some disturbing facts about the promoter we had been discussing. And people who don't care about unethical practices in our business, should stay out of our industry. I do care. And it's not the money, but the love for the reptiles.
 
Jim & Audry

You guys have done nothing wrong,And from where I am sitting You guys are whats good about this biz.Keep up the good fight!And don't fret the cowboy,He's just not informed.We all open are yaps before accually knowing what its is we are talking about sometimes?
 
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