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Flipping....the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Flipping right or wrong?

  • It is ok for anyone to sell animals they didn't produce and who cares where it came from.

    Votes: 12 11.9%

  • Flipping is ok when the info is disclosed on where the animals came from.

    Votes: 68 67.3%

  • Flipping should be left to actual stores and legit resellers.

    Votes: 21 20.8%
  • Total voters
    101
After reading the OP I chose option 2. I would add to that a caveat that the animals you "flip" should be in your control long enough to ensure health before you sell them off.

But then I guess that is not considered flipping in the common use.

OT but I grew up in TR. Can't say I miss it, although I am there from time to time on business. Too busy there...
 
Toms River....too busy, lol? I thought it was a little slow paced down here when I moved from Woodbridge.

I never would have thought anyone would actually flip an animal from a pet shop.
 
HA! I bet you would feel that way!

I agree on the pet shop flipping too...some people can sell ice cube makers to Eskimos too though.

Personally I define flipping as anyone who tries to move animals like a day trader moves stocks. If you get concerned every day that animal has to be housed and fed because it is eating into your profit you are a flipper, whether you are honest about it or not.

I kind of do have a bad feeling about flipping. As others mentioned the additional stress and lack of care...I am a hobbyist and rely on sales to ease my personal burden, as opposed to earning a living, so perhaps I feel more for the animals than some people do. To me they are always animals and never $.

What you proposed, buying a group to get a few specific animals at a discount and reselling the rest...again if you make sure they are healthy, why not? Or if say, you and a couple of others go in on a group together...but I guess that is completely different.
 
I generally keep a 3 month rule.
I keep it in my collection for at least 3 months, preferably 6. That way I know it is free of any problems, and can then either be introduced to my general population, or put back up for sale.
When selling an animal that I didn't produce, I try to include as much info as I can, since I can't say what has happened it's WHOLE life.
I have seen people at the shows that buy an animal off of a table and put it up immediately on their table at a higher price. To me.. that is just being a garbage disposal. Whether it came from a reliable breeder or not, when you sell that animal, even if you only bought it a few minutes before, if something happens to it, or is wrong with it, it now falls on YOU. I guess it's all a matter of how much one cares about their reputation and taking chances with luck.
 
Honestly i dont care about flipping.... to each their own. I just dont feel right about telling people what they should do if its not hurting anyone or anything.... then again i catch and release fish and if the fish is big enough i mount em so i guess im hurting the fish just to mount on a wall??? Guess that makes me a hypocrite but doesnt mean i should tell someone else what they have to do. IMO if ya do then ur a drama queen.
 
irishanaconda said:
Honestly i dont care about flipping.... to each their own. I just dont feel right about telling people what they should do if its not hurting anyone or anything.... then again i catch and release fish and if the fish is big enough i mount em so i guess im hurting the fish just to mount on a wall??? Guess that makes me a hypocrite but doesnt mean i should tell someone else what they have to do. IMO if ya do then ur a drama queen.
Click to expand...

I think you're missing the essence of the thread...

Animals are "hurt" because they are subject to moving from place to place without time to adjust. Quarantine is usually not practiced, thus exposure to contagious pathogens. Some are not fed on a regular schedule because feeding means money out of the flippers profits.

People are "hurt" because some flippers do not disclose where the animal came from and guarantees can not be made on genetics and health. Due to the treatment of the animals, they are not always the healthiest.

These of course are just generalized examples, not all cases of flippers are the same.
 
I say as long as you take care of the animal properly in the mean time why should it matter. I also think that in many cases your price needs to reflect the amount of information you can provide and verify about the animal. You shouldn't ask top dollar for a very pretty animal that as far as you know is just a pretty normal when you don't have any information to say it's anything other than that.
 
thats whats great about this place, you can find out who is doing what (for the most part), and base your decision to purchase on the info you find here. personnaly i would never buy from a flipper as i would much rather get it direct from a breeder who cares and takes personal pride in what they produce and sell. besides, why pay more to someone who is just in it for the money when you can help support a breeder/hobbyist
 
It kind of depends on what you consider to be a flipper as well, I would bet that everyone of us just about has bought an animal or got one in on a group trade that we didn't really need or later decided we didn't have room for and then sell it which is essential flipping but is that what we're talking about here. I've bought reptiles from local classified ads usually from people who have no idea how to care for the animals and let them go very cheap and some times I end up selling them and some times I don't. If I tell the person I won't sell it then I stick to my word but if no such arrangement is made then it is my right to do with it as I please. As for the animals moving from one home to another as long as it is done quickly and properly I don't really think animal cares. I'm not saying they should be shipped multiple times in a matter of weeks but a couple of times in their life I don't think makes any difference to them as long as they are set up properly when they get where they're going.
But if when you say "flipping" you're referring to someone who intentionally buys animals they can not properly house and have no clue as to how to properly care for simply for the purpose of moving them quickly for a profit then yes I would definitely say I think it's unethical. I believe thats what most of us are thinking of when we say flipping but the deffiniton is not that black and white is it?
 
I see no problem with buying other animals to re-sell AS LONG AS they are appropriately quarrentined, are known to be feeding well, and NOT represented as "I bred them myself!"

Someone that scoops up animals on Craigslist (or from other breeders!), then tries to resell them two days later as "I produced this clutch of [whatever]!"? On my Do-Not-Buy list, for good. No matter how much they've got something I want.

Someone that buys a lot of animals from someone, quarrentines them for whatever appropriate period is for that species (at LEAST a month, no exceptions!), pulls any non-eating/non-thriving animals, then re-sells them? Even if they don't *explicitely* mark them as "I bought them from someone else", as long as they don't try to claim they're the producers? Even if the lot was intentionally, specifically bought for re-sale? I really have no problem buying from them.

I "flip" on the very small scale regarding cresties. As in, I'll buy juvies from other breeders (or yes, even Petco) that I intend to grow out and see how they look as adults. Now, I buy them with the intent to keep them in my own colonies. But if they don't grow out as expected (especially with reds and dalmatians), or are the wrong gender for a project (grr stupid male-heavy species).

NOTHING leaves my house without at least a month's quarrentine (usually 2 or more, since I'm keeping them to grow out, anyways.) Personally, I color-code my tubs at shows, with a key on the table. One color dot says "I produced this animal myself", a second "I did not produce it, known breeder/parentage", and a third "did not produce/no genetic info".
 
I don't have too much of a problem with it when the proper info is disclosed. I've done it myself. I've taken in trades and such in lieu of payment and even disclosed to the person that I am going to resell it, but I have never claimed them as my own. I do, however, have a major problem with fake breeders who buy animals really cheap on CL or wherever and in turn double the price and claim them to be thier own. We've been dealing with a guy like that around here. We unfortunately traded a gorgeous spider ball (produced by Mike Schofield) to him before we knew what he was. I've seen it up for grabs on CL and here on Fauna. I won't name any names, but he does this a lot here in NE Ohio and lots of people know who he is and what he does, although he talks a big game and brags about being a major breeder. He for sure will never get his greedy hands on any animal I ever produce.
 
dheideman said:
I see no problem with buying other animals to re-sell AS LONG AS they are appropriately quarrentined, are known to be feeding well, and NOT represented as "I bred them myself!"

Someone that scoops up animals on Craigslist (or from other breeders!), then tries to resell them two days later as "I produced this clutch of [whatever]!"? On my Do-Not-Buy list, for good. No matter how much they've got something I want.

Someone that buys a lot of animals from someone, quarrentines them for whatever appropriate period is for that species (at LEAST a month, no exceptions!), pulls any non-eating/non-thriving animals, then re-sells them? Even if they don't *explicitely* mark them as "I bought them from someone else", as long as they don't try to claim they're the producers? Even if the lot was intentionally, specifically bought for re-sale? I really have no problem buying from them.

I "flip" on the very small scale regarding cresties. As in, I'll buy juvies from other breeders (or yes, even Petco) that I intend to grow out and see how they look as adults. Now, I buy them with the intent to keep them in my own colonies. But if they don't grow out as expected (especially with reds and dalmatians), or are the wrong gender for a project (grr stupid male-heavy species).

NOTHING leaves my house without at least a month's quarrentine (usually 2 or more, since I'm keeping them to grow out, anyways.) Personally, I color-code my tubs at shows, with a key on the table. One color dot says "I produced this animal myself", a second "I did not produce it, known breeder/parentage", and a third "did not produce/no genetic info".
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

Good post. I forgot to add that about quarantine. I will not sell someone a sick animal to "make it someone else's problem". I've seen that happen a lot too!
 
It's the lack of quarantine that disturbs me the most about flipping. I'm sure there are a few out there that practice better procedures then that, but I haven't met a one. Usually the animal is up for sale within a few days of arrival. That speaks highly to me of someone that's about the money, and not about the animals well being. I'd much rather pay a higher price for an animal that I know was cared for properly.

I picked option B because that one seemed to fit my feelings the best out of the three.
 
People who buy whole collections and then put them up for sale as soon as they get them are the people I have a problem with. First of all, they are only doing it for the money and buying from them is not supporting a fellow herper. Secondly is the animals they sell are definately going to be stressed being shipped from door to door to door and going from one environment to another. I don't care what they say about loving the hobby, they are just in it for the money and that is why most of them don't last that long in this business.
 
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