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Info Floridaherps.com Copyright infringement - I found my photo their website

I read your last post referencing mine and I really was ready to let it go until I read this, where apparently you can't let it go.

All I can really say in responce to this is thank you for disagreeing with me in a mature, polite manner unlike someone else...
Demanding someone tell you "Straight out" and " be a man"
( implying that they're not being one) is immature and investigative, no tow ways about it.


Blah, blah, blah, you're on the wrong side of this and now you're going to play the martyr and then talk about "lynching" ( what could be more dramatic than that) and in the same breath criticize the "drama" of the members posting about what a poor business practice stealing pictures is, no drama...(except what you've managed to insert.)

Fourth time I've posted and third time you've ignored this question:

Please explain why these other people that have had their pictures stolen don't deserve to know about it?
 
Then the job she set out to do would have been done... The photos would be removed... Same effect, less drama...

I think threads like this turn into a few people just looking to lynch someone and they have very little interest in what is right...

This thread has also brought light to OTHER herp keepers that their photos have been stolen. Copyright infringement when selling animals is kind of ridiculous. Why post a picture of an animal you are selling that is not even in your possession?

As a buyer, that says to me that you aren't proud of the animals you have that you are selling, and that you're lazy. So lazy to not be able to snap a quick picture and put on a website. Two things I never want to deal with in a seller.
 
Right now there is a company infinging on my utility patent... Do you see a BOI thread about it???

Your excuse for arguments gets weaker when you say stuff like this. The website was a place that users of this forum would acess or have their photos on. You utility patent has no meaning to us at this level. Flherps is a ace for potential buyers.

Also if you own a website you should know the laws. They teach it in most schools now it's that important.

What are your thoughts on usig others photos to represent their own stock?
 
I believe this thread is EXACTLY why there is a BOI on this forum. A forum which some people request advice from other people. That's kind of the whole concept of a forum isn't it? I'm very glad that this was posted as I'm sure a lot of other people are.
This thread that you say should not be on the BOI may have saved me or someone else from being ripped of by a scammer who represents their animals with stolen pictures. I for one will NEVER do any business with this company and thank the OP for bringing light to the theft!
 
Gregg Madden;) I am not an idiot... Boosting a car and using a photo that was found on the internet are two totally diffent things so [/QUOTE said:
Yeah one is a federal crime the other is a state crime. You keep acting like it is no big deal to steal someone else's intellectual property even after you admitted that someone was infringing on your own. Ask some of the larger well known photographers what they do when someone steals their photos. Copyright suits are expensive on both ends and though the plaintiff often recovers their expenses time is hard to put a price on so suits are rarely followed through on but that makes the theft no less illegal. Criticize the OP's order of notification all you want it makes the theft no less wrong and it notified the community of the business' actions which in turn notified others here their property had been stolen as well. So yes I think this thread belongs on the BOI.
 
Gregg, it appears to me that you are the only one on her out to stir the pot enough to conjure up drama.

First off, this is an info thread, it is not a Bad Guy nor a Good Guy thread. People who read it can make their own informed (with the help of this thread) opinion on Florida Herps and anyone affiliated or associated with them.

Second, you seem to be missing the actual point as to why stealing other people's photos for the sole purpose of making money is wrong. These people are taking photos that they never took, do not own, have no rights to (as fun as it would be to take a dog's approach to owning things, that is not how it works in the adult world) and are using them to advertise animals they are selling. They are not making it a point to tell anyone that the photos offered are merely a general representation of the animal and not the actual animal the are getting. In fact, there is no mention at all that the animals listed are not what they have on site unless it states "Out of Stock", in which case, the assumption that that very animal is no longer in stock could be made. However, because they are flippers, resellers, whatever you want to call them, they have so many animals moving in and out they do not take pictures of any of them.

That alone is highly suspect, really.

You run a high volume business where you "hand pick" animals from select breeders in one state, essentially showing that you collect only the best of the best, yet you cannot provide pictures of them? You have no camera and no time to do so? Really? Also, most of the stolen photos have hands in them, as if someone there is actually holding them as to further validate that particular animal in their facility and ready to be shipped to a customer willing to pay.

This is poor business ethics, through and through. Many of the larger resellers in the industry who have a good reputation either just have a list of animals available without photos or a generic photo that they state is a generic photo. They also use the descriptions in the plural form to let you know there is more than one. These people do not do this. They have purposefully set up their inventory as if the one and only one they have is, in fact, depicted in that photo.

Last, I do agree that the stolen care scenairo is a poor example, but how about I give you this one? You write a paper for class, for pleasure, for whatever reason ... you never have any intention of really doing anything with said paper, but one day, someone finds it, reads it and publishes it under their name. They then make a nice profit off of a paper you created and you get nothing from it. What then? I could easily go your route of "a paper is not that hard to create" because, for me, it is not. So, what would you do then? Is it wrong then? Is it your fault for having that paper somewhere where someone was able to get their hands on it? I wonder.

They are using those photos for profit, for advertisement, to make themselves look better. The community has every right to know this so they can judge for themselves if they wish to do business with these people.

The reason so many poor businessmen, scammers and con artists get away with things is because people will often not open their mouths to tell people about it until it is too late or never at all. If you prefer to sit in a little bubble and not deal with it, then do not read the thread. Or at least deal with the fact people may not agree with you and that fact alone is not what makes them out to find drama.
 
This thread is out of hand to follow up on, but I feel important to throw in my 2 cents:

1) A GOOD photo IS hard to take and in modern days requires pre and post-processing, expensive equipment, etc. Doesn't mean every photo is such, but photographers make a living for a reason.

2) Taking a photo and using it in a COMMERCIAL, BUSINESS aspect without the original authors permission is obviously wrong. If you "didn't know" you obviously do know by now. Furthermore, ignorance is no excuse of the law, which leads to...

3) It is illegal. Period. They don't have to ask you to remove it after the fact. It is YOU who needs to do the due diligence and make sure you have a right to use it.

4) After this thread is at this size, any argument of ignorance/accident/etc is absolutely inexcusable. (Although such arguments don't hold much water before this point, they certainly have nothing after the fact). At this point, you better make sure you have the right to every single photo you use in any way.

5) I agree in some sense this has become a BOI issue. It speaks of your person. I don't care if your animals are your own and your pictures are not; obviously your animals are not good enough to warrant putting up your own pictures. Furthermore, it simply shows you are a deceptive person in general. Not to mention, the law distinguishes "crimes of moral terpitude" for a reason...
 
You all seem to be missing my original point... As I have said numerous times in this thread, I agree that it is wrong to use the photos.. I have stated this numerous time... I was just pointing out that it was wrong, in my opinion, that the OP made this BOI thread before contacting the offender...

After I stated my opinion, I got jumped on... I have not disrespected anyone nor have I tried to make anyone look like a fool... I simply stated my opinion on how it was handled from the start...

Now, if you want to enlighten someone on copywrite laws talk to Florida Herps about it, not me... I know the laws and I do not use others photos... Again, I was just stating my opinion on how this was handled from the start... Nothing more, nothing less... I was not taking a side...
 
I agree that the thread should have been made AFTER the OP contacted the owners of the site, but regardless, this thread SHOULD have been made as it has helped other keepers whose pictures HAVE been stolen notify the site owner that they're in violation of copyright laws.
 
I think, gregg, you seem to be forgetting that besides the inherent problems with stealing photos, they are using photos they didn't take to advertise their animals. And they do not state that the photo is not of one of their animals. To me that's misrepresentation. Who knows, maybe all their stock are neglected looking imports yet you see the photo of a healthy captive bred and think that's what you are getting.
I would certainly want to know if someone did this before I bought from them. It would change my mind.

Both the issue of taking copyrighted material and the issue of posting photos of animals they do not own warrant an info thread. The tone has become "bad guy" because of the responses of the organization, and I don't really care if the thread "provoked" them into being unprofessional - they are still very unprofessional and aren't just taking down the photos like they should. If you disagree that's that I guess, but I'm really not sure why you wouldn't want to be able to find out about these issues before buying from someone.
 
I commend Gregg for stating his opinion even though he probably knew he would catch some grief and keeping this thread at the top of the boi where I think it belongs.
Tom Rech
 
Hm a bit unprofessional of the company, but enough already people get a life, 10 pages of this omg.

The company stole photos from morte than one source, they didn't just tiptoe over the line, they flung themselves over with greedy abandon and saved themselves (up to now) some cash on advertising photos.

They gave snarky 'you can't catch me' answers

I would not do business with these people. They've stolen. And not owned up to their misdeeds, and more, snarked to where I would never even consider buying from them. If they steal with such impunity, what would they do in other business transactions? I wouldn't want to find out.

10 pages of outrage is less than this deserves. Hopefully, potential customers will look at this thread and then make the good choice to go elsewhere.
 
The company stole photos from morte than one source, they didn't just tiptoe over the line, they flung themselves over with greedy abandon and saved themselves (up to now) some cash on advertising photos.

They gave snarky 'you can't catch me' answers

I would not do business with these people. They've stolen. And not owned up to their misdeeds, and more, snarked to where I would never even consider buying from them. If they steal with such impunity, what would they do in other business transactions? I wouldn't want to find out.

10 pages of outrage is less than this deserves. Hopefully, potential customers will look at this thread and then make the good choice to go elsewhere.

:iagree: completely.

I am blown away that people are not completely outraged by this!:shrug01:
 
Gregg,

This thread was started as an info thread and the tone turned into a bad guy thread because of the response Florida Herps gave when they were caught red handed. You're welcome to your opinion that this didn't warrant a post on the Chameleon Forums (http://www.chameleonforums.com/copyright-i-found-my-photo-somebody-elses-website-56811) or here on the BOI, but the bottom line is that this company broke the law and stole from multiple people, this is a direct reflection of how they conduct their business and this thread absolutely belongs here!

As for whether or not this was simply a mistake, I think their emails make it clear that they are doing this consciously. Personally, I'm curious as to whether or not they obtained permission to use the two Senegal Chameleon photos they replaced the two I emailed them about with, particularly after being made aware of the fact that photos can not be used without permission unless the photos are expressly posted with such permission. These two new photos can easily be found on flickr simply by searching "Senegal Chameleon" and they clearly state "© All Rights Reserved" in their license information.

Finally, while every once in a while you can take a reasonable photo without much effort, a lot of people take photography more seriously than you obviously do and put more effort into their work. Just because you don't care, don't make any effort to take good photos and have still managed to take "a photo or 3" that were worth someone taking, doesn't mean that others don't care about their work and don't make more effort than you. Florida Herps stole copyrighted photographs without permission or credit, misrepresented their product with other people's animals and proceeded to belittle the owner of the photos when they were asked to remove them, making it clear in the process that this was a reasonable example of their ethics. They broke the law and it is completely warranted to expose their choices and behavior on the BOI.

Chris
 

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Floridaherps.com is obviously a somewhat shady company... Have people been ripped off for cash or animals? I dont know, but it is easy enough to either get a camera or ask permission to use peoples photos...

But, I dont see what is so unnaceptable about Gregs opinion. He thinks the company should have been contacted first! Big deal! So now hes the bad guy? Not every person has to agree with what is posted to the point of attack. I PERSONALLY think any person that has animals for sell, should take their own photos. But I PERSONALLY, never understood why people get so bent out of shape. I PERSONALLY dont really care about my photos once they are posted publically. I didnt know that photos were so hard to take (even the one that won a contest), and if were talking professionals, I didnt know they had such a hard time with shots and post production. To compare it to a stolen car is completely ridiculous, unless you can get in your original file and drive it to work... I dont think that happens. Really comparing a publically posted photo to a stolen car..... Wow!:ack2:
 
What I'm not understanding is why it is so important to have contacted Floridaherps.com before posting a thread here on the BOI. Hindsight is 20/20 and Floridaherps.com email responses have more than warranted this thread. I would never trust buying anything from them because of their fraudulent business practices.
Would anyone here trust sending them a couple of thousand dollars for a few het balls? There is no way I would now because if they're deceiving customers with stolen pictures that are being used to represent their own, what other kinds of deceitful practices do they use?
So, can someone give a good reason why the OP should have contacted Floridaherps before posting on a forum first?
 
Whoops, I posted my response without seeing page 3, I think. Sorry to have repeated what others had already said!

But I agree with catfish, etc. I don't see why it's particularly important for the OP to have privately contacted the company first for this issue. Either way the animals were misrepresented. Even if they took down the OP's photos who's to say the other photos aren't just taken from other people without permission?
 
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