Bad Guy Fluker Farms AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE! Filthy

[Alexandrina]

I am furious with Flukers and now consider them to be an unethical business. IMO, they should be shut down. I am going to contact the authorities and find out if the health dept , agriculture dept , or whoever might oversee businesses like this should be pressed in to conducting an investigation. Someone told me that shipping pest species over state lines is a federal offense. ( I have no idea whether that's true, but if it is, I hope they get nailed.) From the way they responded to me it is obvious they know they have an issue and they don't care.

I believe the larvae are Dermestes maculatus. I am not an expert but the pattern on the larvae looks more like this species than lard beetles. If they are maculatus it means Flukers has a filthy warehouse and the beetles are feeding on massive amounts of dead crickets. If you decide to order from them, you may get a high DOA level if the crickets are diseased. You'll probably also get mites and who knows what else if their warehouse is filthy enough to support this infestation level of flesh eating beetles.

If they had responded differently and assured me that they take the issue seriously and would do an in-house inspection and cleaning, I would have given them the benefit of a doubt and dropped this issue. Raising feeders is probably a pretty dirty business, and we all expect to find a few unwanted *buddies* in our shipments, but if they are this infested, they have a serious problem. It is obvious to me now that Flukers doesn't care about cleanliness or their customers.

Once they told me to find another supplier I knew they are aware of what they are doing and don't give a crap. I now think they are a horrible company that needs to be avoided. If they are this unconcerned about shipping flesh eating beetles they are not only ripping customers off, they are endangering our health and the environment. It may also be mail fraud.

Here are the emails that transpired between us. (I have removed my email address and other personal data like my home address. ) When I told them that if they sent more pests I would have a responsibility to warn others, they passive aggressively told me to f-off, and claimed they will issue a refund. I have yet to get notified of any refund.

My first email was sent to their website's customer service. I attached a photo showing the infestation. I will add it at the bottom so you can see we aren't talking about a few larvae here, we're talking about a shipment that had more beetle larvae than crickets in it. I didn't count them but I estimate there were over a thousand by the looks of it.


Here are the emails...
__________________________________________________ _____________________________




I am very displeased with my recent order. First of all, more than half the crickets were dead, secondly there were no where near 3000, more like 1000, and thirdly there were more of these strange larvae than there were crickets! The order was badly infested. I am attaching a picture of the entire order after I placed it in a deli cup, it was only a couple inches deep in a fruit fly culture sized cup, that couldn't possibly be 3000 crickets, even at 1/4 inch size. Notice the amount of weird beetle larvae infesting the order.

I am shocked at the level of infestation. I expect a few random weird bugs with feeders but this is crazy.

What are these larvae and will they infest my house?


P2100320.JPG P2100320.JPG
3000K View Download
Help Desk [email protected]

Feb 13 (4 days ago)

to me

These are feeder bugs that get into the feed. I see that you had a lot of them, if you give me your order number, I will replace this order at no charge, and I will report this to the supervisor.

Thanks,

Jackie

Fluker Farms





From: Rayven
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 11:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: infested order


Feb 13 (3 days ago)

to Help
Your order number is: *****
Date of order: 2/8/2012 4:16 PM



I have determined that they are a species of Dermestidae. They are a pest species and can infest houses and cause problems. With infestation levels as high as your company seems to have, I do not believe you are unaware of what these are. The fact that you did not tell me what species they are leads me to believe you are purposely trying to hide that information.

If my replacement order contains any of these pests I may report you to the health department or whatever the appropriate organization is. If a company has an infestation but takes it seriously and makes sure no pests ship out with orders I wouldn't care, but if you are shipping pests out with orders and don't care, I have a responsibility to warn others.
Help Desk [email protected]

Feb 13 (3 days ago)

to me

Sandra,

I will be refunding that back to your credit. It may be best if you find another supplier.

Jackie

Fluker Farms


__________________________________________

 

[snowgyre]

I'm sorry for your bad experience.

You're right, the larvae are that of the dermestid beetle, which are often included in cricket shipments because they only eat dead tissue. We use them to clean off skeletons in vertebrate collections. Yes, there are a lot of them there, but they should cause no harm to living crickets and aren't necessarily an indication of filthy conditions at Fluker Farms. For all you know the crickets may have just been watered (I use moistened paper towels to attract crickets), and this also attracts the dermestids. Whoever packaged your crickets should've not been so careless to include that many dermestids in with your shipment but their presence doesn't necessarily imply anything bad other than carelessness.

Tusla, Oklahoma had freezing overnight temperatures over the weekend you received your crickets as well (lows of 17 and 18 on Saturday and Sunday night). I think Fluker made a couple of mistakes here. One, they shipped over a cold weekend, and two, they put too many dermestids in your order. Otherwise, I think they did alright giving you a refund, they certainly didn't order from you. However, I think you may have gotten a little too upset over what was probably a couple honest mistakes.

 

[snowgyre]

"Didn't ARGUE" with you. Sorry for the typo.

 

[Alexandrina]

I'm sorry for your bad experience.

You're right, the larvae are that of the dermestid beetle, which are often included in cricket shipments because they only eat dead tissue. We use them to clean off skeletons in vertebrate collections. Yes, there are a lot of them there, but they should cause no harm to living crickets and aren't necessarily an indication of filthy conditions at Fluker Farms. For all you know the crickets may have just been watered (I use moistened paper towels to attract crickets), and this also attracts the dermestids. Whoever packaged your crickets should've not been so careless to include that many dermestids in with your shipment but their presence doesn't necessarily imply anything bad other than carelessness.

Tusla, Oklahoma had freezing overnight temperatures over the weekend you received your crickets as well (lows of 17 and 18 on Saturday and Sunday night). I think Fluker made a couple of mistakes here. One, they shipped over a cold weekend, and two, they put too many dermestids in your order. Otherwise, I think they did alright giving you a refund, they certainly didn't order from you. However, I think you may have gotten a little too upset over what was probably a couple honest mistakes.

You have the right to your opinion but I have spoken with others who disagree with your perspective, as do I. I do think this is a big deal and it's s shame that people like you would blow something like this off and act like it's nothing to be concerned about. Standards in the animal industry need to be higher, allowing things like this to slide make us all look bad and encourages the government to crack down on us. I have been ordering feeders for over thirty years and some suppliers are great, others suck. The ones who suck should go out of business. When a supplier starts sending out this many pests and doesn't seem to care, we should spread the word.

Flesh eating beetles are considered a pest species and they are not usually present in such high numbers at a cricket breeding facility unless they are a dirty facility which doesn't clean out the dead crickets as often as they should. All cricket breeders are going to have lots of dead crickets, it is the nature of the business, but decent facilities clean out the bins so often that these pests can't get a foothold.

You can defend Flukers if you want, but in my opinion, this is evidence of a filthy facility and bad customer service.

 

[Focal]

I don't think Vanessa is defending Flukers. From what I have seen, she is very knowledgeable with items like this and was offering you friendly advice. I don't think your battle will go far if you choose to bump heads with everyone because you are still upset.

 

[Lucille]

do think this is a big deal and it's s shame that people like you would blow something like this off and act like it's nothing to be concerned about. .

I did not read the above post as blowing off your concerns, it was an interesting explanation. I did a brief internet search of 'dermestids in cricket shipments' and the search came up with many similar explanations, these bugs do not seem to be uncommon in cricket shipments.

 

[Alexandrina]

You people are entitled to your opinions. If pests in your cricket shipments don't bother you, feel free to keep ordering from Flukers.

This warning is for people who don't want flesh eating beetles in their feeders. You may feel I am overreacting, but I don't, and I am sure many people will feel the same way I do about it. Perhaps you are used to getting pests with your feeders and have become jaded to it. If you bought some breakfast cereal and opened it up to find roaches would you be so forgiving? In my eyes, getting a thousand flesh eating beetles with my crickets is about the same thing. They are gross and spread disease.

Like I said, I think standards should be higher than this. Some of us don't like getting pests with our feeders and this warning is for those people. If I had seen a shipment like this I wouldn't order from whatever company did it. I am sure there will be a few people who appreciate that I posted a warning, even if y'all don't.

I have had problems with Flukers in the past but ordered from them again because they recently sent out an email stating that had a twenty percent off sale. I had stopped using Flukers years ago because I used to get abnormally high incidences of DOA's but I decided to give them another shot recently. My mistake. I should have stuck with my other suppliers. It is NOT normal for a supplier to have this many beetles in their cricket shipments, my other suppliers don't seem to have this problem.

Even if you have no problem with beetle pests in your crickets you have to admit that I did not get what I ordered. I paid around 70 bucks for 3000 crickets and some mealworms. I got a small fraction of what I ordered and a thousand or so pest beetles. I call that a bad deal. If you want to get technical about it, it can be considered mail fraud. If they don't refund my money I will do what I can to have them charged with fraud. I still have not received the refund they claim they gave me.

I have no desire for pests such as these in my house and I have been warned by others that these beetles are hard as hell to get rid of if they get loose in your house. This BIO warning is out there for people like me who do think things like this are an indication of sloppy practices. For those of you who don't, no big deal, keep ordering from Flukers and ignore my post.

 

[Chris Kennard]

I don't think Vanessa is defending Flukers. From what I have seen, she is very knowledgeable with items like this and was offering you friendly advice. I don't think your battle will go far if you choose to bump heads with everyone because you are still upset.

I fail to see a "battle" here. I also fail see to any bumping of heads. Your post seems passively instigatory. JMO. I think Sandra has every right to air her displeasure here and defend her points. That is what the boi is for. After seeing the photo, I would stear clear of that company. Thanks Sandra.

 

[Lucille]

I have spoken with others who disagree with your perspective

Name them

If they don't refund my money .

The email from them that YOU posted shows them offering you a full refund. Maybe give them another day or so to post it to your account.

 

[bwt501]

Get as technical as you want, it's nowhere near mail fraud.

 

[Chris Kennard]

I did not read the above post as blowing off your concerns, it was an interesting explanation. I did a brief internet search of 'dermestids in cricket shipments' and the search came up with many similar explanations, these bugs do not seem to be uncommon in cricket shipments.

Sandra did not say they were uncommon. She was displeased with the large number of these bugs as well as the number of crickets sent and the number of dead crickets in the shipment. Am I the only one here who looked at the photo and read her post???

 

[Alexandrina]

I rarely post on Fauna. Is there a clique here I am supposed to tippy toe around? I am getting a really strange vibe. Someone needs to clue me in to what's really going on here. I feel like I bumped a bees nest or something.

I am not sure why my reply to Vanessa is being construed as an attack. It almost feels like an army of defenders have shown up and it has nothing to do with my complaint about Flukers but has to do with with what someone thought was an attack on Vanessa. I feel no animosity towards her, I was just disagreeing with her opinion. Perhaps people are projecting and seeing emotions in my reply to her that are not there.

Lucille, I am not sure why you feel the need to say "Name them". My private conversations with others are not something I would make public. I have no need or desire to call people to this thread to defend my position. I stated my opinion, posted the emails and the photo evidence, and that's that. Now it is up to readers to decide if they want to order feeders from Flukers. People coming here to agree or disagree with me won't have much bearing on that. I am not one of those people who needs others to back her up. I state my opinion and leave it others to state theirs if they so desire. I would NEVER pull someone into a debate they didn't chose to join. If they want to come here and post, okay, if they don't, that's okay too. No big deal. I don't need backup.

Most people will look at the pictures and decide how they feel about flesh eating beetles and whether they want to risk infesting their homes with them. For those of you who don't care about them, my thread is worthless to you. Feel free to go read something else. I have no desire to try to talk you into hating beetles in your crickets. You have the right to feel any way you want about them. For those who DO care about flesh eating beetles in cricket orders, my thread is a useful resource.

 

[JColt]

I rarely post on Fauna. Is there a clique here I am supposed to tippy toe around? I am getting a really strange vibe.

Well if there wasn't, There will be now.


Every company has employees who either screw up or are screw ups. You need to give a company a little time to make things right. They seemed pleasant and wanting to help.

 

[Focal]

Lucille, I am not sure why you feel the need to say "Name them". My private conversations with others are not something I would make public.

It's in the rules.

 

[roro8633]

I own a pet store and order crickets from many different sources. These guys are in just about every shipment, some more then others. I kind of like them, lol. My small tarantulas love them b/c they never stop moving. I have a few customers that ask for them for there picky eating baby bearded dragons and leopard geckos. But I know what your saying, to much is a bad thing and they shouldn't be sending out that many in a shipment. But a few is not the end of the world.

 

[Focal]

Every company has employees who either screw up or are screw ups. You need to give a company a little time to make things right. They seemed pleasant and wanting to help.

You seem to want to shut the entire company down because you were disatisfied. They are attempting to right the situation. I fail to see where they are a 'bad guy' because your order didn't meet your standards. I probably would have been a little ticked too, but I don't see where they evil intentions, sorry.

 

[NPasquinelli]

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I have seen Dermestid labeled and sold as "cleaning crews" for feeder colonies because they eat the all of the things that you would normally have to clean out while leaving your living colony in tact. Assuming that is the case, I wouldnt necessarily take their presence as a sign of filthy facility.

 

[oldworldlife]

WoW your lucky I would love to get a box of dermestid beetles instead of crickets . Will you sell them? I hope you did not throw them away they're way more expensive then crickets. what a lucky score I'm buying flukers from now on !

 

[ShadowAceD]

I would like to preface by stating I do not buy from Fluker's. I have never used them as a supplier, but I have used over a dozen cricket suppliers in the past six years for Water Dragons.

While I would say the ratio of dermestid beetles to crickets is really bad in that shipment, I do think you should take a moment to breathe and calm down. Especially in regard to calling the health department on Fluker's. Fluker's apologized for the issue and was going to replace the shipment. When you began threatening them, they offered a full refund, which can take a few days to post back to your account. You have a right to be upset, I would be too if the number of beetles seemed to match the number of crickets, but again, they offered to fix it.

Every cricket supplier I have ever ordered from has had some of those guys hitch rides in my orders. The ratio in yours is unacceptable, I agree, but it happens and they were willing to correct it. You are screaming about these guys being "flesh eating" beetles, which is true, but they are "dead flesh eating" beetles. They will not harm you. Yes, it is possible they could get out and cause an infestation in your house, but so long as you either destroy them when they arrive or just watch them in the container while you are feeding the animal the cricket is meant for it should not be a problem. In the six years I dealt with crickets, I never had one cause an infestation in my house.

Many cricket suppliers keep these guys around to clean up dead crickets. In fact, that is the reason anyone keeps them, really. When you recieve shipments without them, odds are, they have been picked out or it is a much smaller operation that does not employ the help of the beetles.

 

[ShadowAceD]

Many cricket suppliers keep these guys around to clean up dead crickets. In fact, that is the reason anyone keeps them, really.

What I mean by that is the main reason people keep these beetles is to do their job in eating "dead flesh". There are labs that use them to eat dead tissue off of bones (private bone collectors do too), for instance.