For all the nay sayers!!! Serpentboy78=goodguy

[Dennis Hultman]

If by chance someone views this thread in the future to help them determine if they wish to purchase from Mike Clark.

This is what you should know.

Mike Clark has had several bad deals that we know of; you can find all the threads here on the BOI.

What we know for a fact

Offense One

Mike either sent a dead venomous snake or the snake died in transit through U.P.S.
to Dan Scolaro. There is a lot of information in that thread and some of it may or may not be true, but
what we do know from Mike without a shadow of any doubt.

He lied on that thread about being a poor little fishy in a big pond and Dan somehow convinced him to ship illegally. Mike said he would never do it again and he is sorry. Mike stated he know longer has venomous reptiles, that was a lie. That is a fact.

Mike started that thread and in the title of it he used a reputable persons name irresponsibly, a very unprofessional thing to do. There is a lot more in that thread if you feel the need to read it, here it is

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53430&highlight=Scolaro

Some highlights from Mike to keep in mind.

I no longer even keep hots.. . Mike Clark.

I made the mistake I regret it..... lesson learned... Mike Clark

I will admit I sent him to his house a LIVE az very well packed..and yes it was shipped by ground... I have admited that mistake and have learned from doing so. Yes I made the Mistake of sending him a coral via ground mail.. My mistake & I admit it fully... I could sit here and count off #'s of ppl on this forum that ship hots via ground,but that's not my finger to point... Mike Clark

Lesson learned... & believe you me. So he caught a fish and I sent him it that way.... What can I say that has not already been said...? Im only human Im entitled to a mistake or 2...... Mike Clark.

Im still waiting on TX fish&game to knock on my door .... I guess your call to the shipping companies did no good. I shipped everyday since this thread has started... MIke Clark

Offense Two

Mike did a trade with David Beard. Mike traded an Arizona Mountain Kingsnake in exchange for a pair of Mexican Milksnakes. This is a two-part thread.

Bottom-line in this thread the King died. Mike said he would pay David but he did not. Mike lied again.

We also learned that Mike defended himself in this thread under a false name possibly two. Mike also used this user name to give himself a positive trader reference in this forum.

We learned that Mike lied again in situation one above about no longer having hots. Mike has them for sale. He does not ship through any airline, so how is he still shipping them.

There is a lot more that I could say but if you need to know more the threads below.

Thread One

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61593&highlight=David+Beard

Thread Two

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62058&highlight=mike+clark

Which brings us to

Offense Three

On thread two of the second situation Mike Bump stood up and admitted he had received hots from Mike through the post office. Mike Bump posted pictures of the packages, labels, etc. Although, Mike Clark has not admitted to this shipment, I choose to believe the person who is not a known liar. Mike is a known habitual liar, illegal shipper, and thief for stealing David’s snakes That is basically what he did.

You can make up your own mind.

If you choose to deal with Mike Why take a chance from someone who has no ethics in his business and stole two snakes? You might have a good experience like some. What will he do if something goes wrong?
It is not worth the risk.

If you are a responsible person and have ethics you would not deal with someone who ships venomous through the Post Office and U.P.S.

Mike has received three strikes he should be thrown out on his

 

[snakegetters]

It seem pretty clear here that one bad guy tried to bribe another bad guy to stay quiet about illegal activities that BOTH of THEM were involved in.

I honestly don't think that's how it actually went down, even if that's how it sounded. Dan may be a bit long winded, but he's not a bad guy in my opinon for whatever that's worth. This is not a case of him telling only because a bad guy failed to come through on the bribe.

The briber(mikey) did not pay off the bribee(danny). The angry bribee(danny) then tells on the briber(mikey) and simutaniously gets himself back into the spotlight as someone who can be BRIBED to CONCEAL a federal CRIME for 2, count them, one and two, no more , no less, eastern hognose hatchlings.

Er, right, those are supposed to be valuable and all. If someone offered them to me for free however, I'd say no thank you, because I don't have space or personal interest in them and I am not a dealer or reseller of snakes. I've known Dan Scolaro to do the same kind of thing (turn down free snakes that were worth money), and I believe he has the same mentality as I do on the subject. Snakes do not equal dollar signs.

A offer of a pair of Eastern hognoses as a bribe would be strictly to laugh at and to report as bad guy behavior. I don't think it would occur to me to consider it anything more than an amusement. Suspect it wouldn't occur to Dan either. He has some really nice rarities in his collection, and his tastes run along the same lines as mine.

I'm not thrilled that Dan recieved hots via an illegal shipping method, but did he know ahead of time that an illegal shipping method was to be used?

 

[Chris@TSE]

Shipping hots involves shipping through airlines. Obviously this is something that would be discussed at the time of transaction since the receiver needs to pick them up at the airport....... So I think the statement "did he know ahead of time that an illegal shipping method was to be used?" does not hold much water in this discussion, but please don;t mind me. I'm lurking

 

[Chris@TSE]

Let me rephrase that a bit, that statement is basically pointing to the fact that there would be some sort of posibility the reciever did not know it was being shipped illegally. When dealing with hots its your job to know these things. You don't just pay and sit back and wait, you ask when to pick them up, you ask how they will be shipped, these are all things anyone with any experience is WELL aware of.

 

[snakegetters]

The thing is, Chris, I simply don't know all the facts of this situation. Dan has impressed me as being one of the good guys, with a mentality similar to mine in a lot of respects regarding how snakes should be cared for and not abused for profit. I would tend to suspect that he was not an active collaborator in the illegal shipping, but I don't know.

I was once the very surprised recipient of some copperheads to my door. No, I would not have chosen to recieve them this way if I had known that's how they were coming. Yes, sometimes people will do that to you anyways. Delta requires an address to ship airport to airport, and if you've given the dealer that address, there is not a whole lot to stop them from saving a few bucks on the shipping that way. It's not something a normal person would ever expect to have happen, but sometimes it does happen if you deal with bad guys that you don't know are bad guys.

 

[reptilebreeder]

Let me rephrase that a bit, that statement is basically pointing to the fact that there would be some sort of posibility the reciever did not know it was being shipped illegally. When dealing with hots its your job to know these things. You don't just pay and sit back and wait, you ask when to pick them up, you ask how they will be shipped, these are all things anyone with any experience is WELL aware of.

I wouldn't take a dare to read all the way through those threads again Maybe a triple dog dare but the way I remember the statements of Dan and the other guy was that they were expecting and possibly even paid for Delta shipping, then got an off the wall call that you should get your shipment today. serpentdude's "defense" was "well how did I get their address' if they didn't know about it?" But it's as snakegetters said even when you ship Delta you have to have an address even though it just goes to the airport. My Delta shipments and even overnighters that say "hold at station" all always had my home address and number on them.

 

[snakegetters]

When dealing with hots its your job to know these things. You don't just pay and sit back and wait, you ask when to pick them up, you ask how they will be shipped, these are all things anyone with any experience is WELL aware of.

When I buy hot coffee at Starbucks, do I really need to remind them to serve it in a cup rather than hurling it out of the pot in the direction of my mouth?

When I buy a staple gun at Home Depot, must I explain to the clerk that he should place my purchase in a bag instead of stapling it to my ear?

I agree that it is everyone's responsibility to help prevent illegal and unsafe things that threaten both human and animal safety as well as the future of our hobby. Unfortunately, it never used to occur to me to remind another keeper that they should adhere to the normal, safe industry practices and not do anything stupid or illegal. I generally just assumed that they aren't idiots and that they will ship the normal way.

These days I realize that this is not always a good assumption. But it's a very easy one to make if you've always done things the safe way and you just aren't used to people who do crazy things.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I agree that it is everyone's responsibility to help prevent illegal and unsafe things that threaten both human and animal safety as well as the future of our hobby.

Glad you said that. A few people here think we should just play ostrich and stick our heads in the sand.

These days I realize that this is not always a good assumption.

Nope, can't assume anything. There are at least a half dozen threads in the last month alone.

 

[snakegetters]

Glad you said that. A few people here think we should just play ostrich and stick our heads in the sand.

Well, you have to figure that the uproar that could be caused by reporting such an incident might be detrimental in and of itself. So the responsible herper sitting at home with an unwittingly recieved illegal package in his hand, knowing that nothing has gone wrong this time, might think about it and make the decision not to report this incident to avoid potential negative consequences to the entire hobby.

I'm not so sure that's the right decision, but I could see somebody making it in an attempt to avoid stirring up trouble for everybody in our hobby. Of course that begs the question as to what could happen if the illegal shipper does not stop their unwise activity and eventually someone gets hurt or killed. I don't think there is any really good solution for a problem like this, except not to let it happen in the first place. And that's not a realistic solution when you're already dealing with an active situation.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Of course that begs the question as to what could happen if the illegal shipper does not stop their unwise activity and eventually someone gets hurt or killed.

I do belive that is the bigger picture here.

Well, you have to figure that the uproar that could be caused by reporting such an incident might be detrimental in and of itself. So the responsible herper sitting at home with an unwittingly recieved illegal package in his hand, knowing that nothing has gone wrong this time, might think about it and make the decision not to report this incident to avoid potential negative consequences to the entire hobby.

I think outing these people on BOI is worthy to the hobby. I also do not believe anyone has been arrested in any of the cases here. At least we know who they are and can avoid doing business with these individuals. I think self-policing is working.

I would also add that I would rather have the attention brought before someone dies then after. The negative attention would be far less.

 

[David Scarboro]

Jmo

I honestly don't think that's how it actually went down, even if that's how it sounded. Dan may be a bit long winded, but he's not a bad guy in my opinon for whatever that's worth. This is not a case of him telling only because a bad guy failed to come through on the bribe.

Tanith, I have to agree. When this whole thing started, I came down on Mike's side. I feel some of that was due to Dan being very long winded, and some of it would have to be on my shoulders for jumping to conclusions. Time, the BOI, and finally Mike himself have proven Dan right. Long live the BOI!!

 

[eastTxherpman]

as I said im new to the site

I'd just like to start by saying,I have always told myself I'd never sign up for this site and get into these pi$$ing contests that so many of you love to do on a daily basis. But after reading and more reading on the Serpentboy saga,I felt it the right thing to do,to come on here and tell about our most recent deal. I just got some really nice baby albino holbrooki from him. I will also say I have met Mike sevral times and we have herped in the field together and took photos together. I read in one of these threads that some one was talking down on Mike,saying he collects every snake he finds in the field. That is not true if anything he bitches at me for collecting so much. Im sorry to see Mike's name being pi$$ed on like this I know he is a good guy and has a bada$$ collection,that he takes pride in and takes very well care of. We herp together,our wives and kids spend time together.I just would like to say Mike is not this bad person you people are making him out to be. I wont comment on the shipping Hots thing of course I dont agree with that,but I ask that you people please look at this Dan Scoloro fellow,he is a pretty creepy guy IMO. He was not entrapped into anything and he and many many other people know it. That guy needs to be removed from this hobby just as you people think Mike should. He is a LIAR I remember that transaction very well,all I can say is I wish Mike would of saved those emails that Dan wrote him then you guys would see the real Dan Scoloro.(LIAR) As for the David Beard issue yes that deal went shady, all I can say is David should of sent the snake back like Mike asked so many times. Mike has a 72 hour gaurntee not 73 74 or even 75. Do I think that is shady sure but that is his terms. 1 person in genral keeps saying that Mike still keeps and sells hots NOT true. look @ www.serpentboy.com I dont want to go on and on but I had a lil input to say,and would like to say The holbrooki I just got from Mike were flawless. I met him In 1/2 to do the deal. Our famlies even went out to dinner. I dont have A comp @ home so I cant check this very often,Im sure there will be plenty of replies to it from all the lifers on this site. and if you wanna do an ip trace please do you will see it comes from the same town where Mike used to live where we met and go herping. Mike thank you for the nice snakes man the wife loves them. It's almost that time of yr again get your camera and snake hooks ready. Take it easy. God Bless. Donald Williams.
Quote:
Kiss my @$$, I gave Mike my word before I even read these threads that if he sold certain animals I would buy them. I kept my word knowing you people are set to jump anyone even remotley associated with Mike.Your problems do not give me a valid reason to break my word. PERIOD. I have done previous deals with Mike and all the animals were excellant

There are many many other people out there that would say the same things ,they just dont like these BOI games, and I can assure they and many people will still continue to buy from Mike. Happy Monday. Donald Williams.
So I will repost where you boi lifers would like this posted. All you people can keep saying is that anyone that comes on and posts on or about Serpentboy's behalf is him coming on under another screen name. I dont blame him for not coming back and posting anything on this site. I see now why i never signed up for it. It is full of nothing but IMO coffe addicts whom have nothing better to do with their time. Keep the publicity going please Mike's sells have not been hurt in the least, reason being people are not blind they can come here and read all the psycho babble you ppl keep posting but any normal person with 1/2 a brain know's this site is IMO a crock. & does not affect the sells of anyone who gets bad mouthed on here if anything you help the people because in the end all anyone will remember is the person's name. I have seen is dozens of times on here,and those ppl still sell on a daily basis. So now anytime someone comes on here and posts something about an experience being a good 1 with serpentboy the post will get locked.? What a joke. I got issued warning point by more than 1 mod. for the same thing. This site is a JOKE and this will be my last post ever you actually even tried to consider to make this a payable site. LMAO With all that being said FAH-Q!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DAND]

Another quality individual speaking up for Mike. Boy, Mike really attracts winners.

 

[David Scarboro]

Don't Worry

This site is a JOKE and this will be my last post ever you actually even tried to consider to make this a payable site.

Donald
I don't think that you are Mike. You do write a lot like him, and your spelling is not too hot, but... I'm sure that he would want this to drop off of the board. IMO I don't think that you are helping him much here! As far as this being your last post, BuhBye!

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Topshelf: What is your point with all this speculative statements? You read the transaction, and speak as though you know it? What else do you want? You want it served to you? Ok, pick up your phone tomorrow, dial 954-427-2938 and speak to Stacy Siegel. She was my witness not Ben. She saw the dead and diseased ridden snake the same hour and day I received it. Additionally, as you perhaps may know, I traded Mike Clark $340 dollar worth of snakes for his 150 dollar coral snake, and I paid for my shipping and he paid for his. He mentioned UPS to me, and I told him I thought Delta was better. The night he shipped, I received UPS tracking data. I was not sure about this so I asked Stacy the next day and she confirmed my fears, that it was illegal. Any doubt still? Call Stacy. Was I supposed to turn myself in to the police? I did squat except be a victim of crime. And it was Stacy who was at my side when Mike Clark said on the telephone that he would only pay for half my of my traded snakes retail value and also knew he confess to sending a dead snake in the first place. Also, this bribe crap is way out of hand. Mike Clark offered hognoses snakes asking me to not report him to kingsnake.com. I refused a dozen times and only said yes to shut him up. I never accepted them, never asked for them, and also refused them when he offered them in October. Any more skeptical questions? Spoke to fish and game about him today again. Happy. I hope so.

 

[DavidBeard]

As for the David Beard issue yes that deal went shady, all I can say is David should of sent the snake back like Mike asked so many times. Mike has a 72 hour gaurntee not 73 74 or even 75

I guess birds of a feather really do flock together.

 

[Chris@TSE]

He mentioned UPS to me, and I told him I thought Delta was better. The night he shipped, I received UPS tracking data. I was not sure about this so I asked Stacy the next day and she confirmed my fears, that it was illegal. Any doubt still?

I'm not doubting you Dan, but I must say this...

Anyone who wishes to purchase venomous specimens must take the resposibility of researching these things before even contimplating such a purchase. Most people in the feild of law would tell you something we've all probably heard many times: "Ignorance is no excuse"

Dont take this the wrong way, its not a person attack or anything of the like. I do believe however you should have researched this information before even looking to buy. It is your responsibility to know these things, and with such dangerous specimens I am sure you can agree 110%.

As for the whole bribe thing, I was not commenting on that scenario, only the shipping. I had not really read that far into it yet. But I would still like to bribe someone for some hoggies.

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Chris:

Actually I did do a bit of research to the extent of viewing other ads mentioning Delta Dash, hence, that is why I suggested Delta to Mike Clark. I did not just make the words "Delta" up in my mind without forethought? And if someone thinks anyone would buy a reptile with the forethough of how it may get shipped to them, then they are only kidding themselves.

In either case, this case is not unlike many others: you just needed to be there to understand and appreciate the con. You have to speak with him to understand that he is a born conartist and is well suited to earn his way with you. Mike Clark will get you interested in the deal, offer you this or that later at no cost or next to nothing, pat you on the back, promise you future trades and purchases, have you set up your new snake tank expecting the snake and then stick a knife in your back and ram you in the arss when your down.

Also, by the way, that trade was my first ever reptile purchased via Internet and shipping, and I did not even know at the time that it was illegal to ship venomous via ground, and that is why I confirmed my worries with my boss at the time who was experienced in these matter.

And what is most important here to remember is that Mike Clark is a calculated criminal who sets out to entrap his customers with him in his unlawful acts, thus securing silence in his victim. And Mike Clark is actually good at what he does. I mean, if you were entrapped in your trade with him, would you want to post that mess on the BOI and face a thousand insults and speculative questions, or simply turn yourself into the fish and game officers? I offered Mike Clark $10,000 to prove one word his said about me. He did not take the offer because if he lost the wager, he would have had to promise to walk away from the reptile business forever.

I mean look at what Mike Clark is doing now, after all of what has been posted about his morals and ethics on this forum. Yesterday, Mike Clark advertised on kingsnake.com, 1.2 eastern hognoses for 400 dollars. For 400 dollars, you can perhaps purchase a pair of captive bred baby biak green tree pythons from an honest reptile dealer. At best, those eastern hognoses are worth 50 bucks a piece as toad eating wild caughts, so that is 150 dollars worth of snakes. He is asking 250 dollars more than what they are worth. In addition, Mike Clark threw in some lie in the ad about them being toad feeder as that is his preference? Who does he think he is kidding with that bull? Yea, his preference is to find a free toad instead of buying a mouse and attempting to do the hard work to convert the hog to rodents. I mean this Mike Clark is either sucking the pipe so hard or he has no common sense at all. He does not even know how much of a fool he looks like. And what is worse, he does not care even after being told that he is a fool. Mike Clark field collects hognoses every spring and summer and would not even put a racer down and sold some racers last fall.

Did you see the other hognose picture from his website? The one with the eastern hognose sitting on crushed walnut dessert blend eating a pinkie coated with the desert blend? Not only does Mike Clark not know how to house his snakes on the proper substrate (mulch), he is standing there with his camera permitting his snake to ingest crushed walnut. And what is even worse, is that he is dumb enough to post that picture of animal cruelty on his web site.

I hope the naive person who is contemplating to pay 400 dollars for three hognose snakes does a reference check on the BOI about Mike Clark. I mean, he is under the gun for being a confessed criminal, and to show his peers he learned from his mistakes, he presents the next week to rob another customer out of 250 dollars. Perhaps he needs the bail money?

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Dan

I asked a question in an earlier post that never got answered so I thought i would toss it out again.

How can it be that you have, by your own statements, been in the hobby for 30 years, you worked for Ben Seigel, undoubtedly one of the most prolific shippers in the hobby, and yet you proclaim that you are completely unfamiliar with the legalities and specifics of virtually all shipping methods?

I have to be honest Dan.....that one is just about impossible to swallow.


Again, I do believe that you were shipped sub par animals in both instances. However, as to your statements on the shipping...not so much. I, personally believe that you were well aware of the illegality of shipping Hots through the big three and, possibly grudgingly, acquiesed to it as a matter of convenience.

On a side note, animals do simply die. Every animals that you receive that is not "perfect" is not necessarily infected with a "deadly disease" as you have repeatedly stated in both instances. Again Dan, the melodramatic statements only detract from the believability of your posts.

Personally folks i think this one has been beat literally to death. Mike Clark is a proven maggot. He needs to be gone. End of story.

 

[snakegetters]

As for the whole bribe thing, I was not commenting on that scenario, only the shipping. I had not really read that far into it yet. But I would still like to bribe someone for some hoggies.

I used to give Heterodon away when I would occasionally remove them on nuisance calls in Florida, in situations where they could not reasonably be returned to the wild. They get mistaken for venomous snakes fairly easily and it's a bit of a letdown to find one at the end of a chase. I gave away several of them when I was doing wildlife removal down there. Not sure what anyone sees in them, but to each his own.

Give me a beautiful copperhead any day. Those magnificent colors, those tigerlike yellow eyes, the beautifully formed diamond head, the gentle grace of movement that adds to the overall feline impression, all add up to a snake that I love a whole lot. I'd swap you any day for a nice copper. I personally think that hognoses are overvalued and coppers are undervalued, but I don't really want to think of any snake in terms of dollar signs. Either I am willing to commit to keeping them because I want them, or I don't. It's just a matter of personal preference.

If I was still getting them in, I'd still be giving them away to qualified homes with veterinary care, but I've relocated and handed the Florida operation of Snake Getters over to Howard Riley. If I find any up here in North Carolina that really can't be left alone in the wild, they'll be needing homes because I won't make space for them in my snake room. Doubt I'll find any that need homes anytime soon though, since I'm not currently doing nuisance removal.