for Fred Tom and Kim

[kim felts]

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

 

[HallsHerps]

Dearest jason ,
i would like  to ask you while you are getting the foot out of your mouth  to see if you need any help getting your head out of Bills ass? See when i post something in here as questions i spend a lil time reading over the prior posts & topics <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> wow its real easy ya just hafta scroll through the posts a lil while and READ can you do this ? and you seem to think we are the ones forging these stories ? now before you are so quick to fire from the hip young man i suggest you read up on your mentor and the posts that pretain to him for a lil lesson in education ... now i will only say this WHAT IF YOU HAD THE COMMON SENSE TO RESEARCH  something before you let your mouth over shoot your @ss...WHAT IF?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>.. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ohhhhh were not going to go there</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
now i will allow you time to read through all the posts made prior to this and make sure you know the real deal before you so quickly jump up and swing at airballs  ... but then maybe you learned this from Bill to use harsh uneducated guesses to try to protectthat in which you know absolutely nothing about , so as i said stew over the posts a lil and i will quiz you again on monday maybe then you might get a passing grade ...
take care and have a good weekend

PS  i was going to post what was posted for you last night .. but as i knew i was right i wanted to see you gloat a lil before the rug was yanked out from under you... <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

 

[Classic Dum's]

well Alan you are right, and for that comment I do apoligize, I have done my research
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">harsh uneducated guesses to try to protectthat in which you know absolutely nothing about </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>, I have not made harsh uneducated guesses, just some mistakes, I am not trying to point the finger or direct attention from myself but I am not the only one who has made this mistake, in this topic, so somewhere along the way I wasnt the only to get off track, but thats is besides the point were are discussing my mistakes here, this has gone on so long and I have received so MANY emails, phone calls and spoken to so many people about this that simply somewhere along the way I got off track, where I dont know but thats all excuses so I will leave it at this, your were right I was wrong, my comments directed at you I do sincerly apoligize, but now I will go look for that doc to have my foot surgically removed from my mouth, take care, Jason

 

[HallsHerps]

well jason i will accept your aplogies , but  like i said  please make sure you follow the entire piegion coup b4 you try to pick out the last bird in line , as you have found out that last bird is not always  the truely last one. And one last question for you , why is Bills buisness so important to you that you are going through all the ph calls and such , ? and why is your good friend Bill letting you go on about things he could  head you off at the pass before you would have gotten your foot in your mouth? not being flaming here i just hate to see  people follow someone so blindly they cant see where its taking them.

 

[Classic Dum's]

Alan, Im am just going to copy and paste because I am feeling lazy again, long night with the baby
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">why is Bills buisness so important to you that you are going through all the ph calls and such </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> why is his buisness so important to me, its not, I have made some mistakes here, but I still dont think this situation is what it has been made to be, from the emails I have received I would think it is safe to say that probally somewhere around 80% of the ongoings in these forums concerning this topic are all driven by one group, my one email program autodeletes emails after so many days if I do not move them to another folder, when I received these emails these forums were quite and I had other things going on so I didnt have the chance to move them till they got deleted, thats my mistake but the people involved or "leaders" of this group have backed out of these topics, they are lying, slandering and doing just about anyting they can to encourage other people to take up their fight,  I dont belive that is right,  
as far as the phone calls I didnt call anyone I have had people calling me wanting infomation on this and also wanting info on IBD and as this has been a hot topic, tons of people that read but never post have been concerned about it, I have spoken to loyal costumers, freinds and people I dont even know, many who just simply trusted my opinion and knowldge of the subject

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and why is your good friend Bill letting you go on about things he could  head you off at the pass before you would have gotten your foot in your mouth?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
well to the best of my knowledge he didnt read any of this till the day he posted and I dont think he has followed this portion of the thread at all, I havnt discussed it with him recently, I havnt followed him blindly, my fault is I havnt reread some of the orlder post and my info has gotten jumbled throughout time, there was things prior he did correct me, this time here was my fault, once again I apoligize, if you wanna speak over the phone I got a ton more info about this little movement that I am sure you find interesting and maybe understand my side a little better, as alot of it is hearsay coming from reliable sources but I really dont care to post it in here considering all the lawyers involved in this, take care Jason

 

[HallsHerps]

Jason , far as any lynch mobs ,gang busters or any of that  im not aware of  i only know a few people here and i can say im in no suspected clicks or groups of witch hunters , i got involved in this on my on accord .why because regardless of who was at fault for the IBD you buddy Bill seemed to think him self "Godly" in which nothing can touch him  i  like i said had even thought of possibly gettin a pair from him before the sh#t hit the fan with IBD but after seeing how he handled himself with chris regardless of how many snakes from his own prized collection he gave the guy he acted like a 5 yr old from the start  , by thinking it was not his fault the snakes he sold had IBD  IMO it was just as much his fault as it was dale's fault why you ask  ok we allways tell people how important qurainting new snakesare right ? ok most will agree i safe time period is 60 - 90 days  right ? so how can he blame him selling a  snake he got with IBD  on the person he sold it to ? i mean if he had done a good quarintine period im sure this would have been caught at his place and would have never happend meaning all that would have gone on was he  would have handled this with Dale alone and would not have put hiself in the position to have to give up his own snakes or refund $  or pay a other persons vet report  right? i mean i have not started selling snakes yet but just a small # of them and they were  either long term pets of mine that had been with me for over a year or had gone atleast 60 days of being watched .i would not sale a snake that i get in a trade or  anything like that as if i was to sellthat snake and it had problems who is responsible the person i got it from to start with ? no i am because i took the steps to sell it w/o making sure of its health .thats just how i look at it others may do it different thats fine  but myself im not looking to  give anyone the chance to post any negitive post  that says i sold them a sick snake? its just not worth my time to hafta deal with the negitivity of the situation . there fore  it circles back to bill regardless of who he got it from he didnt take time to assure the snakes were healthy before he made his bucks off them . and as quarintines go i wont buy / or take trades  for more  snakes then i have room to house seperately meaning how can you quarintine each snake that you get if there in with 2-5-10 or 20 others? if you cant be sure each snake is healthy its like sitting in a doctors office  20 ppl there and all have the possiblity of having something thats why there there
.. ok ill end this  now but like i  said i have no personell beef with you jason but i just have strong beleifs in what i post and when i do i try to make sure i have facts  and when i post as such that means if i dont i can goto the post that contains them , if i dont post as facts i will gladley say they are my opinions ..

 

[Kingvyper]

Jason you are so DUM!
  This is how you responded to my post:  "You take great pride in never having lived up to anything
Lie steal cheat and kill a real bad guy
Your daddy is a winno, and your mommy is quite insane
from altar boy to sewer rat you dont give a damn
Your sister is a junkie, gets "it" anyway she can
Your brother is a gay singer in a stud leather band
Your girlfreind' s got herpes to go with her hep and aides
there aint one person you know you aint ripped off yet
Look deep in the mirror, look deep into itsa eyes
Your face is replaced by a creature you dipise
I know what your made of, it much Im afraid
I know youll be lying till your dying day

You're a liar
A F%$&ING LIAR
Filthy Liar"
Megadeth, Dave Muistane,Liar, So Far So Good So What, 1987



Here is what I have to say!  I would rather be all of that and my family be all of what you said than to be you and have Bill Cagle as my Mom and Bin Laden as my Dad!!  You are about to be the dumbest vet I know.  If I could I would bury you in a grave face down, so the more you tried to dig the farther you would be from the rest of us!  By the way Fred being my friend has nothing to do with you being worthless!!  So you take it and shove it!  I can't tell Bill to shove it because you are already in his a$$!!  I tried to see things your way, but I couldn't get my head that far up my a$$!!  

Andre McAlister

 

[Classic Dum's]

well dude maybe had there been anything but lies I would have responded differantly but ya didnt give me much to work with, so sorry if I dissapointed ya see ya

 

[Chris Red]

Jason I must say I love the rock lyrics!!!! What is KIX about...that band was crap in the 80's...in my hood you could get your a$$ kicked for just saying  KIX !!! Sorry I know this has not a thing to do with snakes, but KIX is as bad as IBD!!!

 

[Classic Dum's]

Well maybe thats so Chris but were I come from they happen to be one of our home town (or in their case almost) favorties, I am from York Pa, Live Fuel, Poison, several others bands came from, Kix are from Baltimore, 20 minutes away, on top of which they are one of the best bands to come out in the 80's and most under rated, not only did they write awesome songs but there guitarists kicked a$$, and Steve is pretty cool although he talks like a chipmunk, we used to party with him from time to time


I was going to let this one go but since Chris took the liberty to start this thread again

Hey Fred I got some things to show ya!!!!!

No Lies(copied and pasted from your ad on kingsnake)

These snakes have been in my COLLECTION for 1
year.(came from the same ad)


"Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:15:13 -0800 (PST)
From: "Fred A" <[email protected]> | Block Address  | Add to Address Book
To: [email protected]
Subject: Jason/Danni, need your opinion...............      
Hi Folks!!
... The reason for this e-mail is I would like your opinion.
I found a pair of Madagascerensis on the classifeds, have wanted these for quite a while, and finally have sold some snakes and may be able to affordthem.The problem is this:
I cant truly tell if they are PURE madagascerensis or Dumerills/Mad intergrades(Read: mutts)
Jason, with your practiced eye for dumerills, you could pick it out right away.  I also went to toyu guys because I didnt want to go to someone that would be competeing with me for the snakes, instead of giving me their honest opinion...."


oh wait lets look at that date on that email again "Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:15:13" ummm and I know they were not bought for another 3 or 4 weeks after this email so that means, you didnt get them till late Nov probally Dec and they have bairly been in you collection for 4.5 months, but hey everyone Fred does not lie because "No Lies" his ad says so, and why dont you tell the truth about that male while your at it!!! hummm??

can we say missrepresenation, if you had them for ten months i could see rounding up and saying a year having them for 4 months and rounding to a year, go figure

 

[kim felts]

jason..

what male? that part of your post didnt make sense.
why didnt you tell them about your male i think it said- you were talking to fred.

 

[AztecFred]

To Kim,Neil,Tom and all others,

 Because  of a recent emergency regarding the health of a family member close to me,I was forced to put up snakes for sale when I was ill prepared to do so and also deal with the drama that comes with someone being terminally ill in my family.  In my rush to sell some of my snakes,I inadvertently posted the wrong date as the length of time they were in my collection. They were in fact bought arounf Oct30,2001 and have been in my collection for about 4 1/2 months as of this writing. Jason is correct in that. I have pulled and changed the ad to relect the 4.5 months.

AS FOR THE LETTER that Jason SAVED and printed here, it WAS from me. I had contacted Jason in October of 2001 concerning the purchase of 1.1 Mad Ground boas from a then unknown to me source for snakes . Jason knew the guy and  at the time I trusted his opinion as he keeps Dumerills and lives back east, as does this individual. Basically, I was asking him what he thought of the guy, since he lived on the same coast as Jason and Jason had bought from him.

Between that time and now a lot has transpired between Jason and myself. He has defended Bill Cagle, his good friend and business associate, even in light of the way he treated a customer of his , one Kemper Ruth, which was pretty lousy.



Since I asked him that question, my opinion of Jason has diminished greatly. He is an outspoken critic of people around him that dont agree with him, and he vehemently defends people that , quite frankly, we all know to be not good individuals. He has defended Bill Cagle MANY times and wil continue t do so in the future no doubt. I have no respect for Jason, and Jason in turn has no respect for me. Dealing with an illness in the family is never easy, especially when you have #### heads like this takeing the opportunity to be the"moral vangaurd" for the herp community. I am NOT angry that he corrected me on the dates, more so that he would post an email that I sent him to glorify himself as some type of guru and at the same time try to entrap me in a lie Frankly, if he was going to guard someone, the FIRST
Person he ought to cry wolf over is his good friend:
Bill Cagle
but that never happens, because that would mean that JASON would have to align himself against someone that is seeminly bigger than he is. which he doesnt do.

 

[Chris Red]

Jason it doesn't matter were KIX is from they bite!!!  Sorry big hair is funny....and in the 80's people still thought they sucked...but If  they come around here on tour with Quit Roit are Britney Fox I'll be sure to go some Kick A$$ rock...well that's if the comedy club is closed!!!

 

[kim felts]

lmao..now you got me laughing too chris.
maybe you could tell me since im kinda old and dont really appreciate the humor like i would like to.
who is kix and what is big hair?
i probably remember it but im not sure..then we could all laugh and i wont act so chitty about it i guess.
although i seem to have to say some chitty thing one way or the other..so that might not work but im willing to give it a try.