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Gargoyle (cinny/het red) question

scratchypen

scratchypen

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So, a friend of mine claims that if you pair a gargoyle (cinny/het red) to anything you will never get gargoyles. Supposedly, it does a similar thing to a super stripe. A super stripe will only throw yellow bellies and spectors. A gargoyle thus, will only throw het red axanthics and cinnamons. He just had a clutch from a female killerbee to a male gargoyle pairing. From that pairing, which appears to have about 8 babies in it or so, he did not get a single gargoyle combo, however did get het red combos and cinny combos. He said that another breeder told him that you never will get an actual gargoyle from a gargoyle pairing. Has anyone else done a pairing where they used a gargoyle as the sire/dam and got a clutch of only het reds/cinnamons? Theoretically, you would not get normals from this as well if this is true. Just interested to see what happened with other people. Thanks tons! :D
 
This would be very interesting and drive me to believe the super black/Cinny/Red Axanthic is a complex similar to the Blue eyed Leucistic.

I also find it interesting that over the last several years a lot of new morphs seem to be extremely reactive with certain other morphs.
 
Well, there has been discussion before on other forums (maybe even this one) about the het red being allelic to the cinny/black pastel gene. I just never thought it would affect it to the degree to which the animal would be unable to reproduce itself. My friend's clutch had 9 eggs in it, not a single gargoyle. I just also am wondering if the spider gene may affect it in such a way that would cause the pattern of the gargoyle not to show through in that clutch, but, who knows? Considering that a big breeder claims that the gargoyle cannot reproduce itself and what happened with this clutch, im leaning towards the fact that it is indeed true, but, two instances just is not enough proof for me. :)
 
They are the same Loci...just different alleles...thats why they wont reproduce...and not all Blue eyed lucy's in that complex are created equal...look at the supper phantom mystic potion etc...
 
dumje said:
They are the same Loci...just different alleles...thats why they wont reproduce...and not all Blue eyed lucy's in that complex are created equal...look at the supper phantom mystic potion etc...
Click to expand...
This is going to be the case. And just like the BEL's the Gargoyles/Onyxs are not created equal either. From Green pastels, Het Reds, Black pastels, to Cinnys they all throw different looking offspring. Its an untapped genetic
phenomenon.
 
I can justify it by looking at results from breeding...there are 4 known alleles at this point for that particular gene....and the results say I'm right....
 
I wouldn't call Super Phantoms or Mystic Potions BELs because...well...they aren't leucistic.

Trying to clear up some confusion on my end.... How can something not be on the same allele but still not be able to reproduce itself? In other words, how can a Black Pastel het Red only produce Black Pastels and het Reds if the Black Pastel and het Red genes aren't on the same allele? The only way I can think of as to why that would work is that only one gene per locus can be passed on to offspring, but I thought it was only one gene per allele....
 
An allele is Black Pastel....cinny....het red...green pastel....all 4 are alleles that can be found in the same location or Loci in the Chromosomes...BUT....you can only have 2 alleles...1 from the dad and 1 from the mom...and yes...those are not blue eyed...but all interact and are allelle's in the same loci...good?
 
dumje said:
1 gene per locus...
Click to expand...

One gene pair per locus, might be a better way of saying it, since it isn't always the same gene...ie HRA/cinny, specter/YB, motley/hypo (boas).
Each parent gives one half of the gene pair from any given locus, so the offspring can't get both from one side.
(I don't know that "gene" is the correct term there, but it is easily understandable & commonly used)
 
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