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Bad Guy GeckosEtc Line Strength

smashtoad

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Hi all,

This is a situation that has been going on for over a year, and I'll keep it as short as possible.

I bought $850 worth of Leopards from GeckosEtc. They were crap. The $550 Super Giant male was dead in less than sixty days from a prolapsed hemipene. The beautiful super snow female struck at her prey 1/4" short consistently. She lost interest in food and never regained it. I force fed as a last resort, and she nose dived and died. The other two I almost lost but managed to turn them around.

The owner of GeckosEtc and I have been round and round over this, and both of us have kept all the emails exchanged. During the entire situation, I was made to believe it was something I was doing.

The owner will say I said that I would write them off as a loss. This is true. I was convinced I had done it or they were flukes. The owner will say I refused his offer. Also true. I didn't want to send anymore money.

Two days ago I discovered someone else who had one of his super giant males prolapse a hemipenes shortly after arrival. This person ALSO lost one of his super snow females (egg bound). When I discovered this all my opinions about my transaction changed, and I brought it up with him again, saying that if something wasn't done, I was going to the forums.

To this I received an email crying cause I was threatening him. I am a customer that spent what is to me a lot of money. In my estimation, some of his lines are starting to show line bred weaknesses.

He said he was afraid to send me more geckos for fear that I would find something wrong with them and blame his lines. Uhhhh....sorry for expecting you to stand behind your expensive lizards. My bad. How dare I.

But of course, I'm crazy. He tells me he has the best guarantee in the business. For these types of issues, 30 days may not be enough. I asked for a $400 lizard to replace $700 worth of livestock that I believe we're genetically weak.

He told me to forget it. So buying from GeckosEtc., in this guys opinion, a roll of the dice. I know he has tons of satisfied customers, and that is great. I, however, am not one of them.
 
I've spent over $1200 with geckos etc with no problems and would happily buy from him again. He is a top gecko breeder with a lot of experience. Any gecko can prolapse or get egg bound.

Can you post all the messages and how you keep your geckos?
 
Two days ago I discovered someone else who had one of his super giant males prolapse a hemipenes shortly after arrival. This person ALSO lost one of his super snow females (egg bound). When I discovered this all my opinions about my transaction changed, and I brought it up with him again, saying that if something wasn't done, I was going to the forums.


You also need to give this person's name.
 
The offer was never verbalized. Kristi, I have been herping since 1974, and these are leopard geckos. Their husbandry is not rocket science. And one could assume that someone spending $850 on leopards knows how to keep them, yes?

I will offer the other persons name if and only if that person gives me permission.

I said in my opinion it was "rolling the dice", and said that I was fully aware that he had tons of very satisfied customers.
 
I've spent over $1200 with geckos etc with no problems and would happily buy from him again. He is a top gecko breeder with a lot of experience. Any gecko can prolapse or get egg bound.

Can you post all the messages and how you keep your geckos?

Kristi, there is nothing you can do to save this deal. I posted this mainly because I am curious to see if anyone else has had similar experiences.
 
The offer was never verbalized. Kristi, I have been herping since 1974, and these are leopard geckos. Their husbandry is not rocket science. And one could assume that someone spending $850 on leopards knows how to keep them, yes?

I will offer the other persons name if and only if that person gives me permission.

I said in my opinion it was "rolling the dice", and said that I was fully aware that he had tons of very satisfied customers.

How did you refuse an offer that was never verbalized?

I understand how people hate being questioned when they post here, but the entire point of the BOI is to be objective. We can't just take anyone's word for it. If you want this thread to make a difference then you ought to provide as much information as humanly possible.
 
I would also like to add that the other person did not seem bothered at all by their experience. They were also successful in saving that SG male by keeping him on moistened paper towel.

I am aware that any gecko can become egg bound. My super snow had depth perception issues, of that there is no question. It just struck a chord in me that we had both had similar issues with the same morphs from the same supplier.
 
Third party info is not allowed unless you name the person.

As for your husbandry, you'd be surprised at what I've heard and seen. Proper knowledge has nothing to do with how much you've spent.
 
Kristi, there is nothing you can do to save this deal. I posted this mainly because I am curious to see if anyone else has had similar experiences.

Unfortunately the "bad guy" drop down you selected makes this less of an inquiry and more of an accusation. The standard protocol for bad guy threads is for people to find out both sides of the story. Not necessarily to save the deal, but to ensure that the truth is found out.
 
How did you refuse an offer that was never verbalized?

I understand how people hate being questioned when they post here, but the entire point of the BOI is to be objective.

At one point he said he would give me a deal, but the specifics of the deal were never outlined. Yeah, if this is going to be a litany of one line questions, that is going to be annoying, you're right.

I'd just like to see if anyone else comes forward. So before you worry about taking my word for it, lets see what happens.
 
Unfortunately the "bad guy" drop down you selected makes this less of an inquiry and more of an accusation. The standard protocol for bad guy threads is for people to find out both sides of the story. Not necessarily to save the deal, but to ensure that the truth is found out.

Unfortunately, there were only three choices. Maybe "inquiry" would have been more appropriate, but is it really that big of a deal?
 
Unfortunately, there were only three choices. Maybe "inquiry" would have been more appropriate, but is it really that big of a deal?

It's a huge deal. Do you want a big red bad guy warning next to your name? It can cost people business and tarnish their reputation.
 
I've spent in excess of $2000.00 with Steve, and both him and his animals have been a pleasure to work with.
In fact, I actually called tonight to get some advice on animals I bought back in August and he still took the time to answer my questions. The animals have been superb, eat extremely well, and are producing for me with no issues.
I imagine with his well earned reputation it is going to take more than a few written words to get anyone who knows him to give your post much validity without some sort of proof.
 
ok wait....let me make sure I understand what is going on here...

You buy geckos...those geckos have issues...30 day health guarantee and you still keep them, despite their issues (30 days in insanely awesome from ANY breeder, let alone geckos. Good luck finding that ANYWHERE else)

They die once the guarantee is up ....you agree no compensation is needed (the reasons why you made that choice are moot....you admit to agreeing that resolution was not required)

Lots of time passes (a year, if you say you only got this info 2 days ago)....then you find out that someone else has issues with their geckos, prolapse and egg binding are more nature than husbandry. Unless the male had been over sex? does it work the same as snakes? lol

Anyway...you gain new info....you decide after this new info that you are upset once again, and change your mind about resolution after you already agreed none was needed.

After a year??????

:shrug01:
 
Hi, my name is Eve Panis from Suncharmers, and I would like to jump in here as I am the (other person) that Jarrod Harvey was talking to the other day. I must add I am very upset that he included me in on this extremely unfair, and unjust accusation about Steve, at least on my part.

I do not know Jarrod Harvey , but did get an email from him a few days ago asking me if I would be willing to sell a hold back gecko of mine. I had said no, and we began a conversation about geckos. He told me he was looking for a male stud breeder as his died from a prolapse and that he had gotten it from Steve Sykes. He then said he lost a female super snow as well. I innocently with out knowing his history with Steve, answered back, I had a male mack raptor I got from Steve that prolapsed too ,,,,, BUT.... I said that Steve helped me through it, and it took some time but my male lived.

** And now I would like everyone to know that it was because of Steve and his knowledge that helped safe my gecko and that's what I tried to portray to Jarrod, MINE LIVED BECAUSE STEVE HELPED ME. I had also said I lost a female Super snow from him but that it was only because she was eggbound that she died. That Gecko I had a few years before that happened.

That was the extent of the conversation about Steve (on my part) I then talked about different geckos I was breeding this season.

** I ALSO JUST SENT STEVE MY EXACT CONVERSATION

I am sorry that I am in ANY way connected to this post except to say I LOVE... STEVE, have the utmost respect for him, and I own about 6 of his geckos, and will probably have more in the future. He has spent much of his time in the past years teaching me, helping me to become better and more knowledgable, and just being my friend. I WILL NOT turn my back on him, or our friendship , without stepping in here and telling it like it is.

I WILL NOT be a part in this,,,, I did not say anything to Jarrod except what is written here, and gave him no reason to think I had anything against Steve, or that I thought his animals were inferior.

I'm honored to have so many of Steves gorgeous geckos. And I'm happy to say my stunning male that prolapse after mating 2 years ago has (because of Steve ) gone on to create awesome offspring to this day!

I'm quite offended that what I said was taken and twisted to sound as if I had something against Steve or his geckos, this could not be further from the truth.
Steve knows this, and we are good! That's all that matters to me, besides letting you all know how devoted Steve is to his animals/ and customers, he takes great PRIDE in what he does, and so he should.

Eve
 
I have been herping since 1974, and these are leopard geckos. Their husbandry is not rocket science. And one could assume that someone spending $850 on leopards knows how to keep them, yes?
That would be a pretty foolish assumption, IMO. You may well have your :censored: together...if so, what's the big deal about typing out a few lines to show it?

I will offer the other persons name if and only if that person gives me permission.
This is somewhat irrelevant, since the other person has made an appearance, but that attitude doesn't fly here. If you don't want to name the person, don't bother telling their story. You aren't exactly new here, but maybe you should review the rules for posting.
 
Thanks Eve, Chrissy, and Jackie. Here's my story:

I hadn't heard anything from Jarrod since August 8, 2012, when he told me "So don't worry about anything, I'll just write this off as a loss". On April 5, 2013 I received a threatening email from him. I was offended by his threat, and felt I operated completely within the terms on my website. I will post the email chain that started on April 5, 2013, and then post the emails from the start of this in 2011 in a separate post.

____________________________________________________________________________
From: Jarrod Harvey <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 9:01 AM
Subject: Round Three...Hopefully the Final Round.
Steve,

I have just exchanged some emails with Eve at Suncharmers. I found out through innocent banter that she also had one of your super giants prolapse a hemipene, but was able to save hers. She also lost her super snow female from your line. Pretty weird, huh? My SG was dead in 45 days, in case you've forgotten. The super snow female consistently snapped at prey 1/4" short, lost interest in food, and slowly died. Eve's died egg bound, apparently.

You think this was all husbandry issues on her end, too? That is the way I was made to feel. Had nothing to do with weak genetics or anything like that, right? I really wish I could get over this, and just let it go...but now I am pissed all over again.

Look, this has went on and on and on and I am weary. I spent $850 of my buddies money with you and have two $100 females to show for it, both of which I almost lost. You insinuated they had worms. The fecals were negative. Now one keeps throwing infertile eggs, and the other is dropping slugs. At least they're laying something this year.

I'm gonna make this simple. I am not a vindictive person, and I apologize for how this sounds and seems, but I would like a nice super giant male or female sent to me, or I am just going to share my story on the forums. Your reputation is pretty solid, and I have no desire to hurt you...I just want what is fair. I believe this to be fair.

If there are more stories like mine and Eve's, we'll find out pretty quick. And if these stories exist, then if nothin else, I find it necessary to get this dialog started, and to help others from making the same mistake. If mine and Eve's experiences are isolated flukes...just tell me to get screwed, cause you have nothing to worry about, right?

I feel slighted, and I hate the way this sounds, and again, I am sorry...but I am serious about this. I want another super giant.

I am sorry and regret that it has come to this.

Send me SGMSTM1 and I'll be happy, and we can call this done.

Regards,

Jarrod Harvey
453 Yorktown Lane
Avon, IN 46123
____________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Sykes <[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: Round Three...Hopefully the Final Round.
Jarrod,

I have a hard time wanting to help someone that is now threatening me. I do take offense to that. I looked back through the emails you send to me over the years to refresh my memory. I had offered to help you out with a deal on something in an email I sent on July 17, 2012, but I now rescind that. I don't want you to have animals of my stock for fear you will have another problem and then try to blame it on me or my bloodlines. You did say on August 8, 2012 "So don't worry about anything, I'll just write this off as a loss.", so I assumed this issue was complete.

I have operated completely within the terms of sale that I have had on my website since the start of my website in 2002. I offer a 30 day health guarantee, which is one of the best in the business. I have tried to help you with all your questions. I guarantee to my customers that they get healthy geckos from me. You told me on June 30, 2011 that "Steve...they made it, and they look awesome". I did not hear from you with any problems during the 30 day period that I guarantee their health. On August 25, 2011 you emailed to tell me about the infected hemipene. On August 25, 2011 you also said "I know this has nothing to do with you or the health of the geckos at arrival...they were perfect. I am wondering if the first breeding might have something to do with it."

I never provide any guarantee that geckos will mate successfully, produce fertile eggs, or that you will get a return on your investment. Breeding geckos is risky to their health. After the 30 day period that I guarantee their health, I can't guarantee anything. Male do prolapse, females do have egg binding problems, females lay infertile eggs, breeding projects don't work out as planned - those are the problems of being a gecko breeder, and I have my share of those disappointments as well.

Regards,

Steve
www.geckosetc.com
____________________________________________________________________________
From: Jarrod Harvey <[email protected]>
To: Steve Sykes <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: Round Three...Hopefully the Final Round.

They all looked awesome when I got them...Yes. That is irrelevant.
Yes, I said i would write it off as a loss. I tried to be nice about this for a long time. You were given ample opportunity to do the right thing. Now you rescind it? Rescind WHAT? That's funny.
Yesterday I discover that someone else has had the exact same issue as me. You can rationalize this all you want. I figured this is the response I would get.
Just remember you could have diffused this for the price of one gecko. We'll soon know if anyone else has had issues.

Sent from my iPhone
____________________________________________________________________________

I did not respond to his email, but 5 hours later he sent me another friendly email (below).
____________________________________________________________________________
From: Jarrod Harvey <[email protected]>
To: Steve Sykes <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: Round Three...Hopefully the Final Round.

I love how you're the victim, too. That's awesome. Sitting on more damn geckos than anyone needs, and won't come off of one to save a customer.
Everything you said was true. I had written it off, and had been as nice and understanding as a guy could be until I spoke with Eve. She had the same issues, with the same morphs, from the same guy. I noticed you left that out of your response.
My super snow female couldn't target prey. How you fed her I don't know, but all I know is something was wrong.
It is obvious that I'll get nowhere with you, even with this new info, so I'll just have to warn anyone I can about rolling the dice with your lines.
I bought three yellow terribilis from a guy about four years ago, another species that has been line bred to beat the band, and when one developed a crooked spine, and the other a big goiter, he did the same thing..."couldn't be MY line." Thing is, the third one is fine and thriving.
The forums are filled with a bunch of passive aggressive liberal pukes that only want to BE smart asses, they don't want anyone ELSE making waves, such is the liberal way, no? It is obvious that I'll get nowhere with them either.
So I'm done, and I mean it this time.
You enjoy your life, Steve


Sent from my iPhone
____________________________________________________________________________
 
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