Inquiry Genefreak339 / Michael Harshbarger

[Genefreak339]

ok, this is a long tread, as such I have not read the whole thing, but from the sound of it, things were resolved. But anyway, I bought a female black pastel from Micheal and she is doing ok. She is somewhat of a hard feeder, but doing ok for now. I contacted Micheal about the problem, and he told me if anything happened to her he would make it right, and to keep him updated. So I would recommend Genefreak, even though he kinda came out of nowhere.

Thanks and Im glad the little one is eating for you now. Maybe she just needed to settle in but as a said in the email keep me posted.

Thanks again
-Michael

 

[Dbz4246]

Thanks and Im glad the little one is eating for you now. Maybe she just needed to settle in but as a said in the email keep me posted.

Thanks again
-Michael

Yup, I will. She is doing a lot better now, and is even responding better to handling since I first recieved her.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

I am going to also post this here, so that it isn't missed by people researching GeneFreak339 / Michael Harshbarger without seeing the connection to the Jerry Boyd thread.

Here's where I get skeptical:

You have multiple connections to Jerry Boyd that you are incapable and unwilling to explain, and cannot dispute with any reasonable or logical answer. They are more than just random or "coincidental". "Jerry Boyd" has already scammed someone, thus if you are him (which based on the evidence as pointed out, you are indeed), YOU scammed someone.

The bigger red flag for me is that you have been proven (and admitted) to being an animal flipper. You get in animals from God knows who and turn them right around and sell them. You also sell animals before they even enter your possession, thus having animals entering and leaving your facility left and right, from all sorts of places and sellers, without ANY kind of proper 60-90 day quarantine, without keeping them separate from each other. If you have animals coming in from 10 different breeders, each group would need to be kept in a separate quarantine space and I highly doubt you have that. You are risking your customers' collections and livelihood by selling unquarantined animals that potentially carry infectious bacteria and viruses.

2 years ago, I bought a snake from a douchebag just like you. He had some shady comments about him but nothing really solid that could be "proven". Come to find out, an adult female het clown that he sold to me as being one of his own, was actually one of many that he was flipping left and right for profit, and had been kept in with HUNDREDS of imports all in the same room. This animal came in sick with RI symptoms, and normal antibiotic treatments did nothing. Within mere days, this infection spread and killed another of my animals. It kept spreading and spreading, and over the course of months, I spent THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS on antibiotics, antivirals, necropsies, tissue samples, blood tests, even experimental vaccines imported from Germany with a special FDA permit obtained by my reptile vet. NOTHING worked. Turns out this was a new virus that the reptile community had never seen before. 3 different vets worked on the bodies and the tissue samples and couldn't identify it, including one of the leading herpetologists at the University of Florida veterinary school. Samples were sent to the CDC and even they couldn't identify it. I lost half my collection of morphs, and ended up having to euthanize EVERY SINGLE ANIMAL I owned, including my original pet and a $4,000 genetic stripe ball python that I had on breeding loan. Then I had to burn and destroy all the racks, tubs, equipment, etc. I lost over $20,000 in vet bills, lab work, animals, and equipment, and my hobby that I worked hard for years to build was destroyed. All because of an animal flipper like yourself.

I only recently started coming back to reptile forums, talking with old friends from the hobby. The wounds still hurt, but they have healed, and I am starting over again, although nowhere near the capacity I was before. And to my HORROR, I come back to find another scammer like yourself luring people into buying animals with no histories, no quarantine, and without honest representation (ones you lie about and ones you don't even own yet). I feel sick to my stomach over the thought of someone else going through what I went through, all because YOU see dollar signs and want to flip and sell ball python morphs to unsuspecting inexperienced buyers, including deformed ones and ones you don't own, thus haven't observed and deemed healthy before selling. That is ASKING for disease spread.

 

[Jenber]

You must spread some karma around before giving it to JenHarrison again

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

I forgot to mention that 3 other people also came forward that suffered the same virus devastation from the same seller, one being a veterinarian in Colorado. God knows how many others there were, because as soon as he felt the heat, the seller started liquidating his snakes at rock-bottom prices and through shady deals, EXACTLY the way you are doing now with this whole "I ship before you pay" thing. There are probably dozens of other people that ended up with this virus that never came forward, people you very well could be buying from and trading with right now. You could be spreading this virus (or any other virus) further by having infected animals entering and leaving left and right without any kind of quarantine, and selling animals without even posessing them, thus not observing for any symptoms of illness or disease before you ship them out to your unsuspecting customers. Hell, you admitted to not even seeing a PHYSICAL DEFORMITY on TWO SEPARATE SNAKES before selling them. How on Earth are you going to notice the first symptoms of viral respiratory infection such as wheezing, or the first few times an IBD-infected animal twists and turns and flips over?

This is how collections and dreams are destroyed, people. This is how animals suffer and die excrutiating, horrible deaths. Because selfish people treat them as if they are poker chips to be bought, sold, and traded at will without any regard for proper quarantine, any regard for the animal's health, or any regard for the overall genetic strength of the population and hobby as a whole. Anyone that flips animals so carelessly without quarantine or observation, and is oblivious to glaring signs of deformity, is someone to be avoided like the plague. PLEASE. Take it from me. I had to learn the hard way.

 

[Genefreak339]

I forgot to mention that 3 other people also came forward that suffered the same virus devastation from the same seller, one being a veterinarian in Colorado. God knows how many others there were, because as soon as he felt the heat, the seller started liquidating his snakes at rock-bottom prices and through shady deals, EXACTLY the way you are doing now with this whole "I ship before you pay" thing. There are probably dozens of other people that ended up with this virus that never came forward, people you very well could be buying from and trading with right now. You could be spreading this virus (or any other virus) further by having infected animals entering and leaving left and right without any kind of quarantine, and selling animals without even posessing them, thus not observing for any symptoms of illness or disease before you ship them out to your unsuspecting customers. Hell, you admitted to not even seeing a PHYSICAL DEFORMITY on TWO SEPARATE SNAKES before selling them. How on Earth are you going to notice the first symptoms of viral respiratory infection such as wheezing, or the first few times an IBD-infected animal twists and turns and flips over?


This is how collections and dreams are destroyed, people. This is how animals suffer and die excrutiating, horrible deaths. Because selfish people treat them as if they are poker chips to be bought, sold, and traded at will without any regard for proper quarantine, any regard for the animal's health, or any regard for the overall genetic strength of the population and hobby as a whole. Anyone that flips animals so carelessly without quarantine or observation, and is oblivious to glaring signs of deformity, is someone to be avoided like the plague. PLEASE. Take it from me. I had to learn the hard way.

You know I read all this and hear you bashing me about flipping snakes and not quarantining them. How do you know that I dont quarantine my snakes I get in? You know it funny you sit here, try to act like my collection is passing around infections (which it clearly is not), call me a douchebag and yadayada... .HMMM maybe if YOU practiced proper quarante YOU wouldnt have had that virus spread to YOUR whole collection dont ya think???

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

I am not the topic of this thread, but I will respond with this. If you had been around back when it all happened and followed it step-by-step as many people here did throughout the months it went on before I finally euthanized everything, you would know that I DID quarantine my animals in separate rooms and it DID NOT STOP IT. If I had access to a separate building, I would have done that, but 90% of people in this hobby run things out of their homes. It was determined to be most likely airborne by every vet working on the case. In a 3-bedroom house, there's only one ventilation system. And the veterinarian that came forward with infected animals also quarantined the acquisitions in separate rooms with no contact and it did nothing to stop it. Regardless, everyone in this hobby learned a very important lesson from my loss, and that is QUARANTINE QUARANTINE QUARANTINE, to the strictest extent possible.

So you're saying that when you sell an animal that is in someone else's possession (i.e. the snake that was listed on ProExotics' website that you were trying to sell before you even had it), and someone pays you for it, you then purchase the animal from the original seller, have it shipped to your location, then make your buyer wait 60 days while you properly quarantine this animal and screen it for disease before shipping it out to them? If this is the case, and you can prove it, I will eat my words.

But, considering that you sold 2 pastels with kinks and deformities without even noticing, I find that to be highly unlikely.

 

[deborahbroadus]

You know I read all this and hear you bashing me about flipping snakes and not quarantining them. How do you know that I dont quarantine my snakes I get in? You know it funny you sit here, try to act like my collection is passing around infections (which it clearly is not), call me a douchebag and yadayada... .HMMM maybe if YOU practiced proper quarante YOU wouldnt have had that virus spread to YOUR whole collection dont ya think???

Micheal, perhaps you forget the thread where you were asked to post pictures of your racks and quarantine area? NO quarantine area was ever posted. I can post a picture of my quarantine area (a shed in the back for animals that I don't know, and the kitchen for trusted breeders with seperate utensiles and aspen in both areas).

You have waited too long to post this picture, it would no longer ease MY mind if you did post a picture, but the noobs just wanting a CHEAP morph would probably be pacified.

Anyway, I now have a closed collection again and will not be buying because of different incidents that have come to light in several areas, for example the Ashley thread where IBD was confirmed in the collection, and we don't know who all were her customers but for two or three people. As a matter of fact, I am even careful who I sell to and I keep records.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

So you're saying that when you sell an animal that is in someone else's possession (i.e. the snake that was listed on ProExotics' website that you were trying to sell before you even had it), and someone pays you for it, you then purchase the animal from the original seller, have it shipped to your location, then make your buyer wait 60 days while you properly quarantine this animal and screen it for disease before shipping it out to the buyer?

This is what I am most interested in finding out, because this is what worries me. He appears to be a revolving door of animals and that is ASKING for trouble.

 

[Genefreak339]

Quarantine Cages:



They might not be the prettiest but they serve there purpose.

Micheal, perhaps you forget the thread where you were asked to post pictures of your racks and quarantine area? NO quarantine area was ever posted. I can post a picture of my quarantine area (a shed in the back for animals that I don't know, and the kitchen for trusted breeders with seperate utensiles and aspen in both areas).

You have waited too long to post this picture, it would no longer ease MY mind if you did post a picture, but the noobs just wanting a CHEAP morph would probably be pacified.

Anyway, I now have a closed collection again and will not be buying because of different incidents that have come to light in several areas, for example the Ashley thread where IBD was confirmed in the collection, and we don't know who all were her customers but for two or three people. As a matter of fact, I am even careful who I sell to and I keep records.

 

[Southern Wolf]

your a little late on providing photos. This was asked for months ago. With the amount of animals your flipping... I hope you have more that 6 measley cages.

 

[mattpadrnos]

I have only known Michael for three weeks and he has been great. Michael has been completely up front with me and has delivered three of six female breeder morph snakes to me so far. Everything has been according to our agreement and he is very accommodating. He does not usually answer the phone or email during the day because he works. But I was always able to get a reply from him immediately through text or by phone after work.

 

[snowgyre]

Michael, thank you for posting the picture. Can you please step back a bit and take a picture of the entire room? Since that cage is against the wall, it's difficult to see if the quarantined animals are in the same room or not, and in my experience, separating animals into different rooms is the best way to achieve quarantine (although in certain extreme infectious cases, it's not adequate, Jennifer, I'm so sorry for what you went though). It's far too easy to crop photos to show what you want people to see instead of what is actually there.

I think it's most fair to potential customers to see your quarantine setup and then allow them to make the decision to purchase (or not) your animals, depending upon what they see. Even if some may potentially disagree with your quarantine strategy, at least then they can't accuse you of being dishonest. Thanks for your time.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Vanessa, IBD, a highly contagious and fatal disease in boids, is also highly thought to be airborne. That has come from the leading authority on IBD, Dr. Elliot Jacobson at the University of Florida. Paroxymovirus is also airborne, as most likely was the virus I experienced. Thus when working with any boas and pythons, separate room quarantine is not enough, especially when it comes to brokers/flippers that are a revolving door of animals coming in and out from various locations and people -- which is what Michael has stated he is.

Michael, you never responded to my question. When you pre-sell an animal that you do not even own yet (such as the caramel spider listed on the Pro Exotics website), do you take the buyer's money, then recieve the animal and properly quarantine it for 30-60 days and make your buyer wait for it? Do you ensure that it is eating properly and healthy during said quarantine? Or do you recieve it and flip it right back out the door? If the latter, how do you know the animal is not sick or infected with something that you are then passing on to your customers? How do you know the animal is healthy and feeding?

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Paroxymovirus is also airborne, as most likely was the virus I experienced.

This should have read: "Paroxymovirus is also airborne, as is the unknown virus I experienced (most likely)." The first way I wrote it seems to imply that Paroxymovirus IS the virus that I experienced, which it was not. Potentially related, but different. The point was that multiple viruses are known and thought to be airborne, which creates a much more valid reason for separate location quarantine, even if it is a shed or a garage.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Michael, thank you for posting the picture. Can you please step back a bit and take a picture of the entire room? Since that cage is against the wall, it's difficult to see if the quarantined animals are in the same room or not, and in my experience, separating animals into different rooms is the best way to achieve quarantine (although in certain extreme infectious cases, it's not adequate, Jennifer, I'm so sorry for what you went though). It's far too easy to crop photos to show what you want people to see instead of what is actually there.

I think it's most fair to potential customers to see your quarantine setup and then allow them to make the decision to purchase (or not) your animals, depending upon what they see. Even if some may potentially disagree with your quarantine strategy, at least then they can't accuse you of being dishonest. Thanks for your time.

That's assuming that they ARE his cages and not a picture from a friend's house, or one found on the internet. Lots of us have posted pictures of our set ups at one time or another.

 

[snowgyre]

Jennifer, yep, I knew those diseases were really bad, but I figured learning more of his quarantine procedures would be beneficial for all parties involved (except, perhaps Michael if he either doesn't have proper quarantine procedures or chooses to be dishonest). Deborah, you raise a good point, but I would still like to see any pictures Michael could provide of the entire room.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

That's assuming that they ARE his cages and not a picture from a friend's house, or one found on the internet. Lots of us have posted pictures of our set ups at one time or another.

Simple way to solve that. Have him tape a sign on the cages in the picture, using white computer paper with black Sharpie marker that has today's date and his name.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Simple way to solve that. Have him tape a sign on the cages in the picture, using white computer paper with black Sharpie marker that has today's date and his name.

and his picture holding the paper with the date..why make it easy to use any photo software.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Very good point. Would help to show his ID.