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Getting a baby sulcata, need some pointers.

maggie22195

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Hey guys so I am getting a baby sulcata and I can't wait! I have some questions though,

we keep our AC set anywhere from 70 when we are home and 80 when we leave for school, is this ok?
I will be keeping the hatchling in a 32 quart bin for the next couple of months, is this also ok?
I was also wondering if you would tell me about what main greens their diet should consist of. What should I get when I go to the store? I read about kale and others.
How old can they be before I start putting them outside? Are the arizona temps too extreme for youngins?
Any other information would be greatly appreciated. I have done plenty of research and the only reason I am asking these things is because I want the information from you guys. Thank you! :)
 
we keep our AC set anywhere from 70 when we are home and 80 when we leave for school, is this ok? I will be keeping the hatchling in a 32 quart bin for the next couple of months, is this also ok?

I would start out a little larger, perhaps just with the biggest storage container (one for say, a folded-up christmas tree). You definitely need to affix some kind of lighting/heating on it or above it. Like most chelonians, sulcata tortoises need UV lighting and a basking area of around 100'F. Just leaving them in a bin with no light/heat at room temps is not an ideal habitat.

I was also wondering if you would tell me about what main greens their diet should consist of. What should I get when I go to the store? I read about kale and others.

Most of their diet should be grasses and hay (definitely 50% or more). Babies can be a little finicky and don't really go for the tougher hays. I use orchard hay since its softer and easier to crunch up. IN fact, I kinda ground it up into a "dust/powder" mix and leave it in a shallow dish in his enclosure 24/7 and he nibbles on it throughout the day.

Then I offer shredded/grated vegetables (zucchini, squash, carrots, apples), with a good portion of dark/ leafy greens (Kale, bok choy, etc.). Kale is actually no very flavorful, so unless you mix it up good with the rest of their veggies, they may not touch it. Mine loves bok choy.

The rest (maybe 10% or less) can be other fruits, and maybe a sprinkling of commercial diet. The best commercial food out there for tortoises is Mazuri tortoise diet. The second best is probably the grassland tortoise diet from ZooMed. All others really have too much protein for sulcatas, and if offered excessively, can lead to pyramiding (which can also be caused by poor lighting!).

How old can they be before I start putting them outside? Are the arizona temps too extreme for youngins?

As long as the enclosure is secure, and they cannot dig or climb out, I would think anytime is fine! Mine is still only 5" long, and my indoor enclosure is pretty spacious, so he pretty much lives in there. I can keep an eye on him better. But on the weekends when I'm not working, I have a rough, temporary pen (mainly a rectangle of cinderblocks) that he goes outside in for most of the day.

As long as you have a few good spots that are shaded well, and a small pool/pan of water that they can access, I would think that Arizona's climate should be fine.

Any other information would be greatly appreciated. I have done plenty of research and the only reason I am asking these things is because I want the information from you guys. Thank you! :)

Despite the stereotype of being "slow" and long-lived, they can move and grow faster than you think! Even if you have a small one, go ahead and start planning for the permanent outdoor enclosure soon. When outdoors, they certainly have a tendency for digging, and so you must account for this by making the walls at least 12" into the ground (all but the most determined typically lose interest at that depth). Also keep in mind that they usually dig to find shelter and get away from the sun, so if you provide plenty of artificial "houses" and shaded areas, the digging urge is usually diminished.

Check out Tyler Stewart's website for more info (www.TortoiseSupply.com). He breeds a lot of species out in Las vegas, so I imagine his climate is not far off from yours.
 
I would start out a little larger, perhaps just with the biggest storage container (one for say, a folded-up christmas tree). You definitely need to affix some kind of lighting/heating on it or above it. Like most chelonians, sulcata tortoises need UV lighting and a basking area of around 100'F. Just leaving them in a bin with no light/heat at room temps is not an ideal habitat.



Most of their diet should be grasses and hay (definitely 50% or more). Babies can be a little finicky and don't really go for the tougher hays. I use orchard hay since its softer and easier to crunch up. IN fact, I kinda ground it up into a "dust/powder" mix and leave it in a shallow dish in his enclosure 24/7 and he nibbles on it throughout the day.

Then I offer shredded/grated vegetables (zucchini, squash, carrots, apples), with a good portion of dark/ leafy greens (Kale, bok choy, etc.). Kale is actually no very flavorful, so unless you mix it up good with the rest of their veggies, they may not touch it. Mine loves bok choy.

The rest (maybe 10% or less) can be other fruits, and maybe a sprinkling of commercial diet. The best commercial food out there for tortoises is Mazuri tortoise diet. The second best is probably the grassland tortoise diet from ZooMed. All others really have too much protein for sulcatas, and if offered excessively, can lead to pyramiding (which can also be caused by poor lighting!).



As long as the enclosure is secure, and they cannot dig or climb out, I would think anytime is fine! Mine is still only 5" long, and my indoor enclosure is pretty spacious, so he pretty much lives in there. I can keep an eye on him better. But on the weekends when I'm not working, I have a rough, temporary pen (mainly a rectangle of cinderblocks) that he goes outside in for most of the day.

As long as you have a few good spots that are shaded well, and a small pool/pan of water that they can access, I would think that Arizona's climate should be fine.



Despite the stereotype of being "slow" and long-lived, they can move and grow faster than you think! Even if you have a small one, go ahead and start planning for the permanent outdoor enclosure soon. When outdoors, they certainly have a tendency for digging, and so you must account for this by making the walls at least 12" into the ground (all but the most determined typically lose interest at that depth). Also keep in mind that they usually dig to find shelter and get away from the sun, so if you provide plenty of artificial "houses" and shaded areas, the digging urge is usually diminished.

Check out Tyler Stewart's website for more info (www.TortoiseSupply.com). He breeds a lot of species out in Las vegas, so I imagine his climate is not far off from yours.[/QUOTE/]

Thank you so much for your helpful information!
And with the room temperature I ment just in general. I am going to have a heat lamp and UVB light for him during the day, but at night I am not sure what to do... should I get a heating pad for night time?
 
should I get a heating pad for night time?

Unless your house gets below 65'F at night (which I doubt it does), I wouldn't bother. Personally, I only use undertank heat pads for snakes.
 
FWIW, there's a lot of new information/ways of thinking with Sulcatas. For one, the latest (and, so far, proving out to be most accurate) theory on pyramiding ties back to humidity/hydration, rather than protein--with the apparent cause being too little (dry climate/dehydration). Make sure you always have water available, and soak often. Dehydration has more pitfalls than just pyramiding--it may also cause renal failure and eventually death. Some theorize that the common "failure to thrive syndrome" in Sulcatas may just be mass renal failure from most being kept so dry and not having consistent access to water. You may even think about keeping his habitat humid, but at the very least do NOT keep it bone dry and don't use any of the moisture-sucking substrates like hay or rabbit pellets as bedding--that will only cause problems.

As far as temps are concerned, Michael is correct: 100F (or a little higher) basking is ideal. As for cool side/night temps, you'll want them a bit higher to avoid illness, especially if you opt to keep yours at all humid. Ideally, you'd keep the coolest area at about 80-85F at all times. Considering the overall fluctuation in your house temps, a Ceramic Heat Emitter on a thermostat may be the best bet for keeping the enclosure outside of the basking spot up to temp.

As far as feeding, as has been stated, hatchlings rarely go for grasses/hays, which is a sulcata's primary diet. Good greens to use include collard, turnip, mustard, and dandelion greens. Watercress, Endive, and Escarole are also good. Kale can be offered every now and then for variety, but be careful--this one is quite high in oxalates (binds with calcium so they can't absorb it, also makes urates quite gritty and sometimes difficult to pass) and I have heard of tortoises becoming addicted and not wanting anything else. Lettuce can be added, sparingly, for variety's sake, but it's not terribly nutritious and is more of a filler food. Cactus pad (opuntia) is fantastic for these guys. Most tortoise keepers limit veggies, but mushrooms and squash are two great ones as treats.

As far as hay is concerned, to get it into his diet, you can try taking a softer hay, chopping it up very small, and sprinkling it over his food (a quick mist with water will make sure it sticks).

Avoid fruit. I'd even go so far as to say never feed it. It doesn't do any good that can't be found in better food options. It upsets their tummies, causes diarrhea, and if there's a parasitic infection brewing, fruit can kick it in to full force.

There are also greens to avoid. Cabbage, bok choy, and most other members of the cabbage family (collards are an exception here) should be very limited if not outright avoided. Stay away from spinach. There are a couple others--but those are the main ones to remember when you're browsing the produce aisle.

I would highly recommend browsing the various Sulcata care discussions, forum, and care sheet over at http://tortoiseforum.org. TFO members are very open about different care styles and discussions thereof, so you should be able to find lots of information about many different options of how you can care for your Sullie. I'd track some of the specific ones down for you, but I'm having a hard enough time typing with an index finger out of commission (beardie bite, fun...). Haha. (On that same note, if there are weird typos, that's why...) :p

Anyway, I hope this post is helpful to you. Do make sure you're ready for the commitment--Sulcatas are most definitely unique. Large (and fast-growing if cared for right!), will bulldoze anything in their path, and definitely not one to get on a whim or just 'cause you think the idea of a pet giant tortoise is pretty cool. Research, research, research! If you decide to check out Tortoise Forum, look up the Bob threads by maggie3fan--very well-written accounts of the "adventures" that come with living with a 100 lb Sulcata. :)
 
Good post, Taylor. Thanks for hitting on the humidity/dehydration thing.

I didn't know bok choy was that bad for them. I'll try to limit that for my tortoise in the future.
 
FWIW, there's a lot of new information/ways of thinking with Sulcatas. For one, the latest (and, so far, proving out to be most accurate) theory on pyramiding ties back to humidity/hydration, rather than protein--with the apparent cause being too little (dry climate/dehydration). Make sure you always have water available, and soak often. Dehydration has more pitfalls than just pyramiding--it may also cause renal failure and eventually death. Some theorize that the common "failure to thrive syndrome" in Sulcatas may just be mass renal failure from most being kept so dry and not having consistent access to water. You may even think about keeping his habitat humid, but at the very least do NOT keep it bone dry and don't use any of the moisture-sucking substrates like hay or rabbit pellets as bedding--that will only cause problems.

As far as temps are concerned, Michael is correct: 100F (or a little higher) basking is ideal. As for cool side/night temps, you'll want them a bit higher to avoid illness, especially if you opt to keep yours at all humid. Ideally, you'd keep the coolest area at about 80-85F at all times. Considering the overall fluctuation in your house temps, a Ceramic Heat Emitter on a thermostat may be the best bet for keeping the enclosure outside of the basking spot up to temp.

As far as feeding, as has been stated, hatchlings rarely go for grasses/hays, which is a sulcata's primary diet. Good greens to use include collard, turnip, mustard, and dandelion greens. Watercress, Endive, and Escarole are also good. Kale can be offered every now and then for variety, but be careful--this one is quite high in oxalates (binds with calcium so they can't absorb it, also makes urates quite gritty and sometimes difficult to pass) and I have heard of tortoises becoming addicted and not wanting anything else. Lettuce can be added, sparingly, for variety's sake, but it's not terribly nutritious and is more of a filler food. Cactus pad (opuntia) is fantastic for these guys. Most tortoise keepers limit veggies, but mushrooms and squash are two great ones as treats.

As far as hay is concerned, to get it into his diet, you can try taking a softer hay, chopping it up very small, and sprinkling it over his food (a quick mist with water will make sure it sticks).

Avoid fruit. I'd even go so far as to say never feed it. It doesn't do any good that can't be found in better food options. It upsets their tummies, causes diarrhea, and if there's a parasitic infection brewing, fruit can kick it in to full force.

There are also greens to avoid. Cabbage, bok choy, and most other members of the cabbage family (collards are an exception here) should be very limited if not outright avoided. Stay away from spinach. There are a couple others--but those are the main ones to remember when you're browsing the produce aisle.

I would highly recommend browsing the various Sulcata care discussions, forum, and care sheet over at http://tortoiseforum.org. TFO members are very open about different care styles and discussions thereof, so you should be able to find lots of information about many different options of how you can care for your Sullie. I'd track some of the specific ones down for you, but I'm having a hard enough time typing with an index finger out of commission (beardie bite, fun...). Haha. (On that same note, if there are weird typos, that's why...) :p

Anyway, I hope this post is helpful to you. Do make sure you're ready for the commitment--Sulcatas are most definitely unique. Large (and fast-growing if cared for right!), will bulldoze anything in their path, and definitely not one to get on a whim or just 'cause you think the idea of a pet giant tortoise is pretty cool. Research, research, research! If you decide to check out Tortoise Forum, look up the Bob threads by maggie3fan--very well-written accounts of the "adventures" that come with living with a 100 lb Sulcata. :)


This post has been a great deal of help, thank you so much!
I understand that most people get babies that are so adorable then realize how big they grow but I am aware that they get very large and I am prepared for that. We have a yard big enough to house an adult sulcata for when he/she is older.
To help avoid pyramiding can I soak him/her once or twice a week?
 
Thanks, Michael. And, yes, bok choy is one of those to avoid. I've actually taken to using "safe foods" type lists designed for bearded dragons and iguanas to help with figuring out what greens are good and what ones are not so good. There are a few things you need to remember when looking at them, mainly the fruit issue as fruit isn't as bad for igs and beardies as it is for torts, but overall they're pretty good references for the purpose. Greenigsociety.org's Food Chart is a good one, as is Beautifuldragons.com's Nutrition chart.

Maggie, great to hear you're prepared for the adult size! As for soaking, I'd say do it once a day to every other day. Hatchlings are VERY prone to dehydration, and you want to do all you can to prevent it. Once a week soaks aren't really going to ensure he's still drinking and soaking on his own the rest of the week. By forcing him into the water for 15-30 mins a day, you at least make sure he's getting enough water even if he isn't using his water dish as he should.
 
Thanks, Michael. And, yes, bok choy is one of those to avoid. I've actually taken to using "safe foods" type lists designed for bearded dragons and iguanas to help with figuring out what greens are good and what ones are not so good. There are a few things you need to remember when looking at them, mainly the fruit issue as fruit isn't as bad for igs and beardies as it is for torts, but overall they're pretty good references for the purpose. Greenigsociety.org's Food Chart is a good one, as is Beautifuldragons.com's Nutrition chart.

Maggie, great to hear you're prepared for the adult size! As for soaking, I'd say do it once a day to every other day. Hatchlings are VERY prone to dehydration, and you want to do all you can to prevent it. Once a week soaks aren't really going to ensure he's still drinking and soaking on his own the rest of the week. By forcing him into the water for 15-30 mins a day, you at least make sure he's getting enough water even if he isn't using his water dish as he should.

How high should I fill the water? and how warm should it be?
 
To, or just slightly above, where his carapace (top shell) and plastron (bottom shell) meet--the "bridge." On my 2.5" juvie leopard tort, this usually ends up being around 1/2 an inch. As for temp, I'd try to keep it around 85-90F. I usually start at 95-ish, then stick the tub under his basking lamp and "experiment" with where to put it in relation to the lamp until it's keeping a steady mid to upper 80s in temp. Then just leave it for 20 minutes or so.
 
To, or just slightly above, where his carapace (top shell) and plastron (bottom shell) meet--the "bridge." On my 2.5" juvie leopard tort, this usually ends up being around 1/2 an inch. As for temp, I'd try to keep it around 85-90F. I usually start at 95-ish, then stick the tub under his basking lamp and "experiment" with where to put it in relation to the lamp until it's keeping a steady mid to upper 80s in temp. Then just leave it for 20 minutes or so.

Ok, that sounds good! :)
 
I just wanted to give you another very good forum to check out, http://tortoiseinfo.org/. It is a fairly new forum, but most of the members are breeders and have been keeping tortoises for a long time.

It does have excellent info on sulcatas & several other species. The folks over there are very helpful & friendly. Good luck with your new little one, I look forward to seeing pics of it.
 
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