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getting " envenomated " can get you ........

Vinny, there is a difference (in My oppinion) between lying and not being entirely truthful. Omition of facts can be concidered as not being entirely truthful.
He said "to one extent or another". and "They are normally not one of the dominant components and are usually over-looked clinically." Because they are not present in a strong enough form to cause paralysis.
This is not proof as to the EFFECTS of the venom you recieved. For the envenomation to have paralytic effects, I am quite certain it would have been widely known by now that adamanteus is a carrier of neuro's. Such as C. scutulatis, and helleri. This is widely known, and is why they are referred to as mojavetoxins. A mixture of the two.
The point I am driving at is Florida has a lot of adamanteus bites each year, and all have similar effects to hemotoxic properties. I have yet to read anything about paralysis from this ssp.
Granted, I am still looking. I do not normaly spend this much time at the computor. If it's there, I will most likely find it.
Thanks for the quote above, I always enjoy reading Dr. Fry's statements.

Rick
 
Hi mate

Sorry to hear about your bite. Sounds like a nasty one. From what you've described, sounds like the venom had a fair concentration of neurotoxins similar to mojavetoxins. Neurotoxins in Crotalus are grossly underappreciated. All Crotalus, and all pitviper and most viper, venoms have neurotoxins in them to one extent or another. They are normally not one of the dominant components and are usually over-looked clinically.

Did you recieve antivenom? If so, its important that the doctor gives you a ten day prescription for predinisolone. This is a corticosteroid that helps prevent serum sickness, a delayed reaction to the antivenom that can produce very uncomfortable flu-like symptoms such as achy joints and nausea.

All the best
Bryan
 
It is common knowledge that venom is composed of both neurotoxins and hemotoxins. It is also commonly accepted that, with few exceptions, Crotalid venom has a decidedly greater hemotoxic effect (*note - that does not say that they do not have neurotoxic effect). Even within those exceptions, there are variations according to the particular range of a given animal (ie 2 designations for Mojaves). The quote that you have attributed to Dr Fry
From what you've described, sounds like the venom had a fair concentration of neurotoxins
Click to expand...
does not PROVE your case. It was a statement based on your description...an educated guess about unexpected symptoms/presentation. I am not supporting or disputing your statement regarding C. adamanteus, as I understand that my not having heard it before does not make it untrue- NY has too many regulations for me to continue being involved with hots, and I have not been doing formal education, so I am admittedly out of the loop. Still, using a vague and generic statement like that to justify your specific claims won't work for anybody here. Funny thing is, we aren't asking you to "prove" it. What was asked was where you found the information. And that is only to save us the considerable time we might spend searching for it...
 
Vinny D said:
so dr. fry is lying i guess
Click to expand...
No one said Dr Fry is lying. Do not start twisting other people's words if you do not like it being done to you. reread Rick's post.

Vinny D said:
ohh and yes i kissed her all the time. right grow up
Click to expand...
According to Steve, your mother called him saying that you were kissing your snakes. That is why it was brought up.


I am now going to offer you some advice. From the time you have been bite from the rattlesnake bite, it has been around two years. My guess is that you are now starting to get into venomous a whole lot more and then some, especially when you move out. I see a dangerous pattern that lies ahead for in your future. Not because you own "hots" but because you let your mind wander when you are around them. This is a bad position to be in, certainly when you decide to change the water bowl out.

You allow yourself to be careless when you should not be. I have read way too many obituaries about venomous snake keepers and herpetologists alike who have died from a venomous bite. The last thing we need is to read yours. You have been in a serious position that almost cost your life, can you afford to allow that to happen again? Can you afford the medical bills when you are out on your own?

You can continue to love and admire them, no problems with that, but will you allow one to take your life?
 
Vinny D said:
Well if you know anything about easterns. you would know that their their is a fake line through gainsville,fla. easterns south of that line are strogly neuotoxic and ssp. north of the line are mostly hemotoxic. do your reaserch before saying anything..
Click to expand...
This is what you said. You said there is a line and that EDB's south of this line are strogly neuotoxic (sic). That's nowhere near what Dr. Fry said in his e-mail. He is simply noting that some Crotalus have "dual" properties, which is well known, just as some venomous snakes that are considered neurotoxic have some properties that can cause tissue damage. There is a big difference in Dr Fry noting these dual properties, and you stating there are EDB that are strongly neurotoxic, and caused paralysis.
 
i really respect what you said junkyard. and i have learned my lessons beleve me. i will never sick my hands in a hot gave while the snake is in it ever again. like i said i havent been tagged while handling a got with tongs, hooks, ect. for over a decade. i do see where you are comming from and i do appreate your concern. and i see exactly what you are saying about when i move out and get another hot. yes i most likely will but, i have all my tools and i am going to use them. i really apperate your concern for my life. thank you for being 1 of the first nice ppl to say something nice to me since i first joind fauna.
 
no thats what the curator of reptiles at the zoo told me about the eastern's i will have all the information as soon as he calles me back
 
Although I think most people would be willing to admit that some local populations of the Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake MAY have some minor proportion of their venom as a neurotoxin, I think it is highly unlikely that there is any individual EDB, much less a population, that exhibits 100 percent neurotoxic effects and ZERO hemotoxic effects from a bite. I find it highly unlikely that any bite from ANY EDB that was not a dry bite would not exhibit any substantial tissue damage because of it.

Take a look at this website:
http://www.rattlesnakebite.org/rattlesnakepics.htm

THAT is the results of hemotoxic envenomation. Granted it is from a Western Diamondback, but I sincerely doubt a bite from an Eastern would be a substantially more kinder, gentler, experience to go through.

IMHO..........
 
i understand what you are saying. but i received a 100% neurotocix envenomation i was paralized for 3 days and didnt have any necrosis at all. the curator of reptiles at the philla zoo said that my edb bite was a neurotoxic encenomation. im telling the truth i would never lie about something as serious as this. please belve me thanks.
 
and yes, i have seen that wdb bite pic it's horrible. but the reason for his arm bring cut open was because of compartment pressure.
 
Vinny D said:
and yes, i have seen that wdb bite pic it's horrible. but the reason for his arm bring cut open was because of compartment pressure.
Click to expand...

Not really.

A fasciotomy would be the procedure performed to relieve compartment pressure and looks nothing like any of the presented pictures (unless your surgeon is Sweeney Todd).

The pictures in the link posted by Rich depict radical tissue ressection and debridement consistent with extensive tissue necrosis secondary to hemotoxic envenomation.
 
WebSlave said:
THAT is the results of hemotoxic envenomation. Granted it is from a Western Diamondback, but I sincerely doubt a bite from an Eastern would be a substantially more kinder, gentler, experience to go through.

IMHO..........
Click to expand...
I remember reading about that incident. FYI, that was most likely a Northern Pacific Crotalus viridus oreganus (has this gone species status yet? I'm a bit behind the new Western Rattlesnake complex study), but your point still stands. There is no way a bite from an EDB caused no tissue damage at all, and caused paralysis. Based on other incidents related to this poster, would it be too far fetched to wonder if maybe the bite (assuming it really happended as stated) was from another "exotic", and due to legalities or whatever, the identity of the snake was "incorrectly identified"? or am I just letting my imagination get totally out in left field?
 
reptilebreeder said:
I remember reading about that incident. FYI, that was most likely a Northern Pacific Crotalus viridus oreganus (has this gone species status yet? I'm a bit behind the new Western Rattlesnake complex study),
Click to expand...
darn can't edit. viridis,
 
well i think i know what a crotalus adamenteus is. i was boarn and raised in florida and have cought and seen many. and they treated me with crofab. so it was a noth american pitviper. and i know what an edb look like from heat to rattle. and i did receive a neurotoxic effect from her bite.
 
hay SHAVEMYCOINPURSE did you see the link webslave put in his post. the wdb bite there he needed the surgery to releve the compartment pressure.
 
Vinny D said:
well i think i know what a crotalus adamenteus is. i was boarn and raised in florida and have cought and seen many. and they treated me with crofab. so it was a noth american pitviper. and i know what an edb look like from heat to rattle. and i did receive a neurotoxic effect from her bite.
Click to expand...

Nothing you have posted on Fauna would lead anyone to come to the conclusion that you know anything about reptiles nor any other animal.

Do you understand the concept of diminishing return?
 
if you guys really knew me you would respect me for what i have done for many years. not getting bit, but the passion and love i have for reptiles and all animals. i am very experienced about all reptiles snakes mostly since their my favorite. so can we please just let all of this go. i have never lyied on here or put anybody down. i just wanted to share my mistakes with other's so they wont make the same. please beleve me im not a fony in anyway or form. i may have came off to some of you as bigheaded and ingorant. but i didnt mean to. im sorry if i offended any 1 at all. but i will not leave fauna until i can get this cleared up. and hopefully i will. thanks
 
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