Glendon McDonald Poor Ethics?

[sputnik]

More BS

will say that all of the herps that we have spoken with agree with what we have said.

Again, this statement means nothing because the fact you can't comment of who they are.. because they even exist.

 

[Seamus Haley]

Sorry I don't agree with any of you, which obviously makes me wrong. I will say that all of the herps that we have spoken with agree with what we have said.

You do realize that head bobbing is a territorial/dominant display and doesn't mean that your herps approve of what you're saying, right?

Of course of you meant herpetologists... Just who do you think has been disagreeing with you on this thread? The answer is... HERPERS!

Those overwhelming numbers in the poll above who disapprove of what your friend is trying to do... Who do you think cast the votes? The answer is... HERPERS!

The people who have been noting that they have a vested interest in the industry and have explained how every given individual animal and it's genes make up a part of the whole, guess what those people are... The answer is... HERPERS!

 

[Wilomn]

I think I got it ironed out here. If it is within quotes (") it's by me. If it is not then it is by tool.

My sister is 14 yrs old and handicapped. My mother produced 2 other children that were healthy (myself and my brother). My sister is blind, has no motor skills, and has the intelligence level of a 3 yr old. So since this passed on through the genes should I not reproduce with my fiance? There is a chance we could have another child like my sister.


"Ok smart guy, let me ask you this. Will you do an amniocentisis before your children are born? Have you considered the life they may have should the INHERIT the DEFECTIVE genes YOU carry? What happens when you are too old or unable to care for these deformed children? You may also want to ask your fiance' about that test, she may feel different about it than you do."


No I will not put other peoples names out here on my post because that's none of your business. But I will guarantee that this person has been in the business of breeding and selling reptiles as long or longer than most of the people on this website have.


"Excellant copout there. I know these guys but I won't tell you who they are. Basically then, what they say, or supposedly say, is worth NOTHING. Gotcha."

I hope everybody does remember this because I can almost guarantee I will never have to deal with any of you people, nor would I care to.


"And I can ALMOST GUARENTEE that the sun WILL rise in the EAST tomorrow. Excellant train of logic you are following, can't wait for the big black tunnel that is SURELY just around the bend."


As far as the pattern morph I am referring to everybody saying this snake couldn't survive in the wild.

"You are NOT referring to a PATTERN MORPH if you are talking about having NO EYES, that is a physical DEFORMITY, NOT a morphological distinction."

None of those other snakes will either.

"This has been covered in my last post and it SHOULD be obvious to you that you are WRONG. The proof is in the adult snake EXPRESSING several of the MORPHS we have discussed, anerythism, patternless, and yes, even albino as evidensed by the ADULT wild caught ALBINO rosy boa that started many of the albino rosies we see today. Again you are either outright lying or just not willing to see that you are WRONG."


We talked to the seller of the snake and the reason it was sold was because it is a very good feeder. (5-6 rats weekly)

"Is there a difference where you come from between a RAT and a RABBIT? I seem to recall that this snake was reportedly eating 2-3 rabbits a week. Of course this was before it was established that you had only had the snake for ONE week. Seems that the story is changing here."

And if I have protrayed a childlike attitude then what does that say about you. I have only defended myself from the start.

"It says that some of us can IDENTIFY a child like attitude when it is presented to us and some of us do indeed act like children. Guess which one of those two choices seems to fit you best at this point. I have only defended myself from the start. Has it occurred to you to ask WHY you have had to DEFEND yourself from the start?"

 

[WebSlave]

One of the criteria for a thread to be thrown into hell is because of the actions of the people taking part in it. From the casual scanning I did of the posts I saw this criteria being met. Also, one of the participants had been warned about third party posts and apparently antagonizing one of more of the moderators who have been monitoring this thread.

I can move this back to the BOI if you all wish, but NOT until all of the participants agree to abide by the rules and to be civil in their messages. Unless and until this agreement has been met, this thread will stay here. So you all tell me what it is going to be.

 

[Seamus Haley]

I can move this back to the BOI if you all wish, but NOT until all of the participants agree to abide by the rules and to be civil in their messages. Unless and until this agreement has been met, this thread will stay here. So you all tell me what it is going to be.

I agree to the above statement and will abide by the rules and remain civil.

However even with that clarification, do you see what I mean about how someone can send their own negative thread to "Hell" and then by refusing to abide by such an agreement, keep it there against the will of the majority? Using guidelines of that nature, any BOI thread could be sabotaged and allow bad guys an easy way to escape public scrutiny.

 

[sputnik]

Hell

Rich, go ahead and shift it back if you will please. I think a lot of people are missing out on something that is serious. The poll taken should show what people think of the issue at hand.

If some want to risk having this thrown into hell by their own individual actions. Then have them banned from this thread so the majority can view this and form their own opinion.

 

[Wilomn]

Glen can't post right now because according to the site his registry info is incomplete. He set it up under his home email address and we can't access yahoo from work. He WILL post tonight from home. And also, one of our make believe resources is supposed to come onto the site today and possibly post something, if he feels like it is even worth it. "He sold glen the snake" There is no point in arguing with you people anymore. I am a child, I don't know what I'm talking about and the answers to my questions and comments are all the same. I'm tired of going in circles. Sorry I don't agree with any of you, which obviously makes me wrong. I will say that all of the herps that we have spoken with agree with what we have said.

I won't even get into your misspelling here. Man I hope I spelled misspelled right.

Anyway, I know this guy, he's really into cars and him and all my other car buddies say that you don't HAVE to have headlights on your car. Just don't drive at night. Sure, the factory has a spot for them and recommends that they be put in and utilized, buy I'm never drive at night so why should I have headlights on my car. No, none of my car friends will come here and say that they agree with me, they think this site is stupid.

There is also NO chance that my fiance' will get pregnant and her baby, which will be PERFECT in every way even though MY FULL SISTER is deformed and I AM carrying the SAME genes as MY sister, will decide to be born AT NIGHT, WHEN IT IS DARK, WHEN I MIGHT NEED HEADLIGHTS on my car that I only drive during the day. It just won't happen. In fact, I am going to tell all the teenagers and people NEW to cars that I meet, as well as all the new parents and people who have mental or physically defective/deformed SIBLINGS, that they don't need to WORRY about lights OR passing on defective genes.

I think I may have made my point here.

You are so totally in "I don't care" land, that you don't give a dang about anyone but YOU.

You'll be an EXCELLANT father. I only hope that your children can NOT ONLY see you but COMPREHEND that you are their FATHER.

 

[Wilomn]

I agree to the above statement and will abide by the rules and remain civil.

However even with that clarification, do you see what I mean about how someone can send their own negative thread to "Hell" and then by refusing to abide by such an agreement, keep it there against the will of the majority? Using guidelines of that nature, any BOI thread could be sabotaged and allow bad guys an easy way to escape public scrutiny.

He's right Rich. This is a nasty can of worms that has been unintentionally opened and there is something VERY rotten at the bottom of it.

Suspend the repeat offenders but don't start moving things to hell because of cross posting.

 

[tool66]

In response to pulling it out of "hell" that is fine. Don't call me an idiot and accuse me of acting like a child and I won't make anymore derogatory comments.

All of the herpers you are refering to run in your circle. Not mine. How is my reputation hurt here? I'm not breeding snakes, I'm simply stating my opinion on the subject. I can put my snakes in the paper in my area and I can guarantee most of the people that would be interested in buying a snake haven't even heard of this website. So what does it matter? My OPINION hasn't changed.

 

[Wilomn]

I can put my snakes in the paper in my area and I can guarantee most of the people that would be interested in buying a snake haven't even heard of this website. So what does it matter? My OPINION hasn't changed.

You are so totally in "I don't care" land, that you don't give a dang about anyone but YOU.

[/B]

 

[tool66]

I didn't get to see the post before my last post but I thought we were trying to remain civil here. Are we the only ones that receive warning points on this site for unnecessary comments?

"You'll be an EXCELLANT father. I only hope that your children can NOT ONLY see you but COMPREHEND that you are their FATHER."

I bet you wouldn't say that to me in person. This just got real personal.

 

[Seamus Haley]

And now I can see what Rich meant when he put the thread into Hell and off the BOI.

In situations like this where a thread took a specific turn and *part* of it is no longer suitable for the BOI but *most* of it still is, can the thread be cut at some point with responses after a certain post forming a new thread in the more appropriate forum?

In instances like this I think the good and BOI worthy information has become mixed with the negative Hell-worthy posts but not until the more recent pages of the thread... I'm not sure how specifically a thread can be edited, but removing inappropriate posts and leaving appropriate ones intact seems like a solution to the potential abuse of the Hell standards that I brought up. When someone begins misbehaving, their comments and any responses in a similar vein are moved, the legitimate content remains.

Obviously a few of the "border posts" which got caught up might end up moved to Hell, but the posters can easily copy and paste their appropriate comments back onto the thread containing the legitimate and on topic information.

 

[Lucille]

I will abide and be civil

 

[Darin Chappell]

Please folks, let's keep this off of the personal levels. The issue at hand is whether it is ethical to keep, breed, and/or sell an animal with an obvious defomrity such as having no eyes.

Anything beyond that seems out of bounds, to me. I'd hate to see all of this information being thrust from the BOI, where those seeking to know what type of breeder Mr. McDonald is can find out all about him!

 

[sputnik]

?

Due to personal remarks made here I cannot see this being sent back to the BOI at all.

I cannot see McDonald coming up with real answers either.

 

[Darin Chappell]

Rich,

If it is the determination that this thread must remain here, would it be acceptable for someone to post a thread on the BOI, containing nothing but a link to THIS thread? Perhaps that would serve both purposes here?

Just an idea...

 

[Palustris]

Nothing like replying to several threads then being booted before you can post..

Becuase I've handled enough snakes in my 30 year life span, from wild caught to captive bred to know a healthy snake from a sick one. duh.... This snake IS HEALTHY. If he weren't, I wouldn't have bought him and I seriously doubt if the owner of the store in question would have sold him. that's an insult to a man i consider a friend and a VERY experienced handler.

Matt is indeed a very good guy, however, being that to my knowledge he had the animal barely 24hrs he did not have the chance to properly quarantine or have it taken to a vet, as the same pertains to you. Not all pathogens and zoonotic diseases are seen with the naked eye. And, you can't just tell if the snake is healthy or not. Though being all these years of keeping animals, you would know this, correct?

Darin, there are ways to restrict an animals breeding instead of simply wiping the animal out. Most accidents are due to multiple caged animals or 'maybe' accidentally introducing the wrong animal. You misplace a patternless scrub that lacks eyes as another animal then.. Well..
This animal would serve as a wonderful exhibit animal, and his selling points are more of my concern, but indeed I do not want this animal ruining the genes of perfectly healthy animals. I do retract my comment to Lucille, I was a tad tired and somewhat disappointed at the statement.

Um...so killing off perfectly formed mice, rats, chickens or rabbits every time the snake is hungry is just fine because it serves your interests, but even the suggestion of harming a deformed reptile means that she can't possibly have a valid oppinion and shouldn't be listened to?

I've heard the "any life must be protected" argument before, but since you directly contradict it yourselves...maybe you shouldn't make it?

As a side note though, putting a reptile in the freezer isn't a vet board approved form of euthenization...and in my oppinion probably shouldn't be done. Contrary to popular belief, freezing to death isn't a great way to go, and in most states (if reported) could be followed up under animal cruelty laws. (not saying I agree with them necessarily...just that it's a consideration)

Clifford, are you confused?
Mice and other 'food' items are killed off for a legitimate reason, this would be called the food chain. This snake in question would be destroyed due to prejudice, where does that come hand in hand with you comment? The animal has many alternatives to subduing it without the possibility of putting it down. I do guess that would be easier to do. Also, I agree with you on freezing; Nothing like having your cells rupture and having frozen shards crossing through your body. Fun.

Has ANYONE CAUGHT a ONE EYED or NO EYED snake in the wild? I have not heard nor have I ever seen one wild caught.

Though this reply would be meaningless since I do not have the articles but I do recall reading about several animals being found (adult and jeveniles )that were eyeless.

We talked to the seller of the snake and the reason it was sold was because it is a very good feeder. (5-6 rats weekly) But don't take my word for it, I'm sure you can go through zane to confirm that one.

The guy who sold the snake to Mat or Mat selling the animal to you? I don't question his ability to being a very good feeder, my point is that you cannot attest this yourself. This would be like me buying a used car and driving it to another buyers house and saying this car drives wonderfully, make me an offer.
I also oppose to the reasoning of why you were selling it, This is why I disapprove of any morph as well as any other mutation. My main concern was just the selling pitch and motive behind it.
Zane Neher

 

[JJFOUTZ]

Rich,

If it is the determination that this thread must remain here, would it be acceptable for someone to post a thread on the BOI, containing nothing but a link to THIS thread? Perhaps that would serve both purposes here?

Just an idea...

The origonal slot is still on the BOI with the moved symbol next to it that links to here automatically. Granted, it will drop off the first page pretty quickly but it is there.

I do agree that it should be on the BOI though.

 

[Wilomn]

"You'll be an EXCELLANT father. I only hope that your children can NOT ONLY see you but COMPREHEND that you are their FATHER."

I bet you wouldn't say that to me in person. This just got real personal.

I just LOVE the opportunity to quote my favorite Rabbit in the whole world.

"He don't know me vewy well, do he?"

I would say it to your face, to your backside, to whatever part of you was facing me. Withou qualm or hesitation.

Saying something true is NOT something I shy away from.

 

[Wilomn]

Rich, if you do decide to put this back in the BOI, where it belongs as far as I'm concerned, feel free to DELETE any post made by me and I'll tone it WAYYYYY down if I comment any further in it.