• In the past two days I have gotten emails asking about being requested to provide credit card info in order to register and also to make a post in the classifieds forums. PLEASE NOTE: In no instance will this site ask you for this sort of information. The only time any request for payment is made is if you choose to opt-in for a higher membership level, and that is done SOLELY through PayPal. Anything else is coming from a source other than this site. My guess is that this is coming through Google Adsense, but when I can get someone to send me a screen shot of this sort of request, I will know more.
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

Gone into winter fast before breeding.....???

H

housemom21

house mom
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
54
Location
at my house
Hi,
I have an 800g male ball python (around 8 yrs old). This is the first year I will try and mate him with my 2700g 9 yr old female.(I do not know wether her previous owners bred her as I bought her from a pet store as a surrender). They have both been eating VERY well and consistently since they ended their winter fast this past March. They have both been shedding nicely and fattening up from their winter weight loss.

The last time they ate was Aug 15/07. I cannot get either one of them to eat no matter what I do. They shy away and hide their heads, try to get away under their hides, etc. Obvious behavior that they are not interested in the food that they've been so readily taking. I have had their cages separated since I got them a few years ago as I was told that this would affect their eating habits if they got wind of each other. It worked nicely.

I am about to start shortening their days of sunlight to stimulate breeding and I am not sure if this whole breeding thing is good to start if neither one of them has eaten for a month. They've both pooped and peed, my big girl just shed fully tonight and took a HUGE drink from her water dish. They just won't eat. They are not losing weight yet as it's only been 4 weeks.

I am more worried about my male than my female. He needs his strength in order to breed. He is nice and plump right now but dwindles fast over the winter months when he fasts. I guess this must be normal for a fast because he sure makes up for it in the spring. It's just my first time actually breeding them and I want everything to be perfect so that they succeed. Any suggestions or help would be very much appreciated.
 
It actually isn't normal for him to lose weight while fasting for the winter -- a couple grams, sure, but he should remain relatively the same. If he isn't, there may be something else wrong.

I would be more concerned with the fact that an 8-year-old adult male only weighs 800g. That says he isn't being fed as much as he should be or isn't eating enough. That is the weight of my yearlings -- my adult males are 1500g to 1800g in weight with one being 2400g. The recommended minimum breeding weight for a male is 900g. He sounds very small and malnourished so I absolutely wouldn't put him through the stress of breeding.
 
When I got my male two years ago, yes he was very underfed and malnourished. The people that owned him prior since birth did not feed him much or consitently at all. Since I've got him, he's doubled his weight. I feed him every 7-10 days once he starts eating again (last year he fasted from November 10 to Feb 28 and lost around 50g) and he usually takes 2-3 mice each time I feed him. And he's been refusing to eat since Aug15. Nothing has changed in his hide or in our home. We handle him regularly(2-3x/wk). The only thing that did happen was 2 weeks ago my son left his lid off on his cage while we were handling him and when he put him back in, he got sidetracked and forgot to put the lid back on.....the snake crawled out and spent three days on our closet floor before I finally found him.

But he had been refusing to eat prior to his escape anyways and he seems unharmed by his little adventure. I even tried enticing him with a gerbil without success. We haven't had him around the female at all, and actually we make sure that we do not handle them at the same time and we wash in between so that he doesn't smell her. Last year, his cage was in the same room and in November he started depositing sperm plugs in his caves. Almost like he was in mating mode, but without a female. I knew he was way too small last year.

I have been given some mixed answers with what a healthy weight is to start mating a male. Some say 800g, some 900g, some 1000g. One guy even said he had a male bp that started at 400g. My male bp had done well with gaining the weight this spring/summer, but all of a sudden, the refusal to eat...I dunno. Sounds almost like a stress thing to me. Lately, each time I try again to feed him, I wait about 3-5 days so he isn't constantly stressed with a mouse hanging over his head. I know I said we handle him regularly, but the past 14 days, we've left him alone just to see if he would come around and eat. Nothing yet. I am going to try another gerbil here after the weekend.

He comes out of his hides EVERY night at the same time and hangs out on his log, basks and explores his tiny world. I keep a cover over the front of his glass cage so he doesn't get spooked by us walking by. He is in our bedroom upstairs, so the traffic is minimal. I was really hoping that he would be ready for breeding this year as he had gained so much weight (400g) since Feb/Mar. I think it would be wise to let him be another year maybe...what do you think?
 
I agree, he needs another year to gain proper weight. I would be concerned with wearing him out by breeding him at such a malnourished state. As I mentioned, 800g is extremely small for a male of his age. I would try to switch him to rats as they provide better nutrition than mice, and up his feedings to one every 5-7 days.

If you want to breed your big girl this year, you could easily pick up a breedable pastel, spider, or mojave male for cheap. That would be a fun project.
 
You know that makes me think about something. There's a lady that owns a small, independent pet shop downtown and she has had a ball python for sale for almost 6 months without any interest in him. The reason being is because she wants $999 for him. She's crazy I know. I think he's 1200g. I wonder if she would be interested in letting me use him for breeding and then possibly sharing the profits of the babies if all works out. After all she does have her own pet store.

I'm gonna ask her what she thinks. That way, my guy can have this year off. I sure hope he starts feeding again. I am going to give it two weeks before I bug him with food or handling again. I'll just keep an eye on his husbandry and give him a rest from people. The funny thing is that my girl is refusing to eat too.

Three nights ago she shed, then had a huge drink, and then last night she had a HUGE poop. Maybe that's why she wasn't wanting to eat. It would make sense. Well, thanks for the advice. Sounds like you are very knowledgable in this area. bye.
 
$999 is ABSOLUTELY a complete rip-off for an adult male normal ball python -- that lady is smoking crack. You can buy one for cheap or free from just about anyone as they are really are only good as pets, not usable in breeding. You would not earn much back by selling normal babies as baby ball pythons only sell for $20-$40 each. If you get 6-8 good eggs, that's only about $150.

If you want adult males, I have 2 available right now for $30 each, $50 for the pair. They both feed like pigs on live weaned rats.
 
I know it's absolutely ridiculous for her to think she's gonna get that much for a bp, and that's why it's still there after 6 months. She'll never sell it. I don't want baby balls in order to make money, I want them cuz I have family members and friends that want to give them good homes. They absolutely love my snakes and they all live locally so I could keep an eye on how they are raised. I guess if I used her male, then she'd want to sell them in her store for unrealistic prices.

How big are your males? Are they last year's babies?
 
A tip on offering food... wait longer.

If they skip a feed interval wait until next time. Offering every 3 days is too much & can cause stress... and you know stressed BPs can have feeding issues... vicious circle, no? I do have a few adults that are already skipping meals, so it may just be that time of year.
Best Wishes-Deb
 
Thanks so much guys! I am going to wait and let him gain some more weight. I will try him with rats as well. My girl has started eating nicely again. Gerbils. I breed the Gerbils so it's cheaper. I haven't tried to feed my boy for two weeks. I have only bothered him twice to check for poops and pees in his hides and to change his water. I like to change his water every 3 days, but I've sacrificed this in hopes that he would enjoy the privacy.

I am going to try and feed him tomorrow. Hopefully he will eat. I dunno, I am really considering getting rid of him, or just letting him be my son's pet, and I will get another boy for breeding here in a month. I REALLy want to try and breed my big girl this year. she's ready, willing and able!!!!
 
OH, the next poop he does I am taking it in to have it checked for parasites. The only way he could have gotten them is from the mice he eats.....and I buy them from a petstore...but no guarantees, I know.
 
Last thing since the common misconception is brought up when people mention what they feed their snakes.

Since we don't know the nutritional requirements of Ball Pythons and other snakes, it is a moot point to say that one prey item is better than another. Weight is all that matters. If you want to feed 2-3 25g mice, or if you want to feed one 55-75g weaned rat, it doesn't matter.

Feed what the snake will eat and what is most convenient for you to obtain. I have 35 Ball Pythons and every single one eats mice. The 07 babies are on small/medium adults, the 06s are on 1-2 medium adults, and the adults are on 2-3(sometimes 4 if I have extras) medium/large adults. One of my females weighed 2300g(a short and fat 2300g) before breeding season, she laid 6 HUGE eggs in late May, immediately began eating, and is 2200g now, on just 3-4 mice a week(I sometimes skip a week too).

If he's 8 years old already, it's very unlikely he will change his habits. I would just get a fecal exam just to make sure he's healthy(he could just be a small male), and just keep feeding him.

I rescued that same female in May of LAST year, and she was 3 years old at the time and 780g. I fed her 2-3 mice a week, and she gained over 1500g from May to December. If that's not good growth and recovery, I don't know what is.

I do echo everyone else though, I would wait to breed him until he has adequate fat reserves and is fully recovered from being so malnourished. Those males that Jen has are very cute and are healthy, definitely check them out if you want to go for babies this season :)
 
Becky's right about the nutritional requirements of ball pythons -- nobody knows exactly what they need. When people recommend rats over mice, it usually is based on their experiences and not any scientific data of them being better or worse or whatever. I prefer rats because my snakes grow better on them...the mouse feeders tend to be pickier and grow slower. The only mouse feeder I currently have was 3 years old when I got her and never got past 900g. Now she is over 1000g because I finally got her feeding on ASF rats instead of mice. I also prefer rats because many of my snakes are over 2000-3000g, and it's easier to feed 2-4 weaned rats vs. 5-10 mice. It would be more expensive for me to have to buy 100 mice every feeding day vs. 50 rats.

As for the 2 males, I've already found them a home with someone in California. Just waiting for the boxes to get here so I can ship them. They are doing so well and I know the lady is going to be happy with them. I do get a lot of rescues in so I'm sure I'll have more at some point. I just can't stand to see these animals stay in bad situations -- even if it means I have to pay to get them out. :(
 
If you look at the composition on a dry matter basis of mice and rats there's not much difference; they are similar in protein, fat, calcium, phosphorus, etc. The key word is dry matter content. A rat fuzzy will have more water in it's composition (less dry matter) than an adult mouse of identical weight. Thus, the adult mouse will make the ball python gain more weight in that scenario; water is just that, water and will not result in accretion of body mass in ball pythons or any other snakes for that matter.

Regards.
 
thanks so much you guys! We have decided just to keep this guy as a pet (as he's always been anyways) and to acquire a healthier sturdier male for breeding in the future. My boy has started eating again. I am hoping to keep him in the best shape I can.

It's nice to hear that exactly what I've been thinking all along.....he's only going to fatten up and grow so much because he's small for an 8 year old snake. I realize that his previous owners did this to him and it was too late for him by the time I got him. He has double his weight in the past two years....but painfully slow I might add. I may just be faced with having a smaller snake than he would have been if he'd been given the chance earlier on to grow. I feel he's been severely stunted and there isn't much more I can do besides force feed him (WHICH I WOULD NEVER DO UNLESS A VET RECOMMENDED IT AND DID IT FOR ME!)

Under the circumstances, I feel he is maintaining his well being ok and he just isn't going to be a breeder. I will be looking for others! Thanks again
 
Back
Top