Good Guy Good Guy* Andrew Hermes of Arizona Tortoise Compound

[Joe I]

David Scarboro. Once again, you don't know me but yet portray yourself, as you do. This thread is about Andrew. Your juvenile attempts to make it about me is very comical.

Hmmm. You are either a personal friend of Erik L. or just simply find it entertaining to come here and harass people. I would think it is probably both.

I have seen you attacking every good guy post about Andrew here on Fauna, but you have never once dealt with him personally, and no one knows who your are.

Keep your chin up. Have a great day!

 

[Lucille]

good guy thread

"Please utilize the SEARCH function as much as possible before starting a new thread (topic line). In many instances, it is much better to continue an existing thread rather than starting a new one in order to preserve continuity in the information about a person or business. Most readers are much more inclined to read a single long thread, rather than dozens of smaller ones scattered all over the BOI. So don't let your message get lost in the clutter by ignoring this simple rule.
'

 

[David Scarboro]

David Scarboro. Once again, you don't know me but yet portray yourself, as you do. This thread is about Andrew. Your juvenile attempts to make it about me is very comical.

Hmmm. You are either a personal friend of Erik L. or just simply find it entertaining to come here and harass people. I would think it is probably both.

I have seen you attacking every good guy post about Andrew here on Fauna, but you have never once dealt with him personally, and no one knows who your are.

Keep your chin up. Have a great day!

Actually< I wouldn't care to know you at all. I have read enough of your nonsense to know that. I think that you are acting like the juvenile here. How many threads about ATC have you posted in. I have never met or corresponded with Erik L. I DO find it entertaining to come here and watch you thrash about trying to deflect the charges which have been leveled against you and ATC. My chin is always up. You appear to be the one with the chip on his shoulder. I notice that Andrew will not man up and post in his bad-guy thread. Now you are dodging around and will not answer bad-guy charges that have been made against you. What about the parasites? What about the shell-rot? As already noted Rich Z has asked you a direct question in YOUR thread. Are you going to answer it? Or will you continue with the losing strategy of claiming that we are out to get you? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth and you ARE hurting Andrew of ATC a lot more than you are helping. But keep it up, rebutting you is like shooting fish in a barrel and actually quite fun!

 

[Lucille]

Just so the subject of the thread, ATC and Andrew Hermes, doesn't get too deeply buried:

The tortoise Mr. Hermes sent me arrived on Wednesday March 20th at 5 pm, DEAD. The tortoise arrived in an unvented box, which upon opening, contained another unvented box with the bottom broken out. This inner box was IN A TIED CLOSED PLASTIC BAG.

 

[hhmoore]

Warning: That's enough

This nonsense has gone on way long.
Joe I - my suggestion to you is in my PM'd response.

While agree that some history on posters can be relevant (see the character reference comment made in post 20) - especially when that poster is working so hard to bury, and distract from another's experience - it can get out of hand....and this is a good example. The free-for-all is over.

 

[Chris2013]

He ain't a wonderful Guy if he won't make up for a Torotise Dying. That is not how Business as his should run. He is the one responsiable for this Mishap and that's that! He needs to stand up and make up for it, No questions ask. I hope he does,But either way I won't do business with him and Will make sure at my upcoming shows That I am I advise others against him as well. I am also talking to a friend that sells him tortoise's and He is thinking on Not selling any more to him until this is dealt with and the tortoise is replaced.

 

[Joe I]

Hello everyone. Have been busy the past few days. So many things to say, but not sure where to start...

Not all, but some of you people have an uncanny knack for trying to take the focus away from a Good Guy thread, and simply cause problems. Yes, David, I know you enjoy all of this. It is clearly evident. Lucielle, your very first couple of posts were to deter people from my Good Guy post and focus on me. But yet, you say I made this thread to take focus away from the Bad Guy thread. I merely posted a good guy thread about Andrew because he was being attacked here on the BOI, and more importantly because I have had only good experiences with him.

Go back to the beginning of the thread.... Yes, certain individuals immediately try make this thread about someone else. I thought we were suppose to stay on topic here? What have the troublemakers contributed to this thread? Just problems. You personally have not done business with Andrew? So why did you post anything?
This should have been a short thread but certain members love a conflict. Thus, a long overdrawn babysitting match.

There is more to Andrew's whole story, and he clearly was not solely at fault in this instance. Please get all of the facts and read his entire thread or give him a call. Have a good night!

Again, this is simply a good guy thread and my experience in dealing with Andrew?ATC over the past several years.

Have a great evening all.

 

[David Scarboro]

Hello everyone. Have been busy the past few days. So many things to say, but not sure where to start...

Not all, but some of you people have an uncanny knack for trying to take the focus away from a Good Guy thread, and simply cause problems. Yes, David, I know you enjoy all of this. It is clearly evident. Lucielle, your very first couple of posts were to deter people from my Good Guy post and focus on me. But yet, you say I made this thread to take focus away from the Bad Guy thread. I merely posted a good guy thread about Andrew because he was being attacked here on the BOI, and more importantly because I have had only good experiences with him.

Go back to the beginning of the thread.... Yes, certain individuals immediately try make this thread about someone else. I thought we were suppose to stay on topic here? What have the troublemakers contributed to this thread? Just problems. You personally have not done business with Andrew? So why did you post anything?
This should have been a short thread but certain members love a conflict. Thus, a long overdrawn babysitting match.

There is more to Andrew's whole story, and he clearly was not solely at fault in this instance. Please get all of the facts and read his entire thread or give him a call. Have a good night!

Again, this is simply a good guy thread and my experience in dealing with Andrew?ATC over the past several years.

Have a great evening all.

Instead of defending your friend when the VAST majority have already decided that he is wrong, perhaps you could take some time to address your own bad guy thread where you sent Tortoises with shell rot and parasites to at least two different people. If you are really interested in setting things straight, there is plenty of work for you there. You have an uncanny knack for ignoring questions that you do not want to answer. There is still one for you pending from the owner of the site about a statement that you made. Also, I am glad that you have finally admitted that Andrew is at fault here even though you do add the word solely. We do finally agree on something. Andrew and UPS are at fault, but the problem began with Andrew's poor packing. Thanks for your input!

 

[Lucille]

Hello everyone. Have been busy the past few days. So many things to say, but not sure where to start...

Not all, but some of you people have an uncanny knack for trying to take the focus away from a Good Guy thread, and simply cause problems. Yes, David, I know you enjoy all of this. It is clearly evident. Lucielle, your very first couple of posts were to deter people from my Good Guy post and focus on me. But yet, you say I made this thread to take focus away from the Bad Guy thread. I merely posted a good guy thread about Andrew because he was being attacked here on the BOI, and more importantly because I have had only good experiences with him.

Go back to the beginning of the thread.... Yes, certain individuals immediately try make this thread about someone else. I thought we were suppose to stay on topic here? What have the troublemakers contributed to this thread? Just problems. You personally have not done business with Andrew? So why did you post anything?
This should have been a short thread but certain members love a conflict. Thus, a long overdrawn babysitting match.

There is more to Andrew's whole story, and he clearly was not solely at fault in this instance. Please get all of the facts and read his entire thread or give him a call. Have a good night!

Again, this is simply a good guy thread and my experience in dealing with Andrew?ATC over the past several years.

Have a great evening all.

This entire post was in my opinion intentionally written to start little side arguments and take the focus away from the death of the tortoise and ATC's responsibility.
In addition, this person is still playing ignorant of the function of the BOI because he has in numerous instances implied that only those with personal experience should post. That is not the way the BOI works. I believe he knows this.

There was a certain to remain unnamed penny auction company that used the same technique of trying to bury the real issues by creating little side arguments, they too knew how it all worked but figured that by burying the real issues everyone would forget what they had done. It didn't work there, and it won't work here.

 

[Joe I]

Hi David. Yes, I think both parties were at fault. I don't believe I ever said that both should not take responsibility. Both parties should. But, its not one sided and the clear attack and full blame on Andrew is just not right.


I don't know Erik, but I have friends that have posted on his bad guy post in favor of Erik. Again, both parties are at fault here. I think Erik handled this the wrong way instead of immediately resorting to posting a Bad Guy thread. That's no way to get the issue resolved and should only be used as a last resort.

But, yes, I still feel Andrew is a good guy to do business with. Also again, this is solely from my "personal experience" in doing several deals with him.

2 very quick responses, regarding myself as I never ignore any issue regarding my business dealings. The shell rot issue, I offered the gentlemen a full $2000 refund to remedy the situation and it was denied. The gentlemen needed the animal for breeding. I was actually quite shocked he joined in the thread because the issue was handled.

The other issue "Bad Guy" thread about me could have been rectified as well. Here is what happened in short. I sold a well started 3 month old Sri Lankan. Animal was placed and housed in an tank where a sick Indian had been kept. In fact, this person killed the Indian Star in shipment. 30 days later the animal caught parasites, was not taken to a Vet. But, was taken to a Vet. "school" in Louisiana where they could "practice" during class hours and was pumped full of drugs. Then, I received a phone call after the animal was treated at the school. I should have been notified immediately upon arrival or short thereafter upon the animals arrival after it was sold, if there was anything wrong. Certainly not after, it had been already pumped full of drugs. 6 months later the animals I sold him was alive and well mind you. This same gentlemen had asked if he could buy another Sri Lankan Star from me. I refused. He was upset I would not sell him another tortoise, so he posted the Bad Guy thread against me. If you read the entire post that is the gist of the entire thread.

Have a good night, David....

 

[Joe I]

Hi Lucielle. Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. This in not a conspiracy. Just a good guy thread in which you and a couple others attempted to make this about me. I see several here that have many posts that simply act both as judge and the jury. But, yet have no personal knowledge of either party. Again, its very easy to partake in ganging up against people when you are not involved in the Reptile Industry.

Have a good evening.

 

[Lucille]

about me.

The thread is about ATC:

The tortoise Mr. Hermes sent me arrived on Wednesday March 20th at 5 pm, DEAD. The tortoise arrived in an unvented box, which upon opening, contained another unvented box with the bottom broken out. This inner box was IN A TIED CLOSED PLASTIC BAG.

 

[Joe I]

Hi Lucielle. Yes, I was aware of that. Did you know that Andrew highly recommended that the animal be shipped through the Airlines, from Airport to Airport? This is the "only" way, I feel, any animal should be shipped! But, especially high dollar animals. In fact, I tell people that the only way I will give a live arrival guarantee is if the use the Airlines. Otherwise, the shipment is on them. Through experience, I get it in writing each time in which I am sure Andrew has learned his lesson.

I am not sure if you know this but.. when you ship with the Airlines, in most cases, the animal arrives within a few hours. Also, a shorter time in the container makes it much less stressful for the animal(s). Erik, opted out for choosing the Airline travel method and told Andrew to ship UPS. He also asked Andrew if he could leave a message with UPS to "leave the package at the front gate" of his home. Again, a very risky thing with a high dollar animal. This is all supremely surprising to me being that he is a Radiated "enthusiast/hobbyist." Why the heck would you want your high dollar Radiated to be shipped on UPS? If you can't make it to the Airport that day, fine, send a friend, neighbor, or relative!

Yes, as expected, UPS mishandled the package on the first day, and on the morning of the 20th (Day 2) Erik was notified that the animal was at the local sorting facility and could be picked up immediately. Erik opted out again, surprisingly, to go and get that animal that morning. I would have dropped everything I was doing to make it happen. Again, after UPS had already screwed up, and it was the 2nd day, why give them a second chance to screw up.

Yes, the animal was finally delivered to Erik's front gate at 5pm. on the 20th. So, it got to sit on a hot truck for another 12hours.

So to recap, I feel both should be responsible. But, Erik immediately jumped the gun and starting this thread while Andrew and himself where attempting to work things out? Also, no dead animal had ever been produced. Andrew was going to make it right, if given the chance. I am still trying to figure out why the heck a Radiated Tortoise enthusiast would not insist on using the Airlines and go the UPS out. I don't care if your a Doctor, or how busy your are. You have to know somebody that can do you a favor. For this, I feel both are at fault.

Just to be clear, I am not blaming just Erik. Andrew does have some fault in this too. I just saw Andrew getting attacked and people saying it is solely his fault, which is not right! Thus, my only good experiences with Andrew and the Good Guy post.

Have a good night Lucielle!

 

[Lucille]

He ain't a wonderful Guy if he won't make up for a Torotise Dying. That is not how Business as his should run. He is the one responsiable for this Mishap and that's that! He needs to stand up and make up for it, No questions ask. I hope he does,But either way I won't do business with him and Will make sure at my upcoming shows That I am I advise others against him as well. I am also talking to a friend that sells him tortoise's and He is thinking on Not selling any more to him until this is dealt with and the tortoise is replaced.

Michelle, would like to hear more, can you get your friend to post here?

 

[treeboa]

Hi Lucielle. Yes, I was aware of that. Did you know that Andrew highly recommended that the animal be shipped through the Airlines, from Airport to Airport? This is the "only" way, I feel, any animal should be shipped! But, especially high dollar animals. In fact, I tell people that the only way I will give a live arrival guarantee is if the use the Airlines. Otherwise, the shipment is on them. Through experience, I get it in writing each time in which I am sure Andrew has learned his lesson.

I am not sure if you know this but.. when you ship with the Airlines, in most cases, the animal arrives within a few hours. Also, a shorter time in the container makes it much less stressful for the animal(s). Erik, opted out for choosing the Airline travel method and told Andrew to ship UPS. He also asked Andrew if he could leave a message with UPS to "leave the package at the front gate" of his home. Again, a very risky thing with a high dollar animal. This is all supremely surprising to me being that he is a Radiated "enthusiast/hobbyist." Why the heck would you want your high dollar Radiated to be shipped on UPS? If you can't make it to the Airport that day, fine, send a friend, neighbor, or relative!

Yes, as expected, UPS mishandled the package on the first day, and on the morning of the 20th (Day 2) Erik was notified that the animal was at the local sorting facility and could be picked up immediately. Erik opted out again, surprisingly, to go and get that animal that morning. I would have dropped everything I was doing to make it happen. Again, after UPS had already screwed up, and it was the 2nd day, why give them a second chance to screw up.

Yes, the animal was finally delivered to Erik's front gate at 5pm. on the 20th. So, it got to sit on a hot truck for another 12hours.

So to recap, I feel both should be responsible. But, Erik immediately jumped the gun and starting this thread while Andrew and himself where attempting to work things out? Also, no dead animal had ever been produced. Andrew was going to make it right, if given the chance. I am still trying to figure out why the heck a Radiated Tortoise enthusiast would not insist on using the Airlines and go the UPS out. I don't care if your a Doctor, or how busy your are. You have to know somebody that can do you a favor. For this, I feel both are at fault.

Just to be clear, I am not blaming just Erik. Andrew does have some fault in this too. I just saw Andrew getting attacked and people saying it is solely his fault, which is not right! Thus, my only good experiences with Andrew and the Good Guy post.

Have a good night Lucielle!

You leave out the fact that the Tortoise was improperly boxed and the bottom of the box was destroyed. In the other thread a UPS hub employee said their procedure is to repair the box and if that's not possible open it, then repackage the shipment as appropriate. He stated there was no way they wouldn't have noticed a live tortoise and felt it would have been dead already to get put in a plastic bag at that point. That tortoise was dead the evening of the 19th BECAUSE OF ANDREW'S PACKAGING. Whether Eric had gone to the UPS hub (a 300 mile trip by the way) that morning or had it delivered as he did that animal was not going to be alive. ALL ON ANDREW! You can quit the UPS is a death sentence garbage too. I would bet over 90% of animals are shipped with the overnight companies and mishaps happen very little considering the volume they are handling. As I said in the other thread Delta is no better. I had a pair of Freckled monitors take a 2 day trek all over the US (literally) with Delta Dash. And 3/4 of the time when I've gone to the Detroit Delta Cargo counter my animals were being held in the warehouse area out in the elements. Your post also shows you've talked directly to Andrew about it. You have some details that are not in the other thread. Maybe Andrew should make things right with Eric instead of getting cheerleaders to try to fix his reputation.

 

[Patrick@ColorfulCreatures]

Also, no dead animal had ever produced.[/QUOTE]

I missed that somewhere while reading though this mess. Is this the case that there's never been any verification that the animal actually did in fact die?

 

[Fangthane]

Is this the case that there's never been any verification that the animal actually did in fact die?

As far as I can tell, neither ATC nor ErikL asked for proof of the respective animals' deaths. If either of them did ask, I didn't see a mention of it. I'm seriously skeptical of ATC's ex post facto excuses that not only did the tortoise ErikL sent end up dying, but that he was brokering a deal for some nameless friend. They just come across as very convenient excuses to help him do exactly what he clearly intended to do all along: Hide behind his TOS and accept no real responsibility for making his customer whole. He sure did his best to ride those rationalizations well beyond the point where the wheels fell off.

 

[Patrick@ColorfulCreatures]

As far as I can tell, neither ATC nor ErikL asked for proof of the respective animals' deaths. If either of them did ask, I didn't see a mention of it. I'm seriously skeptical of ATC's ex post facto excuses that not only did the tortoise ErikL sent end up dying, but that he was brokering a deal for some nameless friend. They just come across as very convenient excuses to help him do exactly what he clearly intended to do all along: Hide behind his TOS and accept no real responsibility for making his customer whole. He sure did his best to ride those rationalizations well beyond the point where the wheels fell off.

True enough, there were mistakes made by both parties in this transaction, but virtually every seller asks for proof of a DOA. Without proof, no one would in this business would refund.

 

[Magic]

True enough, there were mistakes made by both parties in this transaction, but virtually every seller asks for proof of a DOA. Without proof, no one would in this business would refund.

Or Andrew knew that he shipped a radiated in a crap tastic inappropriate manner and wasn't the least bit surprised it died, which is far more likely.


Think about it. An honest seller? Yeah, send them pics of the dead tort-along with today's newspaper to prove the date (or whatever) and then the honest seller refunds without question. It's in his TOS HE GUARANTEES LIVE ARRIVAL.

However, Andrew never offered a refund if the buyer showed him the dead radiated. All Andrew did was lie and LIVE UP TO BEING A BAD GUY SCUMBAG.

 

[Magic]

And really? Can you even remotely call the guy a decent person if he flipping ships an animal that can void a good amount in a plain unsealed cardboard box??? Who does that?

Too bad he was too cheap to do the right thing and spent the extra $9 on a one piece styrofoam lined box. I KNOW THE RADIATED THAT DIED BECAUSE HE DIDNT WOULD HAVE WANTED IT.