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grapefruit seed extract , wormwood , parazap ?

G

groovygeckos

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grapefruit seed extract , wormwood , parazap , beneficial bacteria(acidophilus) ?

hi been doing some reading(threads) on all of these ! ......................IS ANYONE out here using any of these products yet for their leos ? ..................................................grape seed extract sounds most promising ! ........ could it be ?............... supposedly a wide-spectrum treatment for purifying water (more or less), parasites , bacteria, and well heck "you name it , it kills it " ! and can even be used daily with no ill effect ? sounds like we have a winner !!! please? let this be true!
 
I don't think I can trust any one-size-fits-all solution considering the diversity of intestinal fauna between different species. We're talking about reptiles that have evolved different systems to deal with different environments on different continents. What may be parasitic and harmful to one animal may be beneficial to another. The best way is to have regular fecal check-ups done and have your vet prescribe specific treatments.

I don't like these types of products because they're stabs in the dark. They encourage you to treat your animals even when there may very well be no need to treat them. Not only that, but when buying into these products, you deny yourself the opportunity to learn about whatever parasitic problems you happen to be dealing with.
 
i know

thats why im asking about grapefruit seed extract , does not seem like a "one size fits all " type of product ! it is being used on humans and animals , i just wonder why we herpers have not heard more about it ? i read the website , sounds completely harmless ,and can be used for a wide variety of problems (from what i`ve read) THANK YOU !!!!i am looking for others "informed-decisions " made about G.S.E.(in particular ) OR just more information from anyone who has done research , or may be utilizing these products after very-carefull consideration ! i will be asking my herp-vet LATER TODAY also about bene-bacs, parazap ,wormwood and grapefruit seed extract (supposedly ALOT less harmfull than parasite-meds , since it will not destroy the beneficial bacterias) BUT i would still like anyones , comments, opinions , and DEFINATELY KNOWLEDGE on this subject ... thanx in advance
 
Re: i know

groovygeckos said:
i will be asking my herp-vet LATER TODAY also about bene-bacs, parazap ,wormwood and grapefruit seed extract (supposedly ALOT less harmfull than parasite-meds , since it will not destroy the beneficial bacterias)
Click to expand...

Not all parasite medications destroy beneficial bacteria. Actually, most of them don't if you're talking about the commonly used dewormers. Like I said earlier, you should identify whatever parasite problems you're dealing with so you know exactly what you're up against.

It's good that you're consulting your vet, because reading product advertisements/websites is gaining information from a biased source. Of course they make it sound good. They want you to buy the product. Maybe the reason why it's used on humans and other animals but not herps is because herps have entirely different metabolic functions than humans. :rolleyes:
 
bene-bac or nutri bac (pretty much same thing) is used to stimulate the appitite of an animal... it restores the benificial bacteria in the gut. it doesnt rid of worms parasites or any other harmful bacteria... it is generally used durring treatment and in conjunction with meds from the vet. to help stimulate the feeding response and if the animal is on antibiotics helps restore the benificial bacteria the antibiotics has killed. it is also used to help stimulate the appities of starved or starving animals whom other than weight are not ill.
 
thanx

the vet said he does not really care for grapefruit seed extract ! he did say that wormwood , or bene-bacs could not hurt , and like you said not neccessary with some meds ! as it turns out the three gex i brought in have coccidia, and 2 of those have pinworms also :angry: TERRIBLE , but at least they are being treated now ! there was no significant difference in them to point to this , just lucky i guess , that i wanted to get a "checkup" before they breed !
 
I have been an avid parazap user for my Bearded Dragons for many years and have found it to be a wonderful product.
I have a dragon that is 3 rs. old today because of the use of it when she was a very small baby.
I like to give any new herp a course of parazap upon arrival and I dust their crickets and worms with it a couple times per year.
I have used acidophillus upon occasion and I am undecided as to the results of that -I certainly didn't observe any ill effects and think that it can safely be given in place of yogurt when giving antibiotics or meds that do strip the intestinal tract.
I do have a close friend that used acidophillus with a bearded dragon that she was having some problems with and she swore that was what stimulated her appetite and got her on her way back to good health.

Alternate meds have been around for a long time and while I do agree that there is no "Easy Fix" for any condition -many of these herbal meds do work on mammals and reptiles.
I think that they can be combined with the more traditional meds that are gotten from your vet.

A fecal exam is always the start of determinng what is wrong and
I am not endorsing nor encouraging the use of such herbal meds-just saying what has seemed to have worked for me in the past

Does anyone have any scientific literature in reguard to the flora and fauna that are present in the mid digestive area of reptiles as there is a great difference as to what is present in many animals in the mouth the gut and the vent areas ?


Sandy
 
cocidia is very easily spread. and very hard to kill on surfaces like cages water bowels ect. the treatment is albon, i do not know if it cures them entirely or just caused the cocidia in leos to drop to a low level, not to effect the gecko but cocidia can kill an entire colony if precautions are not taken.
 
Albon only stops the coccidia from reproducing. It doesn't actually kill them. Only the immune system can do that, so it's important to practice extreme cleanliness.

Dan, I've had leos with coccidia show no symptoms too. That's why I get fecal tests done for ALL of my animals and never quarantine for less than 90 days (though I aim for longer than that). Make sure you replace the substrate daily. Clean everything with dishwasher detergent and rinse well. Even if you can't kill the coccidia, you can at least wash them out. Be very mindful of your quarantine procedure because you don't want this to spread to your other geckos.
 
LadyGecko said:


Does anyone have any scientific literature in reguard to the flora and fauna that are present in the mid digestive area of reptiles as there is a great difference as to what is present in many animals in the mouth the gut and the vent areas ?


Sandy
Click to expand...


thats a good question i asked kelli to look through stevens papers and stuff and ask him if he has any data on that stuff.

thank you olivia. i know that amonia kills cocidia on surfaces BUTYOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL when using it to rinse extremely well AND let the enclosure air out (because it will kill your geckos if not used correctly and rinsed well and aired out). but enclosures will have to be cleaned constantly to avoid re-contamination. make everything as possible disposable. water and food dishes hides substrate ect. i would also suggestion feeding them and cleaning them last... get your other leos checked as well and use laytex gloves in between the feeding and cleaning and handling of each animal
 
how about

rubbing alcohol ? nolvasan ? i have kept all leos and fat-tails quaranteened , and have maintained each group seperately just in case any of them had anything ! infected gex are the ones i have had the longest and are oldest(besides my year old PA`s ) had planned on having each one checked , as they grow older OR if ive seen any problems ,since i could not afford $65 dollars for each one (office visit and fecal) all at the same time ! poor guy would be with me ALL DAY for that visit ! i do plan on getting a scope ,"understanding reptile parasites" book and learn to check myself to save on office visits !! would you think ,or have found ANY vet that would not charge per visit per gecko ,for 20 + animals ????????????
 
Dan, some vets will let you drop a stool sample off without having to come in for a visit. And then some vets will include the fecal test with the price of the visit ($25-$30). If you're paying $40+ for a visit or more than $10 for a fecal, you're being ripped off. I do recommend having follow-up tests done on your infected leos just to make sure you got rid of the coccidia.

Neither Nolvasan, rubbing alcohol, nor full-strength chlorine is able to kill the coccidian parasites (including crypto). Only ammonia is, which is why some serious herpers alternate between Roccal-D and bleach between cleaning sessions. Coccidia is actually not that bad as long as you keep the upper hand. Just cleaning the tank once or twice a day will help reduce the numbers. You want to prevent your leos from re-infecting themselves because it's not good for them to be on Albon for too long.
 
Yeah, that's a bit steep. :erm:

You might want to check herpvetconnection.com and anapsid.org/vets for herp vets. The ARAV also keeps a list of vets, but some regular cat-dog vets get themselves registered just for the publicity even though they haven't had any specialized training for herps.

If you still can't find any vets, I do know some people in the Chicago area who have a couple of names to recommend, but I'll have to look them up.
 
wow has been 8 years at least

since my last vet visits with herps , guess i should have shopped around some ! not that there are many herpvets in chicago ,BUT STILL
 
was a bit shy to ask

if he can check a large collection for less , or does work from his home or something (wish i had ) :(
 
even if you had your own scope and read that book you have to understand there are seceral different strains of cocidia.... just because you can do a fecal doesnt mean you can diagnose an animal. i have had the plesure (LOL) of viewing some fecals pin worm eggs ar about the easiest thing to see but cocidia and other things look so similar even with the pictures next to you, it hardly qualifies to diagnose you own animal. and treat it... sometimes to see partial bug parts and sometimes they can get confused with something else.
but just because you get or have a scope and book, doesnt mean squat sometimes it is even hard for the vets to figure out.... the person i knew that used the scope was only for checking for pins... it takes a trained eye or some training to know what you are doing and do you plan on using a fecal smear or float?
amonia is the only thing i know of that kills cocidia 10% amonia to be exact.... and what you buy off the shelf is 10% amonia... so to kill those nastey boogers you would have to use straight amonia (yuck) and rinse VERY well and air out very well. the fumes alone could kill a leo.
bleach nor alcohol kills the cocidia... i dont think novlsan does possiblby quatricide and maybe rocal but i dont even think those do.
 
qualifies to diagnose you own animal. and treat it... well i said "LEARN TO DO IT" obviously will NOT learn that overnight , and would still continue to use a vet to double check my findings and help myself to learn ............................................just because you get or have a scope and book, doesnt mean sqat................. sure it means a whole helluva lot ! BIG difference between myself and a
so-called professional ...... I actually LOVE and care VERY much for MY own animals !!!. and i D&%$-sure will take the time to learn and I can do ANYTHING as well , if not better than anyone else ..............................................................plan on using a fecal smear or float? > float...................................possiblby quatricide and maybe rocal but i dont even think those do.. actually if rocal-D wouldnt work , neither will ammonia !! Rocal is just a brand- name given to a Quaternary Ammonia Compound
................................this so-called professional P.O.S. . , registered herpetological veterinarian , did not even inform me i would need to completely sterilize their enclosures BEFORE re-introducing the gex , did not mention ammonia at all , actually said anti-bac soap !! most information i got out of him was " give meds and good sanitation " which is a very far cry from the NEEDED daily sterilization ! and he should tell ANYONE regardless their amount of experience , all of that information that alot of people dont even know ! i mean c`mon robin are you a spokesperson for veterinary medicine ?? IF i didnt know better than what he told me or didnt i would be treating them in vain , and he would get several overpriced office-visit charges (just like he was obviously hoping for) and my geckos could even die !!!! WHO IS THIS GOOD FOR ??? HIM !!!!!!!!! NOT MYSELF OR MY PRECIOUS BABIES
 
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