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Guy Sells PEople Venomoids That Are Actually Hot

Can we say attempted murder??? I'm sure 1-800 lawyers or the DA could do a number on this guy if it is, indeed, not a venomoid.

This is why it's so important to buy venomoids from the big names! It's not worth your life.
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Can we say attempted murder??? I'm sure 1-800 lawyers or the DA could do a number on this guy if it is, indeed, not a venomoid.

This is why it's so important to buy venomoids from the big names! It's not worth your life</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Actually, it doesn't matter if the venomoid is from a "big name" or a relative unknown. A venomoid snake should be afforded the same amount of respect as it's unbutchered brethern. Anything less is just plain irresponsible.

Just because a snake has been altered, that does not mean it cannot still envenomate. Procedures such as ductal ligation & cauterization are not 100% effective, and there is the possibility of regeneration.

As for any liability, the only thing that Kevin would be liable for is selling Espedito a "defective" snake. If this snake was to envenomate Espedito, it would be his own fault for taking foolish liberties with it.

If someone handed you a gun and told you it was unloaded, would you treat it any differently than a loaded gun? Hopefully not.
 
If tito is so experienced a hot keeper why does he need a venomoid? Just wanted to know the logic behind it tito is such a nice guy and all according to this board.
 
poolsharkmd First you need to post your full name on here or your post will be deleted. Second, it is none of your concern why he would want a venomoid animal. that is his decision and his alone.  I can understand as Venomoid animals are more desired to some than HOT specimens.
 
Bob we had are disagreements.. why would you want to strum things up again? .. anyway.. i keep hots , non venomous and venomoids is of your concern waht i keep?
 
Well, it looks like I've got a lot of catching up to do! lol

Kevin.... Hot or not.... if you handle that snake in any other way but the way you would a fully venomous one.... you're nuts! You could have a stack full of documents saying that the surgery was done and was effective.... big deal! Anything can go wrong.... the glands might have actually regenerated (which, if I'm not mistaken, can happen).... the surgeon could have been a hack.... the dealer could be a scam artist.... even if the mouse doesn't die.... it is now your responsibility as to the welfare of that snake (and your family and friends) from here on out.... don't take stupid chances! If you want to be 90% sure.... and you have to have a venemoid.... take it to your vet now.... at least see if the surgery was done, and if not, at least you'll know what you need to do at that point.... all I'm saying, is just be careful!

As far as Venemoids go.... I think it's cruel! It's like declawing a cat, or taking out the vocal chords of a dog, because it barks too often (which has happened in NY! Figures, huh?).... I just don't think it's right! If you like hots.... then get hots!
The only animals I have no problem in altering before sale are Skunks, for obvious reasons! Other than that.... leave em the way you find em! ....Neil
 
Neil,
Just out of curiosity, why is it o.k. to descent a skunk but not devenomize a snake? Both procedures are performed as a means to make that particular animal a more safe or convenient pet.
Many people compare spaying or neutering your cat or dog with having a snake devenomized. However medical science has shown that spaying and neutering can prevent a whole host of illnesses in addition to preventing unwanted offspring.
On the other hand, Descenting provides no medical benefit and is simply used to make the animal more presentable to those who wish to keep them as pets.
If you think about it there is no difference between the skunk and snake. You are altering an animal because you don't feel comfortable dealing with each animals natural defenses.
Take care and welcome back!
Jackie Lapradd
 
Jackie.... I understand your point completely.... I realize about dogs and cats being neutered, we should! Besides.... we have enough Chinese restaurants as it is! lmao

I guess I'm just talking about a subtle difference in this particular case.... I agree that both procedures are pretty closely related, but, the fact that a skunk is usually purchased as a family pet that has the run of the house (at least it should), well, I don't think I have to explain that any further.... whereas a snake is in a tank with a double lock and doesn't have the run of the place! I hope! If he did, well then, OK.... devenomize it.... but, why do that to the snake if you don't really have to?? Just so you can hold it? You shouldn't hold it any differently than you would a real hot one to begin with?? To me.... snakes are just a horse of a different color and should be what they are! ....I'm not sure if I explained myself properly, but, I'm sure you got the idea I'm going with....
....Neil
 
i never claimed to want to hold the Supposed Venomoid snake i only claimed he traded me a hot snake that was supposed to be a venomoid then made repeaded lies as to where the paperwork was. i handle all venomoids the same i would a natural hot. never freehandle. better for me and the reptile. the point here isnt wheter its for holding purpose its for value i cant sell a venomoid to someone else without paperwork. I mean i could but id be know diffren then what kevin has done to me and im not about that.
 
gets even bette look at this email i recieved this morning.
----------------------------------------------------------
Email Generated by Ikonboardshadiguy1,

This email has been sent from caseynd via Ikonboard.

(http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi)

-------------------------------------------------

Espedito C. Fink hi this is casey kevins brother in law he has been useing my computer lately and it seems that he used my user name to post here i had a talk with him and he should have never posted here with out his user name so please if you can clear my name with your next posting thanks
casey christensen
the real caseynd
if you like pleases email me at [email protected] maybe i can give you some help with kevins #### he has coused thanks
casey
 
It's terrible that someone would alter an animal in such a manner. If you like venomous snakes and have experience with them, go for it! On the other hand, if someone isn't willing to deal with the risks of a venomous animal, they should stay away from them. There are plenty of non venomous species out there. It just doesn't make sense to me! If someone is experinced with venomous reptiles, why would they want a venomoid? And the people that are not experienced shouldn't own a venomoid for the simple fact that even with the surgery, there is always room for error i.e.-the surgery wasn't done correctly. I'm not lashing out at anybody, this is just the way I feel about the whole venomoid deal. I feel it's cruelty plain and simple.
Now, with my feelings aside...If this person is selling hots as venomoids, he could be held for murder if someone is bitten and dies. There are people out there that won't deal with hots but think it would be "cool" to have a rattler they could handle. Once again, these type of people shouldn't own a "venomoid" but people don't do what they should. I would hate to hear of someone buy one of these guys from a dishonost person and handle the animal like a non venomous snake....smells like disaster. One thing I don't understand, if the snake belonged to this guy, why didn't he already have the papers on hand? Like someone said earlier, you shouldn't buy venomoids from anyone you don't know. It's also no good if the vet that performed the surgery didn't know what he/she is doing.  

Christy Grayson
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now, with my feelings aside...If this person is selling hots as venomoids, he could be held for murder if someone is bitten and dies.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Negative. In this case, a seller would not be held responsible for a buyer's irresponsible actions.  If the buyer gets envenomated, that was solely as a result of his or her own foolish choice to afford the snake less respect than it deserves.

Also, to touch on an earlier point that someone else had made, I am not aware of any jurisdiction that exempts venomoids from any restrictions placed on hot snakes. On the contrary, most ordinances & statutes that I am familiar with list specific taxa that are restricted.
 
another email from KEVIN SMITHS BROTHER
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hi tito this is casey i don't know what is going on all i know is kevin asked if he could use my computer and phone.. i don't know were your snakes are if i knew i would send them back to you asap..  all i keep are corns and rat snakes i don't know were he is staying my sister and him are having proplems he was staying at his moms but i have not talked with him about a week i called his mom and she has not seen him so i don't know were he is staying or were the snakes are sorry if i do talk with him i will find out what is going on and get back with you ok thanks
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am not aware of any jurisdiction that exempts venomoids from any restrictions placed on hot snakes.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I believe you are reffering to my post. And that was not  what I said.

My specific statement was fairly clear about the fact that the community regulations (county, city, etc.) can not  become LESS restrictive than the state restrictions. But they can become MORE restrictive.

So in states allowing posession of venomous  snakes, individual communities can require further restrictions (venomous species muct be venomoids for instance). This is identical to many states that have premit  requirements for  10 feet plus... and individual counties or towns within the state  requiring  some form of permit for snakes over six feet (ridiculously low but it's a number  town caouncils seem to like).

Individual communities can also restrict you from ownership  outright,  regardless of  the state permitation... Especially where Hots are concerned.
 
Shame on you for buying from him! That is what this board is here for, did you think all the complaints he has were a joke?! He is trash!
I know he has several fraud complaints against him. If the hots were advertised on kingsnake complain there. I also filed on him with the Postal Inspector and the FBI Internet Fraud task force.
He thinks everything will go away just because these big agencies are slow. They will get around to him, the cases I have are all still open and pending.
With so many good herpers around why do business with trash? I'll never understand why people put themselves in these positions.
Good luck with it!  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>
 
TIT(0),
Topic should really read, "I got sent a venomoid and I am still scared to death of it".  I am sorry for posting under a different user name, I was using my brother in law's computer and I forgot to log out and use my username.  But that is really just another little thing that you are using to slander me, If you took the time to notice, I did sign MY name, so it doesn't matter.  I will post a scanned copy of a statement from the person that did the surgery, that should calm you down.  I was emailed the first day that the snake arrived with you saying " DUDE, I THINK IT'S HOT"  but you posted it for sale as a venomoid anyways.  IF you truly thought that, than why would you post it for sale regardless of what I said, I would put someone's life in jeopardy.  When you get the paperwork, take some of these respondant's advice and post a  copy of it on here.  But you probably won't, wouldn't want to make yourself look like an @$$ after the fit you have thrown, huh?

And FOR MR HOUSTON,
It kind of figures that you would jump in here JEFF, You are just as big of spaz as Tito.  We have dealt with the problems, but you threw a fit, ran your mouth, before I had a chance to deal with you, so you ended the deal yourself.  GO BACK TO SELLING USED POOLS,CARS, OR WHATEVER THE HECK YOU DO.

 <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> Kevin Smith
 
kevin give it a rest ur a scammer and have claims open against you from what i have heard now.. your right i did put the snake up as a venomoiud and if u read some of my other posts i couldnt sell it do to the fact u couldnt provide paperwork for it. as i said in the begining i wanted the paperwork or now deal. You are a scammer and once again you have scammed me and you have scammed other people in the past.
 
ps- Kevin its easy to have documents made after the fact its only taken you what 3 weeks now. you can send me whatever you want its a hotsnake i know and you know it too. So u can scan and send whatever you want i will sell the snake for what it really is "HOT"
 
Oh, SO NOW THE PAPERWORK DOESN'T MATTER?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> What the hell did you start all this crap for?  When the paperwork arrives, I am done with you.  I have witnesses that it was sent, so don't try to throw it away and say you didn't get it.  The snake is fixed, it doesn't matter how much you say it is hot, it won't magically regain the ability to envenomate! IF you are that paranoid, then only keep hots, leave the venomoids alone.  You can try to do whatever you feel will satisfy your little paranoia problem.  Did you ever do what I said to test it? Stick a large mouse in the cage with it, make sure that the mouse is hit on the hind half of its body. Then wait and see if the mouse dies.   If the mouse doesn't, you have your answer.  You tried to feed it a fuzzy, the snake probably punctured the heart or lungs,ect.  Thus the reasoning for it dying.  USE A LITTLE LOGIC and understand that the mouse is being pierced by fangs and that can kill a mouse just the same.  GIVE IT A REST, TAKE YOUR PAPERWORK, FILE IT, AND GIVE IT A REST!
Kevin Smith <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
 
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