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Have I screwed up beyond help??

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Sssnakemom31

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I feel like an idiot, but I hope it is reversable. I am looking for help with my young black-throated monitor.

I got him 2 weeks ago at a local reptile show. He was docile and curious but not even remotely agressive. No, he wasn't cold. He has good weight, good skin, good everything you are supposed to check for.

The mistake I made is this: thinking it would be good if he associated me with good things (like food), I cup-fed him some roaches, and let him crawl into my lap to eat a dish of diced raw stuff ... did this a couple of times. Well ...

This is where you say "DUH!" and where I get red. Now, when I pick him up, he gets very intense, wanting to sniff me closely, and even has opened his mouth like he was going to bite my arm! I was totally dumbstruck the first time he did it, and put it down to having recently cleaned my ratties' cage, and maybe he smelled that - and yes, he may have. But I was freshly showered today when I did it, and same behavior.

Today, I just put a dish on the floor and he came out of his cage and ate. I don't want him to ingest substrate, so figured this was better than what I HAD done, anyway. But after that, when I picked him up, same thing! I carefully put him back into his cage, and was near to tears.

I got this guy because of his calm, laid-back demeanor. I fully intended to handle him often, and keep him sweet. Now, I feel that because he thinks of me and food synonymously, I messed up this good relationship!

Please don't berate me, I've done a ton of that to myself already. After doing more reading, I see what I did was set this up to happen. What I need is help to UNdo this, and get our good rapport back. Can that happen? PLEASE help!!
 

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I thought I recognized that username! Hi Kathy!

I didn't know you bought a monitor lizard, but he looks pretty cute and generally calm. I'm no specialist with monitors, but is it possible you could spray some of that bitter apple stuff for dogs and cats on yourself to dissuade him from licking you/biting you? Just enough to give him the idea that you're not food and condition him to think as much. Just a thought, though I don't have monitors so other opinions would likely be better than mine. :)
 
I'd suggest just to continue NOT to 'hand feed' him. He should eventually stop associating you with food. And, of course, be sure not to smell like his food either.

I'm not sure how safe the bitter apple stuff is for reps, but you could also try just hand sanitizer. I know I hate the smell of that stuff, lol! Good luck!
 
Sounds like normal young monitor behavior, to me...so, what's the problem? :shrug01:


(Yes, I read your post)
 
Using ANY "spraying" solution is utter nonsense, and a terrible suggestion, sorry but this is not a mammal.

Your blackthroat like Mr.Moore stated is acting normal. It's great he/she has a great feeding response and this can be used to your advantage by beginning to target feed your captive.
This is achieved with long forceps and having him/her chase their prey keeping their focus on the prey item and not you. Another idea is using a bowl just for feeding purposes. I use this with both of my adult Nile monitors with zero problems. In a short amount of time your captive will learn feeding regimens.

Remember you have a carnivorous reptile, not a cuddly mammal - at optimum captive care they are always hungry, NOT aggresive..give your lizard time, they learn after awhile you feed them and begin to develop readable patterns. Blackthroats over time can be very docile, but they are still reptiles - with zero human emotion..
 
I'm not being "snappy'. By your own addmission you stated

" I'm no specialist with monitors, but is it possible you could spray some of that bitter apple stuff " and "though I don't have monitors so other opinions would likely be better than mine"

My statement was the fact that is a terrible suggestion..not an attack or snappy reply.
 
Mixed bag ...

I realize everyone has differing levels of knowledge and experience, and I thank Justine, TreeCroc and Katie for your suggestions to help me with Zali.

People come here from all experience levels, and it would be great if the general attitude was helpful, and not critical. I appreciate Justine's honesty, and may have tried that Bitter Apple myself - it wasn't a bad idea in theory. I understand that behavior modification is where I want to go with Zali, and to that end, any other ideas would be appreciated as well. He was a really laid-back and docile guy when I brought him home, and I goofed up by feeding him on my lap ... I wish I could undo that, but I can't!

So please, be kind to everyone else, even if they aren't as experienced as you are. I think it's what a forum is for, and it is why I came here to ask for help.
 
I am wondering if sometimes they seem very docile at shows because the temps are lower and they are very stressed now that he is feeling better he is behaving more like a monitor. I would think just not hand feeding him anymore would help. I think it takes quite a bit of time for monitors to mellow out. I have a few sub adult tegus I got I amstill working with them they are still huffy and standoffish. I would say feed him and let him chill out trying the feeding tongs.
 
Actually, he is doing better!

Since I began setting the dish on the floor, and then opening his cage door for him to come out and eat. After that, when I pick him up, he doesn't whip around to see if I am/have food now. YAY!! I can also reach in and scratch his neck and head without him whipping his head around too. Making strides!!
 
Progress is always exciting. My 3 foot red tegu I recently got did not thrash around like an alligator today when I took him to the tub. Keep at it they are supposed to be great monitors.
 
Thanks, Lisa! Yes, baby steps - they are great, especially in the right direction!! I feel the same with my young Savanna, he actually comes out to greet me now when I open his door - granted, it's because he wants food - LOL - but he doesn't huff at me anymore, and I can pick him up with no problems. Same for my baby Argentine Tegu - he still huffs a little but he isn't near as thrashy as he used to be when I first pick him up!! Gotta love these guys - they are like having real children, all the learning you do being their parent!! :)
 
Welcome to monitor husbandry. Many view these animals in a completely hands off manner, unless they need to. Some inbetween, and then there are people who want nothing but to play with it, and take it around with them, etc etc.

Monitors are smart, and for mine I used exclusively tong feeding for the vast majority of feeding. They learned to assosciate the tongs with food. I also use dishes occasionally for things like ground turkey or fish pieces. The goal is for the monitor to never view your being as a source of food. If your monitor always assosciates you with food, you will have an interesting reaction with your captive. Get him to assosciate a myriad of things with food, and keep up things like touching him occasionally, changing water, moving substrate for cleaning etc.

I've been doing things like this with my year old almost 4 foot nile, I rarely handle, I hand feed him rodents with 0 issues, and he has never actually bit me. Well, unless you count having to rush in and grab him all of a sudden durring a very bad storm to ensure his saftey- he nipped me. I have 4 monitors, none of which offer any sort of biting.

-Mike
 
Welcome to the world of black throat monitors:) They are eating machines, food addicts, garbage cans, etc. Ive owned several species and nothing ive seen comes close to the black throats drive to consume. Thats exactly what happened with mine when he was about the size of yours. He slowly reached out and tried to take a bite out of my gf's thigh. Its hunger motivated, not aggression. We, as keepers, have the unfortunate condition of being made out of stuff monitors like to eat:)
For sure try to disassociate your hands with food, this is the very reason we use tongs.
 
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