Have You guys Actually read this thing?

[FLAherper]

http://kingsnake.com/us_final_python_rulemaking.pdf
Checkout the link to the final ruling, its huge btw Im through about half of it.

2 things standing out to me right now that you geniuses could clear up.
I live in Florida, and already have laws about these species. They say in the document they took wild caught snakes from the everglades and took them to more temeperate climates and they died.
Yet they still deserve a injurious? They went to South Carolina, Texas and others and ALL snakes died. Come on. Why is the federal goverment going to step in on this now.

ALso I know its only down to 4 species right now (which btw still sucks, I hope USARK is going to work, and congrats on getting the other species dropped but we shouldnt even be talking about a bill like this...and some of the other species I dont understand but to my 2nd point.


Of the nine large constrictor snakes assessed by Reed and Rodda (2009)
(Burmese python (which the authors refer to as Indian python), reticulated python,
Northern African python, Southern African python, boa constrictor, yellow anaconda,
DeSchauensee’s anaconda, green anaconda, and Beni anaconda), five were shown to pose
a high risk to the health of the ecosystem, including the Burmese python, Northern African python, Southern African python, yellow anaconda, and boa constrictor. The
remaining four large constrictors—the reticulated python, green anaconda, Beni
anaconda, and DeSchauensee’s anaconda—were shown to pose a medium risk.

This is pulled directly from the ruling and is saying BOA CONSTRICTORS are high threat, people the law being put into action is for high threat. If any species is on the chopping block I would guess its the boa constrictor.
So I ask is USARK positive weve stopped the attack on those 5 species? Even though the boa is listed as High damage. Because it is not a smart political move to remove part of group from a law, and fight that later on.
If you guys have to fight another battle like this with the burmese, african rock etc sales illegal. It WILL BE HARDER.
Im all for you guys, but the legislation counter isnt going up fast enough. And I havent been hearing alot. Thankyou.

 

[WebSlave]

Absolutely!

There is just no way in hell that those species listed are a threat on the federal level. There are only a few spots within the entire USA that they could EVER possibly pose even a limited LOCAL threat because the environment over most of the USA is not conducive to them surviving a single Winter season, much less becoming established.

Since the scientists who have reviewed the facts HAVE to know this, then the decision has to be completely politically oriented with either money or political favors, or BOTH being the medium of exchange.

 

[FLAherper]

Lol at least someone else has put the effort into reading this.
It so stupid because WE already have laws in place (Im in Fl) The People who have the freaking problem.....we dont need this at the federal level.
Im going to be intrested at others responses to this tommorow. USARK(cough cough)

And its not as big as people think either, I love how they say they have no idea of knowing the numbers and then give a solid estimate. Ive visted the everglades multiple times last summer and its DEF a prob. But dont tell me there is 10,000 snakes there.

 

[Metachrosis]

Slowly....... ever so slowly there comes an awakening

 

[Double B Reptiles]

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/keyword/burmese-python

Sad part is, you can fight ignorance with knowledge and fact, but when the media is the ignorance, ignorance spreads like a plague and drowns the knowledge. It is absolutely ridiculous. Can someone send me the link to the petition to sign?

 

[Cat_72]

Brendan - all you have to do is look at the top of the page here....Rich has conveniently put it up as a clickable link in a big red banner. It says, "Please sign the White House petition to overturn the python ban by clicking here!"

 

[Double B Reptiles]

Ahhhh yes. Thank you Cathy! Now only to get rid of my blindness hahaha. Petition signed. I wish I had places to post the link. Hmmmm. Any ideas? we have a long way to go.

 

[Cat_72]

It's ok...it's late.

I suppose other than forums, the social networking sites are an option....I know people have been posting it on Craigslist....and of course email. From there, even printing it out and presenting it to local pet shops, vets, etc isn't a bad idea. I know that I am surprised that there aren't more signatures on it already...even just from this forum alone. Look how many members there are here, combine that with even a couple of other big forums like KS, and you'd think we would have it in the bag. I just don't know.

 

[HerpVenue]

That is why we were fighting it on the scientific level.

Their results showed that OUR side was correct. But they turned it around and said the snakes they got were dumb and there are smarter snakes out there who can survive blah blah blah.

I am not a scientist. But I worked for A LOT of them in my military career.
If your experimental group dies and you needed them to survive in order to prove your point....... then your point becomes null and void. In other words you FAIL. In other words try a different angle because the one you are working on is not working too well.

 

[WebSlave]

Pretty typical in some scientific circles. If the data disputes your pet theory (or the theory you were PAID to prove), discard that pesky data......

 

[snakemansam]

Please excuse my ignorance here...but at this point can even the President overturn or veto this thing?

 

[AbsoluteApril]

I scanned it before but reading through it now... (makes me shake my fist in the air)

On the very same page (11) they state evolution will allow the snakes to thrive "If thermoregulatory behavior or tolerance to cold is genetically based, we would expect large constrictor snake populations to persist, rebound, and possibly increase their genetic fitness and temperature tolerance as a result of natural selection pressures"

then in the next paragraph "Pythons can seek such refugia as underground burrows, deep water in canals, or similar microhabitats to escape the cold temperatures. Those snakes that survived in Florida were apparently able to maintain body temperatures using microhabitat features of the landscape"

...meaning they were not adapting to the cold but finding a way around it.

Plus the entire point that there are populations of boids in Mexico that have been there for decades and have not 'evolved' to survive the temps and migrate north into the US.

ugh.
ok... well back I go to reading and getting incensed

 

[WebSlave]

I scanned it before but reading through it now... (makes me shake my fist in the air)

On the very same page (11) they state evolution will allow the snakes to thrive "If thermoregulatory behavior or tolerance to cold is genetically based, we would expect large constrictor snake populations to persist, rebound, and possibly increase their genetic fitness and temperature tolerance as a result of natural selection pressures"

then in the next paragraph "Pythons can seek such refugia as underground burrows, deep water in canals, or similar microhabitats to escape the cold temperatures. Those snakes that survived in Florida were apparently able to maintain body temperatures using microhabitat features of the landscape"

...meaning they were not adapting to the cold but finding a way around it.

Plus the entire point that there are populations of boids in Mexico that have been there for decades and have not 'evolved' to survive the temps and migrate north into the US.

ugh.
ok... well back I go to reading and getting incensed

Hmm, so I guess we can expect opossums to evolve enough to be able to survive being run over by automobiles sometime soon as well?

 

[snowgyre]

On the very same page (11) they state evolution will allow the snakes to thrive "If thermoregulatory behavior or tolerance to cold is genetically based, we would expect large constrictor snake populations to persist, rebound, and possibly increase their genetic fitness and temperature tolerance as a result of natural selection pressures"

then in the next paragraph "Pythons can seek such refugia as underground burrows, deep water in canals, or similar microhabitats to escape the cold temperatures. Those snakes that survived in Florida were apparently able to maintain body temperatures using microhabitat features of the landscape"

...meaning they were not adapting to the cold but finding a way around it.

As one who has written scientific papers before in wildlife ecology, I understand the meaning behind what the authors said here so please let me clarify. They are essentially saying that animals that do not seek refuge or change their thermoregulatory behavior will die under extreme conditions. That means that only the ones who have that particular behavior will survive to reproduce, which, over time, will increase the cold tolerance of those snakes through ingrained shelter-seeking behaviors.

Hope that helps.

 

[Lair of Dragons]

I scanned it before but reading through it now... (makes me shake my fist in the air)

On the very same page (11) they state evolution will allow the snakes to thrive "If thermoregulatory behavior or tolerance to cold is genetically based, we would expect large constrictor snake populations to persist, rebound, and possibly increase their genetic fitness and temperature tolerance as a result of natural selection pressures"

Plus the entire point that there are populations of boids in Mexico that have been there for decades and have not 'evolved' to survive the temps and migrate north into the US.

Hmmmmmm...are snakes not prehistoric...haven't they had 67 MILLION YEARS to evolve to increase their genetic fitness...what they are going to do it now...within the next decade or two...wouldn't they choose legs first instead of the ability to adapt to cold ...really.
Travis
Lair of Dragons

 

[salottimc]

I don't see these snakes expanding the geographic range in Asia. This science is absurd. They already inhabit the areas in which they can survive. Many died during the last Florida cold snap, so even Florida isn't a good habitat for them.

 

[Lair of Dragons]

Lets talk evolution....if you were a snake and wanted to evolve wouldn't you choose maybe a second totally functional lung or a diaphragm so when you get sick you could cough up mucus...how are the scientist that predicted the the possibility of:
"large constrictor snake populations to persist, rebound, and possibly increase their genetic fitness and temperature tolerance as a result of natural selection pressures"
Really want to know.
Travis
Lair of Dragons

 

[snowgyre]

I didn't say I agreed with the conclusion. That would obviously take place over such extended periods of time as to make any kind of management recommendation virtually meaningless. I was just trying to translate the thought behind it. My name isn't on that paper. ;-)

 

[Lair of Dragons]

I know you didn't write it but I just wanted to know who did....
Travis

 

[WebSlave]

I know you didn't write it but I just wanted to know who did....
Travis

Quite likely a "researcher" getting sizeable grants from HSUS to massage their "research" to reach a predefined conclusion, and upon which the grant money was contingent upon, if I had to venture a guess..........