How many of you actually think teenagers kicked out of the theatres or adults expelled from a stadium because of their belligerent attitude, actually are escorted to the ticket counter for a refund?
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Having trouble with Kingsnake.com Help Please!! Sorry, kind of long
- Thread starter Adam Block
- Start date
How many of you actually think teenagers kicked out of the theatres or adults expelled from a stadium because of their belligerent attitude, actually are escorted to the ticket counter for a refund?
Uffern
Mental Midget
Joel, what relevance to the thread does your post have? Are you just trying to be inflammatory?
Dan, you know, you made a good point. Jeff is pretty much covered to do what he wants to who he wants. It does not, however, say that they reserve the right to waive the TOS at their discretion. While I do agree that Adam seemed to have the intention of butting heads with Jeff, I am defending the position that Jeff's willingness to terminate people's accounts at the slightest hint of anything other than total aquiescence is unprofessional and at worst infantile. Jeff may have been completely within his rights to boot Adam (at least technically), but his flippant approach to his site's users would not be tolerated at any other site. Jeff acts as though he is the biggest thing in herps, and casts his users aside as though they mean nothing. I'm not so much defending Adam as I am the viewpoint on KS and Jeff.
Dan, you know, you made a good point. Jeff is pretty much covered to do what he wants to who he wants. It does not, however, say that they reserve the right to waive the TOS at their discretion. While I do agree that Adam seemed to have the intention of butting heads with Jeff, I am defending the position that Jeff's willingness to terminate people's accounts at the slightest hint of anything other than total aquiescence is unprofessional and at worst infantile. Jeff may have been completely within his rights to boot Adam (at least technically), but his flippant approach to his site's users would not be tolerated at any other site. Jeff acts as though he is the biggest thing in herps, and casts his users aside as though they mean nothing. I'm not so much defending Adam as I am the viewpoint on KS and Jeff.
No richard my post has no relavance like about 8 of the pages here... It's simple. It's Jeff's site. You play childish games you get booted. It's rather simple... YOu don't like Jeff or his ways then build a better site, promote it, and then you can then make your own rules...
Work harder guys if not the record won't be set.. People come on post more irrelevant posts or we won't make it... Keep posting your thoughts over the ones here chances are your not repeating what 9 pages of people have said now lets get this thing to 10 by tonight!!!!!!!!
Work harder guys if not the record won't be set.. People come on post more irrelevant posts or we won't make it... Keep posting your thoughts over the ones here chances are your not repeating what 9 pages of people have said now lets get this thing to 10 by tonight!!!!!!!!
I'll shoot for a question that might not have been asked:
Adam states in his first post that he's offering cheaper alternatives to some products and lists a few. I've got to admit I share the opinion that there are a lot of inexpensive ways to get the same results and, in many cases, buy the same products cheaper when not repackaged as pet or reptile products.
However, I have a few problems with the specifics, so maybe you can clear these up, Adam:
1. Regarding thermometers, thermostats, etc. Many herp supply vendors offer these items at a substantial markup, and the implication seems to be that this is a ripoff. Someone else has mentioned that one thing you pay for is convenience. I wonder if you've taken into account that most herp supply vendors are not nearly as big as other outlets for these items, and in many cases their wholesale orders aren't large enough to give them a substantial discount, if any at all? Sure, you can save by shopping around, but that doesn't mean that the vendors offering things that are a bit over priced by comparison are out to rip anyone off, which seems to be the implication.
2. Specifically: Pro Exotics' Virosan. You state that they sell it pre-mixed and that in mixed form it has a much shorter shelf life. Are you referring to their internet business or their in-store sales? From the context, I'd have to assume you're referring to internet sales. I've ordered Virosan (which is actually the same thing as Novalsan) from Pro Exotics, and it comes in dilute form, with a water bottle, not pre-mixed. It's a bit more expensive than the gallon jug, but considering that many people don't need a gallon supply of the stuff (as it happens I do, but ordered it to try it out) and that it can be a bit of a pain to find a supplier, and that the service from Pro Exotics is top notch, AND (last and, I promise) that the bottle is pretty high quality, big deal. So, you could get the same bottle and a similar amount of the dilute solution for about three bucks. So, PE is getting a whopping five bucks markup. I wouldn't grudge them that at all. I've talked to Robin several times, and you couldn't ask to meet a more helpful person in this hobby. The guy will answer any and all questions put to him, and his turn around time for responding, even though he's very busy, is unbeatable. I'd be willing to bet if a customer asked them if they could get the stuff cheaper b/c they needed it bulk, that Robin wouldn't hesitate to point them in the right direction. So, if you want to slam Pro Exotics for selling some items that aren't their core stock (their internet sales do NOT focus on supplies), at least get the facts straight. They don't store the stuff as a solution, they're not that stupid.
3. You mentioned Disposable Cage Liners. Those things are kind of pricey. I use cheaper stuff myself. However, you're comparing what you can get from their supplier to their cost, and again, the implication is that DCL is ripping their customers off. Have you forgotten that there is overhead involved in running a business? Have you asked yourself, or them, if they keep their pre-cut sizes in stock? If so, they are paying up front to maintain a certain level of inventory, they are paying taxes on unsold inventory at year end, they are carrying the storage and insurance expenses for the business, and they are paying salaries of staff. They are very likely incurring extra expenses to provide a service of pre-sized, and I would hope readily available, cage liners. Why gripe if they're getting a markup on that? They will charge what the market will bear, and there's nothing wrong with doing so.
Maybe your only intent is to provide some smart shopping tips for fellow herpers so that they can save money. That's a worthy goal, and one I fully endorse. However, you seem intent on villifying these vendors who have done not one thing wrong or unethical by offering their products and services. You attack them by posting your list where they are doing business on KS, an apparent deliberate attempt to turn customers away from them. Offering savings tips is commendable, but deliberately attempting to damage someone's business is not. There's a fine line there, but I don't think it's too hard to see. It seems from what you've said that you were intent on crossing THAT line, regardless of your beef with KS, from the start. If I were running a classifieds site, I'd terminate your account for making these kinds of direct attacks on fellow vendors immediately.
I don't like the way JeffB runs his site, either, but whatever your opinion of his site, your attack on other vendors on that site is not excusable. If you don't like the way someone conducts their business, the solution is to not patronize their business, not attack other customers.
Perhaps your comments on some of these products and vendors aren't meant as harshly as they sound; if so, please explain your reasoning.
Adam states in his first post that he's offering cheaper alternatives to some products and lists a few. I've got to admit I share the opinion that there are a lot of inexpensive ways to get the same results and, in many cases, buy the same products cheaper when not repackaged as pet or reptile products.
However, I have a few problems with the specifics, so maybe you can clear these up, Adam:
1. Regarding thermometers, thermostats, etc. Many herp supply vendors offer these items at a substantial markup, and the implication seems to be that this is a ripoff. Someone else has mentioned that one thing you pay for is convenience. I wonder if you've taken into account that most herp supply vendors are not nearly as big as other outlets for these items, and in many cases their wholesale orders aren't large enough to give them a substantial discount, if any at all? Sure, you can save by shopping around, but that doesn't mean that the vendors offering things that are a bit over priced by comparison are out to rip anyone off, which seems to be the implication.
2. Specifically: Pro Exotics' Virosan. You state that they sell it pre-mixed and that in mixed form it has a much shorter shelf life. Are you referring to their internet business or their in-store sales? From the context, I'd have to assume you're referring to internet sales. I've ordered Virosan (which is actually the same thing as Novalsan) from Pro Exotics, and it comes in dilute form, with a water bottle, not pre-mixed. It's a bit more expensive than the gallon jug, but considering that many people don't need a gallon supply of the stuff (as it happens I do, but ordered it to try it out) and that it can be a bit of a pain to find a supplier, and that the service from Pro Exotics is top notch, AND (last and, I promise) that the bottle is pretty high quality, big deal. So, you could get the same bottle and a similar amount of the dilute solution for about three bucks. So, PE is getting a whopping five bucks markup. I wouldn't grudge them that at all. I've talked to Robin several times, and you couldn't ask to meet a more helpful person in this hobby. The guy will answer any and all questions put to him, and his turn around time for responding, even though he's very busy, is unbeatable. I'd be willing to bet if a customer asked them if they could get the stuff cheaper b/c they needed it bulk, that Robin wouldn't hesitate to point them in the right direction. So, if you want to slam Pro Exotics for selling some items that aren't their core stock (their internet sales do NOT focus on supplies), at least get the facts straight. They don't store the stuff as a solution, they're not that stupid.
3. You mentioned Disposable Cage Liners. Those things are kind of pricey. I use cheaper stuff myself. However, you're comparing what you can get from their supplier to their cost, and again, the implication is that DCL is ripping their customers off. Have you forgotten that there is overhead involved in running a business? Have you asked yourself, or them, if they keep their pre-cut sizes in stock? If so, they are paying up front to maintain a certain level of inventory, they are paying taxes on unsold inventory at year end, they are carrying the storage and insurance expenses for the business, and they are paying salaries of staff. They are very likely incurring extra expenses to provide a service of pre-sized, and I would hope readily available, cage liners. Why gripe if they're getting a markup on that? They will charge what the market will bear, and there's nothing wrong with doing so.
Maybe your only intent is to provide some smart shopping tips for fellow herpers so that they can save money. That's a worthy goal, and one I fully endorse. However, you seem intent on villifying these vendors who have done not one thing wrong or unethical by offering their products and services. You attack them by posting your list where they are doing business on KS, an apparent deliberate attempt to turn customers away from them. Offering savings tips is commendable, but deliberately attempting to damage someone's business is not. There's a fine line there, but I don't think it's too hard to see. It seems from what you've said that you were intent on crossing THAT line, regardless of your beef with KS, from the start. If I were running a classifieds site, I'd terminate your account for making these kinds of direct attacks on fellow vendors immediately.
I don't like the way JeffB runs his site, either, but whatever your opinion of his site, your attack on other vendors on that site is not excusable. If you don't like the way someone conducts their business, the solution is to not patronize their business, not attack other customers.
Perhaps your comments on some of these products and vendors aren't meant as harshly as they sound; if so, please explain your reasoning.
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Man your really looking to make enimies, arent you Adam? Ok you have been hear whinning all this time about how you were trying to help people get stuff cheaper from the wholesalers instead of the higher prices from retailers. Well heres what you did wrong
then you violated
Now on to the topic of my ads, I dont see anywhere in the TOS it says I cannot post wanted ads in the correct section. It may have been removed but there used to be a page you had to read when you posted and it said something along the lines of " these sections are for sale/wanted ads" thats not a direct qoute as I cannot find it. I may be over looking it or it may have been removed but from what I can see my ads you posted are not in direct violation. If they are and get deleted you know what I politly email and ask why. You want to know what Ill get back, an email with the same respect in it I gave them. Same as what happened to you, your were treated with the same resect you gave them, you disrespected them and they deleted your acount. Sounds like a very fair trade to me.
And just to clear this "they dont ban people who spend more money then I" nonsense, I spend $54 and change with them every year and not a penny more! Ive dealt with and spoken directly with at least 1/2 dozen of the people who work for kingsnake on various issues. Everyone of them including Jeff and every time I dealt with them they treated me like I was spending a $1,000,000 with them every year. You really want to know why? Because I treated them with the respect they deserved. And I know someone is bound to jump in here and say "look at the suck up", Im not sucking up at all, that was my experiance with them, plain and simple!
So Adam save your breath I could care less why you think I am violating TOS. You know your really begining to remind me of that 17yr old kid on the other forum who made an a$$ out of himself and alienated everyone because he claimed he was afraid hed rip people off and they only way for him to save himself was by ruining his name. although I do have to give him a little credit because even he acted more adult like then you.
Direct from Kingsnakes TOS, so you understand this lets reveiw. Your ads were not for any products you yourself are selling. which violates
because what you were doing with your list was advertising for other companies. That not the only term you violated with that post you also violated
then you violated
When you decided to act like a jerk to Jeff and send that email. So 1st you advertise for other companies a direct violation under not one but two terms of service, your ad was deleted and you were warned. Then you acted like a jerk to Jeff when he gave you a second chance, then you were kicked from the site. Now onto the issue of you whinning about your refund
Direct from their TOS. As someone above said you dont get your money back for getting your self kicked out of a game and theres NO reason kingsnake should refund you. Also did it ever dawn on you that people complained about the way you treated them and you super slow shipping. I didnt formally file a complaint but I spoke over the phone with them, gave them you name and asked how to go about it. So maybe someon else did file a formal complaint and you were also in violation of
and maybe the people you admitted to earlier in this thread that sent you animals that you never paid for or what ever it was I rember theres was two people you hadnt made good with. Maybe they filed formal complaints and you were also in violation of
. So lets see right there total we have what 5 or 6 violations, just a thought.
Now on to the topic of my ads, I dont see anywhere in the TOS it says I cannot post wanted ads in the correct section. It may have been removed but there used to be a page you had to read when you posted and it said something along the lines of " these sections are for sale/wanted ads" thats not a direct qoute as I cannot find it. I may be over looking it or it may have been removed but from what I can see my ads you posted are not in direct violation. If they are and get deleted you know what I politly email and ask why. You want to know what Ill get back, an email with the same respect in it I gave them. Same as what happened to you, your were treated with the same resect you gave them, you disrespected them and they deleted your acount. Sounds like a very fair trade to me.
And just to clear this "they dont ban people who spend more money then I" nonsense, I spend $54 and change with them every year and not a penny more! Ive dealt with and spoken directly with at least 1/2 dozen of the people who work for kingsnake on various issues. Everyone of them including Jeff and every time I dealt with them they treated me like I was spending a $1,000,000 with them every year. You really want to know why? Because I treated them with the respect they deserved. And I know someone is bound to jump in here and say "look at the suck up", Im not sucking up at all, that was my experiance with them, plain and simple!
So Adam save your breath I could care less why you think I am violating TOS. You know your really begining to remind me of that 17yr old kid on the other forum who made an a$$ out of himself and alienated everyone because he claimed he was afraid hed rip people off and they only way for him to save himself was by ruining his name. although I do have to give him a little credit because even he acted more adult like then you.
Adam Block
New member
Jason, it says ads can only be placed in their section. The section for wanted ads would be the wanted section as Jeff has from my understanding and the deletion of my own wanted ads changed that rule. So by your own words you should loose your account just as I had.
Brian, you're correct for the most part on the way PE ships that product however they don't tell the customers to my knowledge that it must or should be used the same day it's mixed. So that one is my error.
I don't have any issues with business, or for that matter any of the businesses that were selling the same products. A few of the posts on this page stand to show people are willing to pay more for the same product if they feel there's a good reason, I.E. customer service, quicker shipping or whatever. I agree with that and many times have bought from a third party to have added service.
On the same line, my ad was no more out of line then Big Apples and I don't expect their account to go away. I'm not saying those posts should have their accounts deleted; I'm only trying to point out Jeff's hair trigger temper. And biased deletion of ads to suit his own needs.
As I've said before, TOS do not allow you to break the laws. I'm not saying the Jeff has or hasn't however. If a TOS page says the owner of the site can kill you if you violate TOS does that give him that right? What if it says he can sue you for $100,000? Would he win that case? How about if it just said he could take away your livelihood? Who's side do you think the law would be on? Jeff is basically saying that if you don't do as he says he will take away your livelihood or the 90% of it that Kingsnake.com's hits account for.
Somebody had mentioned hits to their site. I would like to touch on that and point something out.
Somebody had a poll on their site and it showed kingsnake.com accounted for 60%+ of their hits. However! Kingsnake.com accounted for 90%+ of their sales. Meaning that 60% of the people accounted for 90% of the sales.
There are other sites out there but they're not pulling the sales kingsnake.com is. Jeff and his site is the key to doing well in this business. Many of us have trusted Jeff with our time and money and he has abused that trust. He has grown off of our hard work and now has turned on many of us.
I don't think that's okay! I don't think he should have been given the power he has! It's looking like he doesn't really care about us and to be honest, the thing that upset me the most was this quote.
Another great Quote from Jeff:
Jeff didn't say we, our, the herp community or anything else along those lines. He doesn’t seem to see this as a site for us to enjoy. From the looks of his quotes and action he sees this as something for him to grow and to make money off. I don't think the livelihood of so many should rest on the shoulder of somebody who seems to have his and not our best interests at heart! Or at he very least not somebody who makes that as clear as he does!
Also, please read the following chat; there is some fairly scary stuff in there including his intentions for the future.
http://www.kingsnake.com/chat/011214_jeffb.htm
Here are just a few key quotes:
"Moderators will kick/ban users for violating posted rules."
Does this guy go anyplace without saying this?
"my lack of social skills"
JEFF!! If you know this why are you allowing yourself to do your business so much harm!! Let somebody else handle the customers!!! JEFF, JEFF, JEFF!! It's even worse that you know this!
"I see us limiting ourselves to the pet industry but expanding into more media formats such as radio television and film"
Okay that scares me! It's enough that he has the control he does over the herp hobby but to expand that control! Ouch!
Adam Block
Brian, you're correct for the most part on the way PE ships that product however they don't tell the customers to my knowledge that it must or should be used the same day it's mixed. So that one is my error.
I don't have any issues with business, or for that matter any of the businesses that were selling the same products. A few of the posts on this page stand to show people are willing to pay more for the same product if they feel there's a good reason, I.E. customer service, quicker shipping or whatever. I agree with that and many times have bought from a third party to have added service.
On the same line, my ad was no more out of line then Big Apples and I don't expect their account to go away. I'm not saying those posts should have their accounts deleted; I'm only trying to point out Jeff's hair trigger temper. And biased deletion of ads to suit his own needs.
As I've said before, TOS do not allow you to break the laws. I'm not saying the Jeff has or hasn't however. If a TOS page says the owner of the site can kill you if you violate TOS does that give him that right? What if it says he can sue you for $100,000? Would he win that case? How about if it just said he could take away your livelihood? Who's side do you think the law would be on? Jeff is basically saying that if you don't do as he says he will take away your livelihood or the 90% of it that Kingsnake.com's hits account for.
Somebody had mentioned hits to their site. I would like to touch on that and point something out.
Somebody had a poll on their site and it showed kingsnake.com accounted for 60%+ of their hits. However! Kingsnake.com accounted for 90%+ of their sales. Meaning that 60% of the people accounted for 90% of the sales.
There are other sites out there but they're not pulling the sales kingsnake.com is. Jeff and his site is the key to doing well in this business. Many of us have trusted Jeff with our time and money and he has abused that trust. He has grown off of our hard work and now has turned on many of us.
I don't think that's okay! I don't think he should have been given the power he has! It's looking like he doesn't really care about us and to be honest, the thing that upset me the most was this quote.
Another great Quote from Jeff:
Jeff didn't say we, our, the herp community or anything else along those lines. He doesn’t seem to see this as a site for us to enjoy. From the looks of his quotes and action he sees this as something for him to grow and to make money off. I don't think the livelihood of so many should rest on the shoulder of somebody who seems to have his and not our best interests at heart! Or at he very least not somebody who makes that as clear as he does!
Also, please read the following chat; there is some fairly scary stuff in there including his intentions for the future.
http://www.kingsnake.com/chat/011214_jeffb.htm
Here are just a few key quotes:
"Moderators will kick/ban users for violating posted rules."
Does this guy go anyplace without saying this?
"my lack of social skills"
JEFF!! If you know this why are you allowing yourself to do your business so much harm!! Let somebody else handle the customers!!! JEFF, JEFF, JEFF!! It's even worse that you know this!
"I see us limiting ourselves to the pet industry but expanding into more media formats such as radio television and film"
Okay that scares me! It's enough that he has the control he does over the herp hobby but to expand that control! Ouch!
Adam Block
Classic Dum's
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I love how you take a comment that was next to
and try to twist it, he was making a joke, are you really that brainless? See heres how that actually went since you deleted some words from your improper qoute
Looks to me like he had a chat and was having some fun with the people there, I dont see what your gripping about in there, your just crying again I guess, whats this about the 20th box of tissues?
Yes and my wanted ad for the cage is in the cage section and my wanted ad for rats is in the feeders sections, no where does it say you cannot place a wanted ad in those sections. I am sure someone from kingsnake is reading over this and if they are missplaced will let me know. In the mean time why dont you mind your own buisness and stop acting like a 6yr old trying to point the finger at everyone else.
Since your so worried about this then why after you were warned did you continue to violate TOS and why in the he!! would you send a nasty email? You try to make it out that they deleted your ad then kicked you off their site for no reason. They deleted your ad warned you and you sent them a nasty email and came crying here without giving them a chance to rectify the situation. thats why you got kicked, had you just piped down a minute and not sent off an email with your stupidity written all through it youd still be on kingsnake.
Well god forbid the guy make a living, good god what do you want from the man? Stop thinking the world revolves around you and grow up.
Adam Block
New member
Jason, you're getting very old to me so I will just tell you to go back and look at my first reply to your first responce as I'm sure it will apply to this post as well. I've managed to grow up some over the course of this post however. You're still making the same comments like, am I really this brainless and so on. I'm not going to stoop to that level anymore.
This in my eyes has become a fairly constructive thread on how to better the hobby and peoples issues with Jeff. If you would like to contrute to that and put your energy into something good then I will support that. Otherwise, I will not respond to any more of your posts as I feel it's becomming counter productive and I have enough growing up I need to do here without your little digs and jabs.
Good luck to you,
Adam Block
This in my eyes has become a fairly constructive thread on how to better the hobby and peoples issues with Jeff. If you would like to contrute to that and put your energy into something good then I will support that. Otherwise, I will not respond to any more of your posts as I feel it's becomming counter productive and I have enough growing up I need to do here without your little digs and jabs.
Good luck to you,
Adam Block
Huh! Well what do you know?
Traffic to this site hasn't been hurt at all since Jeff blocked ANY URL with 'FaunaClassifieds' in it.
Maybe this site was already banned like I had thought it was. Sorry Jeff, your being petty and blocking my access because I would not delete this thread, just hasn't had your desired effect, I am afraid.
And maybe this might be a good time to bring up something. Anyone whom would allow one person to have a controlling influence on their future is probably not doing themselves any favors. For one thing, stop relying on the classified ads in [blank].com and start building traffic to your own sites independently. Spread your ads around on the numerous free boards that abound and help them all out by putting links to them on your own site. Get your name out there everywhere and anywhere you can. As long as you lean on the crutch, you will continue to need it.
This is the World Wide Web we are talking about here. Networking. Sharing information and links. Let [blank].com become the dead end it wants to be by ushering people in and then trying to lead them to believe that the internet stops there.
Traffic to this site hasn't been hurt at all since Jeff blocked ANY URL with 'FaunaClassifieds' in it.
Maybe this site was already banned like I had thought it was. Sorry Jeff, your being petty and blocking my access because I would not delete this thread, just hasn't had your desired effect, I am afraid.
And maybe this might be a good time to bring up something. Anyone whom would allow one person to have a controlling influence on their future is probably not doing themselves any favors. For one thing, stop relying on the classified ads in [blank].com and start building traffic to your own sites independently. Spread your ads around on the numerous free boards that abound and help them all out by putting links to them on your own site. Get your name out there everywhere and anywhere you can. As long as you lean on the crutch, you will continue to need it.
This is the World Wide Web we are talking about here. Networking. Sharing information and links. Let [blank].com become the dead end it wants to be by ushering people in and then trying to lead them to believe that the internet stops there.
Classic Dum's
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I have contibuted, you just dont like that fact that my contribution was reading that chat and correctly qouting his statments. You tried to take a joke he made and twist his words to make him appear as something he is not.
I didnt take a jab at you I simple asked you a question. Taking a jab at you would be saying something like "you are a brainless babboon". I did nothing of the such I just simply asked you if you are that brainless to not see that statement for waht is was. It was a question, not a stab and the question still stands.
Ya I can tell and from your actions I can also tell anyone else who does not agree with you and jump on this "I hate kingsnake wagon" your trying to create is getting old to you as well.
Yes I know it is very counter productive for you when I blow a hole in your story by posting all the ways you violated TOS in the manner I did. So if you dont want to respond to me go ahead and dont I could care less, but as along as this thread is here and continues to tick, Ill be here to support what I believe and rip holes in your story. Once again Ill tell you, you had a second chance and blew it. They did not just kick you off the site as you seem to want to lead people to believe. They simply deleted a thread that violated TOS and then you had to go and send some half cocked email to their staff. Thats what got you kicked off kingsnake. You had every chance and blew it with the email. and Yes as long as I reply to anything you say I will continue to repeat saying this to drive the point home to you and anyones still reading this that Kingsnake.com is not what you try to make it to be and you had ever chance and blew it.
Heres some famous last words for ya
Oh wait those would be yours LOL.
Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous
Resident Pollmeister
Finally saying something here...
but this will be my only post in this thread.
First, about the BOI and faunaclassifieds being banned from kingsnake.com. Ummm, I thought that was already in effect, right? I'm not sure since I don't visit the kingsnake forums as much as I used to anymore, but I thought posting links to the BOI was forbidden a long time ago. Were link posting abilities reinstated at some point and now Jeff is cutting them off again? Sorry, was lost on that one.
Second, Adam, you even said yourself that you expected it to happen, so why are you surprised? As Jason pointed out, you DID INDEED violate kingsnake.com TOS on more than one point. You were sent a warning. You chose to be a smarta$$ in your reply, and you got the boot. Maybe it's just me, but the couple of times my ads have violated TOS, I was contacted about it and I replied asking what I did wrong in a RESPECTFUL(not groveling)way and I was answered in kind. You know what I did? I FIXED the problem so as to be in line with TOS. No harm, no foul. And although I get angry when I see my ad getting deleted for something I see other posters doing, you know what? That is between THEM and kingsnake.com, not me, them, and kingsnake.com. I have no problems selling anything amidst all the TOS violators. Also, if I get caught breaking the rules(either intentionally or unintentionally), I still BROKE the rules, regardless of how many other people are doing it. A broken rule is a broken rule Adam. Even if you are the ONLY person who is taken action against, YOU STILL BROKE THE RULE!!! Although I think maybe there needs to be more even enforcement of those rules, but if you don't break them at all, you have nothing to worry about right?
Third, stop trying to third party and pity party everything. You broke the rules no matter how many other people did, you still broke them yourself(yes I'm repeating myself and I'm aware of it). "Oh poor me, I broke the rules and got caught while everyone else gets away with it. boohoo!" Take responsibility for your own actions. You still haven't done that. Try it sometime, it's an eye-opener.
Fourth, if your business only has kingsnake.com to rely on to make sales, I would say you are screwed. NEVER put all your eggs in one basket!!! Simple rule of business. If you only have ONE avenue to move product, you might as well close your doors. Sure I have a kingsnake account and it's served me well, but I also post ads here on fauna, as well as several other free boards and classified sites, herp societies, and also word of mouth. This is not a dig at anyone in particular, but if your livelihood depends on that ONE website to keep in business, best of luck to you because you're going to need it.
Now, I know there are lots of people out there that have problems with the way Jeff is running things(I highly disagree with his choice of animal rights activist moderators, myself), but I still think his site is a valuable business tool(despite the moderators).
I hope everyone has a Merry Merry and Happy Happy!
but this will be my only post in this thread.
First, about the BOI and faunaclassifieds being banned from kingsnake.com. Ummm, I thought that was already in effect, right? I'm not sure since I don't visit the kingsnake forums as much as I used to anymore, but I thought posting links to the BOI was forbidden a long time ago. Were link posting abilities reinstated at some point and now Jeff is cutting them off again? Sorry, was lost on that one.
Second, Adam, you even said yourself that you expected it to happen, so why are you surprised? As Jason pointed out, you DID INDEED violate kingsnake.com TOS on more than one point. You were sent a warning. You chose to be a smarta$$ in your reply, and you got the boot. Maybe it's just me, but the couple of times my ads have violated TOS, I was contacted about it and I replied asking what I did wrong in a RESPECTFUL(not groveling)way and I was answered in kind. You know what I did? I FIXED the problem so as to be in line with TOS. No harm, no foul. And although I get angry when I see my ad getting deleted for something I see other posters doing, you know what? That is between THEM and kingsnake.com, not me, them, and kingsnake.com. I have no problems selling anything amidst all the TOS violators. Also, if I get caught breaking the rules(either intentionally or unintentionally), I still BROKE the rules, regardless of how many other people are doing it. A broken rule is a broken rule Adam. Even if you are the ONLY person who is taken action against, YOU STILL BROKE THE RULE!!! Although I think maybe there needs to be more even enforcement of those rules, but if you don't break them at all, you have nothing to worry about right?
Third, stop trying to third party and pity party everything. You broke the rules no matter how many other people did, you still broke them yourself(yes I'm repeating myself and I'm aware of it). "Oh poor me, I broke the rules and got caught while everyone else gets away with it. boohoo!" Take responsibility for your own actions. You still haven't done that. Try it sometime, it's an eye-opener.
Fourth, if your business only has kingsnake.com to rely on to make sales, I would say you are screwed. NEVER put all your eggs in one basket!!! Simple rule of business. If you only have ONE avenue to move product, you might as well close your doors. Sure I have a kingsnake account and it's served me well, but I also post ads here on fauna, as well as several other free boards and classified sites, herp societies, and also word of mouth. This is not a dig at anyone in particular, but if your livelihood depends on that ONE website to keep in business, best of luck to you because you're going to need it.
Now, I know there are lots of people out there that have problems with the way Jeff is running things(I highly disagree with his choice of animal rights activist moderators, myself), but I still think his site is a valuable business tool(despite the moderators).
I hope everyone has a Merry Merry and Happy Happy!
Uffern
Mental Midget
Actually, the ability to post a link to Fauna was available until the day after he said he would block it. Someone posted a link to the BOI the very day the block was mentioned. It is no longer a link, however, it is now just text, so you would have to copy and paste it. You can't even type that combination of letter anymore, though.
Just an aside, I think it is really funny when people type K i n g s n a k e, as though there is a filter here for that.
Just an aside, I think it is really funny when people type K i n g s n a k e, as though there is a filter here for that.
Adam Block
New member
Rob, very good post and extremely well worded but you missed the boat on not only my point but also my intentions.
I don't mind being held accountable when I'm at fault for something. I take accountability to the next level for that matter and I'm more then willing to take blame even for things that may not be my fault just for not knowing it would happen.
Here's a good example of what I'm talking about. The terms of IMPACT Reptiles stait that I live a very relaxed lifestyle and nothing gets done quickly. It basically says I'm a slow shipper and that's just how it is. HOWEVER, this doesn't give me the right to put people on hold for months while waiting on an item from me to move forward with a project.
In the situation with Ken I was wrong for my actions even though I said that's what I would do. As for Jeff, fine I violated TOS, he didn't want to be questioned about that so he deleted my account! Fair? Not in my eyes! His right to do? You bet! Do I have an issue or care that he deleted my account? Well, I don't care that my account got deleted because he was doing what he warned he would do and for me this would have just died away if I'd gotten a refund. But that got me thinking about how many people I've spoken with that are scared to say anything about Jeff.
My thoughts on this are that Jeff is skating a very fine line in the eyes of the law and he knows this. I think that Jeff's customer service is appalling! I think he has a total lack of respect for the herp community that made his site what it is. I also don't think any of that is right; I think he owes us just as much as we owe him!
So did I get my own account deleted, did I know it would happen? YES!
In all honesty I was tired of walking on eggshells for years with the threat of my account being deleted looming overhead. I'm an adult and don't need to have that fear of being punished by Jeff. That is exactly what I would call it, if you question, go against, don't agree with, step in his way or do something else to trigger his hair trigger you're gone! Now that my account is gone it's hurting me for sure but the freedom I have that nobody else does, the freedom to say what I want about Jeff without fear of retaleation is there.
I hope that clears up my thoughts on having my account deleted. I don't care who else Jeff deletes, whose ads he keeps or removes. Who he likes or doesn't. I'm only trying to point out how selective he is when it comes to enforcing his rules.
To me it's much like the woman I saw getting arrested on the news for not wearing her seatbelt. She was in the wrong, the cop was within the law, she basically brought it on herself for not following the law but it still wasn't right in my eyes.
Adam Block
I don't mind being held accountable when I'm at fault for something. I take accountability to the next level for that matter and I'm more then willing to take blame even for things that may not be my fault just for not knowing it would happen.
Here's a good example of what I'm talking about. The terms of IMPACT Reptiles stait that I live a very relaxed lifestyle and nothing gets done quickly. It basically says I'm a slow shipper and that's just how it is. HOWEVER, this doesn't give me the right to put people on hold for months while waiting on an item from me to move forward with a project.
In the situation with Ken I was wrong for my actions even though I said that's what I would do. As for Jeff, fine I violated TOS, he didn't want to be questioned about that so he deleted my account! Fair? Not in my eyes! His right to do? You bet! Do I have an issue or care that he deleted my account? Well, I don't care that my account got deleted because he was doing what he warned he would do and for me this would have just died away if I'd gotten a refund. But that got me thinking about how many people I've spoken with that are scared to say anything about Jeff.
My thoughts on this are that Jeff is skating a very fine line in the eyes of the law and he knows this. I think that Jeff's customer service is appalling! I think he has a total lack of respect for the herp community that made his site what it is. I also don't think any of that is right; I think he owes us just as much as we owe him!
So did I get my own account deleted, did I know it would happen? YES!
In all honesty I was tired of walking on eggshells for years with the threat of my account being deleted looming overhead. I'm an adult and don't need to have that fear of being punished by Jeff. That is exactly what I would call it, if you question, go against, don't agree with, step in his way or do something else to trigger his hair trigger you're gone! Now that my account is gone it's hurting me for sure but the freedom I have that nobody else does, the freedom to say what I want about Jeff without fear of retaleation is there.
I hope that clears up my thoughts on having my account deleted. I don't care who else Jeff deletes, whose ads he keeps or removes. Who he likes or doesn't. I'm only trying to point out how selective he is when it comes to enforcing his rules.
To me it's much like the woman I saw getting arrested on the news for not wearing her seatbelt. She was in the wrong, the cop was within the law, she basically brought it on herself for not following the law but it still wasn't right in my eyes.
Adam Block
ScottsReptiles
New member
AdamBlock said:
Just so you know Adam... I am going to save this entire thread when its over.. to show to my employees that work the shifts I manage.. with the title "know when to stop talking" You just have no idea when to stop.
Here is a basic idea for you... pauses. Pauses are a very important part of life and more importantly discussions. If you never stop flapping away with your dilusional thoughts and ideals.. then.. nobody has the time to think about what you said. You really need to learn that there is a certain time in which you have said enough for your point to come across (which was said many many pages ago) and then realize that you have crossed the line in which you are just hurting yourself even more.
about your post complaining about Jeff calling kingsnake "his business" well.. it is his business. Its not "our" business. For that to happen he will have to go public and sell stock to "his" company. Until that time only he has the right to call it his business. None of us have any financial responsibility in the daily activities of kingsnake.com
Scott
See people i violated tos and my post was deleted. Just as Jeff can delete your post if you violate tos on his site. This belongs to the web person and he can delete ads when and if he feels like it and depending on who you are you can get 10 warnings or none at all. Personally i don't mind but had to type all this that everyone has said on the first 15 pages in order to get it up. Hope i have repeated everything if not i can. See Adam if i get banned from here i will have no one to blame but my self for pushing the site owners button.. By the way i knew you guys could do it if you know what i mean...
No, I have not banned that URL or name from my site, but damn I am tempted. Turnabout is fair play, I do believe. I feel like if ol whatshisname wants to slam the door in my face and lock it, why not put my own lock on the outside of that same door? I'm sure be believes that could not hurt him, just as ONE fire ant is not that big of a deal.
The worst thing you can do to someone in business is to just completely ignore them. Even bad press is advertising.
Classic Dum's
Twisted Sister
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2002
- Messages
- 791
- Reaction score
- 7
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- 0
- Age
- 50
- Location
- york, pa land of the free!
Like a couple people before have said you should know when to shut up. How long have you been breaking the rules? From the statemnt above I am lead to believe this is not the first time you have violated TOS. So if you have been walking on eggs shells for some time you must have been doing something wrong for some length of time you knew about. Why in the world would you continue to do what you knew was wrong? Your only walking on eggs shells if you have a guilty conscience!
Adam Block
New member
I would just like to see this thread close with an email I sent to Jeff and of course got no responce. Here it is:
I just thought I'd point out that after all was said I decided to back down as it was going to be a losing situation for us both as well as the herp community.
Jeff, hasn't responded to me nor has he addressed the way he's treated webslave any anybody else. He may or may not feel a public responce is needed and that I don't know. That's his call, after all, it's his site right?
Adam Block
PS Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to this thread!
I just thought I'd point out that after all was said I decided to back down as it was going to be a losing situation for us both as well as the herp community.
Jeff, hasn't responded to me nor has he addressed the way he's treated webslave any anybody else. He may or may not feel a public responce is needed and that I don't know. That's his call, after all, it's his site right?
Adam Block
PS Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to this thread!