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HCE-Kingsnake ad. fishy?

B

BriarpatchHerps

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I've contemplated getting animals from this guy but keep steering away as it seems too good to be true. Has anyone proven any of his animals out or actually bought a pied from him?? Is it just me or do the unbelievable prices of their hets/poss hets and the fact they sold a $16,000 animal in three minutes sound suspicious? Thats got to be a new record sale.

William Horn
Briarpatch Herps




http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=82609


http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=83929
 
just in case it disappears.

the pieds and the hets were posted on April 26, 2003 at 20:10:56

then he came back to post that the pied was sold April 26, 2003 at 20:13:52


So he decided to post a classified.
And within three minutes someone
wrote him an e-mail inquiring on the details of the animals.
he wrote back with the details.
The someone wrote back to make an offer.
He wrote back to accept.
The someone sent a paypal.
He posted that the pied was sold.

That is just way too much to happen in three (3) minutes.

not that the Add contains no phone number... so they could not talk on the phone.

The add contains no paypal addy. So some Joe schmoe can't just send a payment. He would have to write an e-mail to HCE first.
 
Brian,

Has anyone proven any of his animals out or actually bought a pied from him?? Is it just me or do the unbelievable prices of their hets/poss hets and the fact they sold a $16,000 animal in three minutes sound suspicious? Thats got to be a new record sale.
Click to expand...

No, I have never heard from them before and I check the ads daily. Yes, I agree with you, it was a fast sell. Particularly for an $16,000 animal with no picture posted. There have been pieds offered for sale (with pictures) at $12,000 that were up for sale for weeks. But it can happen...

As it is fair game to ask for references, you could ask to contact the person who bought this pied. You could also ask for a picture of the pied that was sold, just "to have an idea of what to expect once you breed his heteros". ;)

Please let us know. There are a lot of new breeders out there and it's interesting to know who is breeding what.

Regards.
 
While I have to admit that I've never bought animals of such great expense over the internet, it occurs to me that if one is willing to spend upwards of ten thousand dollars for a snake from a breeder he doesn't know, might it not make sense to ante up another few hundred dollars and fly to the seller to make a face to face exchange?
You get to examine the animal in question, and if the snake is satisfactory, you can simply buy the animal with cash, or a cashier's check.
This way no one takes any risk. You simply have spent a few hundred dollars on airline ticket 'insurance', and at worst, wasted a day flying around. But think of all those great honey roasted peanuts you'll get!!

Vin Buccigrossi
 
The problem with that is of course transporting the snake back home with you!

Can you imagine flying out to inspect an animal, decide it is perfect for you, and then have to fly home and wait and pray that the shipping company delivers without problems? (granted you would probably plan for it to be on delta dash to arrive at the same airport that you are traveling to, but still can you imagine the stress of anticipation on the flight home?!)
 
William, is this the guy you were talking about that bought 20 normal females?? Just curious. If so, I could have sworn something looked very familiar to me in a recent ad. Let me know.
 
Sure is Troy...to the best of my knowledge its more than twenty, upwards of 40+.

Juat makes no sense to me someone buys large quantities of normals (all female) and always has an abundance of poss. het female pieds for sale. Perhaps because poss. het males are worthless and females arent? Not to sound cross or anything but being into the pied project why in the hell buy and resale normals to make $15 each???

William Horn
 
Sure is Troy...to the best of my knowledge its more than twenty, upwards of 40+.
Click to expand...

William,

Did you ever follow up with those heteros? His ads are apparently gone.

Troy, what was it that looked "very familiar" to you? This is a very important issue, particularly for those of us that work with ball pythons. I would like to know more about it.

Regards.
 
I remember speaking w/ William fairly recently about a guy who "possibly" be selling possible hets, I at that time realized the one in question had purchased 2-10 lots of females (nice normals) and at that time I had no idea about this "possiblity" never met him, never spoke w/ him on the phone. Just 2 quick payments via Paypal, after relatively brief emails. He seemed very happy w/ both orders, and said would contact me for more sometime. I've heard nothing back from him in awhile. I don't like "assuming" but I've heard other's question his animals as well, so I became curious and watched his ads. I work closely w/ my collection on a daily basis, almost admiring each and everyone on more than a few occassions. Although Ball Pyhons (normals) do sometimes tend to look alot alike to most, my passion for them has had me paying close attention to their indiviual unique variations. I will not swear to this, but in one of the ads I thought for a second that one of the "possible hets" photographed in an ad was a recently acquired animal (from me) but again, I could easily be mistaken. I wish I could add more to this, but all I can do is verify he's purchased normal females from me within the last month or so. I'll check back to keep myself posted on where this thread takes us.
 
Troy,

Maybe in the future you could keep a picture ID file for your normals. that will certainly aid you in recognizing a female you previously owned. What made you suspect that he might be selling possible heteros soon?

In MHO buying "possibles" from unknown breeders is the best way to be scammed without any future recourse at all. The best I have seen as far as guarantee goes so far was a picture of an axhantic peeping out of the egg, close to his sibling. The eggs were slit cut in half and the picture showed the distinct pattern of both animals. In that case you can do a possitive ID with certain accuracy.

Regards.
 
The picture ID is something I've done in the past, but have slacked lately, and I will take that good advice to heart in the future (time-time-time) we all need more hours in the day. I'm not sure what you meant by "how did I know he'd be selling possible het's soon" I reread my post, and may have missed it, but in short, when I sold him the normal females, I had no clue as to who he was, nor his intentions with these animals. It was after the fact that this was brought to my attention from someone else, so I kept an eye on his ads. Again, I can't comment either way on HCE nor his gene pool, I hope he's legite. Hopefully this will all work it's way out so we will all know the real deal here. I agree w/ you, sadly, we must do all of our homework on possible het's, I like playing the odds (respectively) but I think it's a shame we have to worry about scams with these animals. 66% are great odds, heck...so is 50% for the money, but when the "seller" knows for a fact the odds are much less (say 0%) it's a brutal lesson learned after the hard work is done. It doesn't hurt the "big guys" as bad, they've earned their reputations, and the "questioning of their honesty" is answered deservingly, but these scams hit the "little guys" pretty hard.
 
Troy,

Good points. I may have misunderstood your comment when you said:

..."I remember speaking w/ William fairly recently about a guy who "possibly" be selling possible hets,..."

Regards.
 
I always like to think.....

To outsmart the bad guy and to stay a step ahead.....you gotta think like them.
you gotta be devious and underhanded like them.

I guess I am not devious and underhanded enough.

Because it never came together in my mind that you can buy a WHOLE BUNCH of normals and easily sell them as posibles. I forgot that in ball pythons...posibles are still worth a pretty penny.

now to his ads
a "friend" of mine wrote to the guy asking him how he sold a $16,000 piebald in three minutes..
His excuse was the add was actually posted for five days. He just accidentally reposted it...so he came back to say it was sold.
Well that excuse works fine and dandy....until of course I remembered that you can delete your own d@rn ads.

Like I said....a "friend" of mine wrote to the guy. He also gave him the link to this thread...I can bet my right nut he gave him a link to this thread. But why the guy does not come here and defend himself? the world may never know
 
I did do some investigative work Alvero, emailed back and forth with him several times looking to make a deal....he couldnt supply pics of his pieds. Then after a couple weeks his "son" emails me a pic of a het with the comments "Im sending this for dad, hope its the right one"

sooooo I created a junk email addy and contacted him about a trade, he was up for the deal (anyone contacting him will find he'll trade those high dollar animals for a handfull of magic beans) I asked for pics of the pied parent and after a week or so the son once again sends me a photo "I hope this is the right one". Now the parent pied I recieved a pic of was an animal that produced pieds, hets and poss. hets late last year or this spring right? Well, I then posted the animals photo on Kingsnake to see if anyone reccognized it.....Im instantly emailed being told the animal is his which he JUST BOUGHT the week prior. Like 3-6 months after producing animals for him THEN he purchased it? >adur<

Now within literally a few hours of his email stating the animals his KS sends me a warning that my post was removed.....care to speculate why or why the classifieds were scanned for inapropriate ads at 11pm ES time?

William Horn
Briarpatch Herps
 
William,

Regrettably I didn't keep a record of his name, address or contact. It would be important to have it here. Do you have that information, and do you care to post it?

Thanks in advance.
 
Heres the info Alvaro (sorry for spelling your name wrong last post)

Harry Eisenmann 803-548-5520
996 Cranberry Circle
Ft Mill SC 29715

William Horn
Briarpatch Herps
 
Thanks William!

sorry for spelling your name wrong last post

No problem.

Regards.
 
Good job Ritchie! Thanks to William too for keeping their eyes open.

Regards.
 
Just wanted to let everyone know I just received 2 female het pieds from him today. I will try to get a pic of them and see if anyone recognizes it. I am going today to see if the microchips are the right numbers. I will say he packaged them very well with heat packs and all, and both ate within 1 hr of being here. One was a bit smaller then he said. Also some of you may want to look into some of the other het pieds being offered right now. I am pretty sure some of them came from him. Well if anyone wants to send me a free adult pied male next year and prove them one way or the other I will be happy to accept.lol. OBTW he also did not send me a receipt. I do have all our email correspondences, and I think that was just an oversight. I let him know and hopefully he will get it right out. Craig Kade
 
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