Heather Stotz- Sandstone Corns

[Joejr14]

Laura-

"Cala's Corns guarantees overnight delivery through FedEx. One stipulation regarding this policy is that someone must be there to sign for the delivery on the first attempt. If the first delivery attempt fails, this guarantee is voided, NO exceptions! Also, if you have a 'signature waiver' on file with FedEx, this will void your live arrival guarantee. Any problems associated with shipping are to be directed to Cala's Corns only. Please DO NOT contact FedEx about late delivery or DOA animals. Cala's Corns bears the sole responsibility of the live animal guarantee. Shipping fees will vary and I do not believe in charging a flat fee. Please inquire about shipping charges to your area before purchasing. The charges will normally run between $40 and $60, depending on location. Please bear in mind that this is a per box charge, and not per snake. That being said, many animals can fit into the same box. If you have any questions about this, please do not hesitate to ask. If you can not be at your residence to accept your animal(s), most FedEx locations will allow packages to be held at that location. I feel this is safer than shipping to a residential address and would suggest choosing that option whenever possible. Additionally, all shipments that are held at the Fedex location are guaranteed for that day ONLY. If you fail to pick the box up on that day, my guarantee is voided. I'm sorry to do this, but I cannot be responsible for your delay in picking the package up."


Do you think that this means I don't have a waiver to ship snakes through FedEx? I can assure you that I in fact do. I'm not saying that Heather wasn't in the wrong---whether intentional or not---and I'm assuming it was not intentional, but you cannot say that just because her terms read that way she doesn't have a FedEx account setup.

The reason for asking customers NOT to contact FedEx is simply because the people who work the 800 number are idiots. 99.9% of them have no idea FedEx allows the shipping of live animals (specifically snakes) and will argue with you when it is brought up. Also, I can better handle a shipping situation since I am an account holder and will not be paranoid over a lost or delayed shipment. Asking the customer not to call is for the betterment of the business---the last thing we need as an industry is to have freaking out people calling FedEx screaming about missed packages and stuff---we don't need FedEx dropping the live animal exception because they're gotten crap about it.

Heather's Terms and Shipping: http://www.sandstonecorns.com/id21.htm
"SandStone Corns guarantees live, 100% healthy, and properly sexed animals. We ship Federal Express Priority Overnight (10:30 am delivery) directly to your door."

Further down her Terms page: "I do not cut any corners on any aspect of the shipping."

Even more from the same page: "WE ARE NOW SHIPPING VIA PRIORITY OVERNIGHT DELIVERY - SHIPPING COST IS A FLAT RATE FEE OF $50.00 ... We DO NOT cut corners when it comes to shipping."

Finally, this (interesting, especially when she wants to blame an authorized FedEx shipper, Zip & Ship, of opening her package, then refusing to ship.)
"The guarantee of live delivery will be born exclusively by SANDSTONE CORNS. The carrier chosen to deliver the package is not going to be responsible and the customer is asked to PLEASE do not contact them about any problems. Any problems you experience are to be directed to us and us alone."

I realize the above is more intended for DOA's or as relates to her live arrival guarantee, but ironic that she specifically asks customers NOT to contact a carrier re: problems. Seems to me that an authorized FedEx agent opening a package properly marked "live harmless reptile" in and of itself is a reportable problem.
It also seems odd, that in Heather's small town, where there is one Zip & Ship and one USPS, that the lady that owns Zip & Ship would even WANT to open a package if Heather regularly ships FedEx thru her store. Surely she already knows Heather ships "live harmless reptiles" and is familiar with Heather's account. Why open a package then when the agent should have seen others shipped prior and never opened them. Makes no sense.

And as already pointed out, Heather's mom "mistakenly" took the packages to the USPS marked "live harmless reptiles" and the packages were accepted? Bunk.

~ Laura Bolt

 

[LauraB]

Joe ...

Do you think that this means I don't have a waiver to ship snakes through FedEx?

No, I don't think this means you don't have a waiver to ship snakes thru FedEx. I don't recall intimating you didn't!

and I'm assuming it was not intentional, but you cannot say that just because her terms read that way she doesn't have a FedEx account setup.

I also don't recall saying she doesn't have a FedEx account set up, either.

That said, thanks for the clarification on why a seller would request that buyers not contact shippers re: problems. I understand better now (I've never had a problem with shipping nor sellers, so have never had to rectify a problem. I was unaware that FedEx was so difficult to work with, and understand your reasoning, if only for the betterment of the industry. Makes sense).

~ Laura Bolt

 

[Thomas E]

That's a good point Joe. Yeah, I was going to say earlier that I have seen some discussions where people have said they even prefer not to write 'live harmless reptiles' on the box even when they do ship Fed Ex. The reason given was that many (and I know this is true) Fed Ex employees believe it is illegal to ship reptiles period! I've heard that the law does require it (live harmless reptile label) but I can kind of understand where someone would not do it if they had had a prior hold up over some employees understanding of the company policy.
So I'm not convinced that she did it intentionally. At least not on that alone, though there are a few sticking points for me with her email. For instance the way she always says 'Shipping place' instead of Fed Ex, and the way she avoided mention of tracking numbers- But whatever that's speculation. Let's just say I'm not convinced she didn't either. The main thing though is that I'm absolutely positive that she's just as responsible as if she had.

Bottom line, I don't think her mother is an approved shipper of live reptiles with anyone. Now I haven't done it, but I would imagine there is a bit of hoop jumping required in order to become a certified shipper. That's not just for kicks as we now see..

 

[Thomas E]

Since I referenced another email from her, I had better back that up. Here's the last bits of communication from me to her, that are relevent to those points.

from me: Dec 12th

"Hey Heather,
Have you got a tracking number? I'm still at the house waiting.. Nothing yet. Never had one take this long before, then again it is the holidays, lol."

No response all day. Also sent PM's which I can't get copies of..

"That evening I wrote again

Please call me Heather,


805-XXX-XXXX" (blocked out here only for my privacy..)"

Later another customer of hers with the same problem found me via my interest in the ad and let me know that she was having similar problems. I won't say anything on her behalf (no "he said she said") but we brainstormed about what we should do and she pointed out to me that Heather's number was in the ad- I didn't know it prior to that, as it's not listed on her homepage. Called as well and left message.

Next day I get this:

"Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, I've had the stomach flu or food poisoning or something that's kept me in bed all of yesterday and most of today. Still feeling pretty yucky. I checked with the shipping place and they swear that he's coming in today. (Some kind of screw-up, I'm not quite sure who did what yet- but I'm still checking on it). They say by 3:00 today he should be at your place. That's the best I can do right now, I'll try to get more information later. Let me know when he shows up. So sorry!"

Not sure what happened? But who are THEY who told you 3:00? By the way I had the snake before this reply. Did you track that I'd picked it up already and so maybe it was 'safer' to contact me finally? Maybe I'd be so happy to see him safely there that I'd just forget about it and drop the whole thing?

My response was rather short and angry. I won't post it publicly unless someone says they want me to.. I'm not ashamed of it, just don't want to be needlessly mean right now. I think it's fair to say that I accused her of being dishonest about that, and I suggested that I had a pretty good idea of what happened.

Her reply in part,

"I'm sorry it got shipped through the post office, but by the time I found out- it was too late so yes, I kept it to myself."

So even more important if there's a lesson to be learned, is don't be so scared of the confrontation that you make the problems worse.

I don't want it to snowball out of control on this board. What I'm essentially saying is that she did wrong. I didn't get burned, I have a great snake at a great price. Heather, I don't think will EVER let this happen again. I posted this for that reason. You are what 23 years old Heather? I feel like a jerk in a way (TBH) cause you're a kid really.. I don't know how I'd have compared at 23. Unfortunately, you're also an adult. You can tell people what happened, but you can't make excuses. You're well past the age of blaming mom, and when you send anybody on "Sandstone Corns" errands, you are ultimately the person it falls on regardless if something goes wrong.

I do know some people have mentioned having good experiences with you since this began, hopefully your 'good guy' reports will pop up if that's the case. But I do think that I would want to know about this experience if I was considering buying from you..

 

[norsmis]

Tom, I am still on the fence about Heather but you my man, are a hell of a stand up guy! I would do business with you any day. I think you handled this situation better than most and I have to commend you on it.
As for Heather, I am sure the truth will come out, good or bad and I hope she learned a valuable lesson if nothing else... TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since I referenced another email from her, I had better back that up. Here's the last bits of communication from me to her, that are relevent to those points.

from me: Dec 12th

"Hey Heather,
Have you got a tracking number? I'm still at the house waiting.. Nothing yet. Never had one take this long before, then again it is the holidays, lol."

No response all day. Also sent PM's which I can't get copies of..

"That evening I wrote again

Please call me Heather,


805-XXX-XXXX" (blocked out here only for my privacy..)"

Later another customer of hers with the same problem found me via my interest in the ad and let me know that she was having similar problems. I won't say anything on her behalf (no "he said she said") but we brainstormed about what we should do and she pointed out to me that Heather's number was in the ad- I didn't know it prior to that, as it's not listed on her homepage. Called as well and left message.

Next day I get this:

"Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, I've had the stomach flu or food poisoning or something that's kept me in bed all of yesterday and most of today. Still feeling pretty yucky. I checked with the shipping place and they swear that he's coming in today. (Some kind of screw-up, I'm not quite sure who did what yet- but I'm still checking on it). They say by 3:00 today he should be at your place. That's the best I can do right now, I'll try to get more information later. Let me know when he shows up. So sorry!"

Not sure what happened? But who are THEY who told you 3:00? By the way I had the snake before this reply. Did you track that I'd picked it up already and so maybe it was 'safer' to contact me finally? Maybe I'd be so happy to see him safely there that I'd just forget about it and drop the whole thing?

My response was rather short and angry. I won't post it publicly unless someone says they want me to.. I'm not ashamed of it, just don't want to be needlessly mean right now. I think it's fair to say that I accused her of being dishonest about that, and I suggested that I had a pretty good idea of what happened.

Her reply in part,

"I'm sorry it got shipped through the post office, but by the time I found out- it was too late so yes, I kept it to myself."

So even more important if there's a lesson to be learned, is don't be so scared of the confrontation that you make the problems worse.

I don't want it to snowball out of control on this board. What I'm essentially saying is that she did wrong. I didn't get burned, I have a great snake at a great price. Heather, I don't think will EVER let this happen again. I posted this for that reason. You are what 23 years old Heather? I feel like a jerk in a way (TBH) cause you're a kid really.. I don't know how I'd have compared at 23. Unfortunately, you're also an adult. You can tell people what happened, but you can't make excuses. You're well past the age of blaming mom, and when you send anybody on "Sandstone Corns" errands, you are ultimately the person it falls on regardless if something goes wrong.

I do know some people have mentioned having good experiences with you since this began, hopefully your 'good guy' reports will pop up if that's the case. But I do think that I would want to know about this experience if I was considering buying from you..

 

[SPJ]

If you have a valid account, there is NO reason why you couldn't print the label from home and have Fed Ex pick up the box and not deal with Zip and Ship. You get a discount for shipping by using the online feature.

Also, if you have an account, there is no reason for them to refuse to ship. Just present them with the waiver and if they still refused or opened the box, call your rep.

I say BULLSHIT on the whole thing. The excuses are crap. She shipped the cheap route.

 

[Wilomn]

Is this her first mishap? If it is then perhaps a little slack would be in order. If it's not then full speed ahead.

It was mentioned that she's only 23, just a pup as it were. IF this is her first major screwup then there's a good chance it will be her only major screwup IF we let her catch her breath.

Heather, got anything to say? Was this your first screwup? And I'm not looking for excuses, frankly they don't wash, but I would like to know that you aren't a bad guy in the making and that this little hiccup will be all it takes for you to be honest and do things properly from now on.

 

[SPJ]

Is this her first mishap? If it is then perhaps a little slack would be in order. If it's not then full speed ahead.

It was mentioned that she's only 23, just a pup as it were. IF this is her first major screwup then there's a good chance it will be her only major screwup IF we let her catch her breath.

Heather, got anything to say? Was this your first screwup? And I'm not looking for excuses, frankly they don't wash, but I would like to know that you aren't a bad guy in the making and that this little hiccup will be all it takes for you to be honest and do things properly from now on.

Hopefully this was a one time thing but I have my doubts based on the fact that she claims everyone and their brother is at fault except her.

 

[T and J's Corns]

Sounds like she DOESN'T have an approved live reptile shipping account with Fed Ex. If she did and they opened the box, there should have been a call right from the Zip & Ship to the rep complaining.

I myself am still awaiting FedEx to send me my waiver.. The advice I got from a very well known person here, told me she attaches a copy of her waiver when she sends things.. This way there is no if's ands or butts from the FedEx representives on any part.. If FedEx gets off their duff to send me the waiver, I would try to figure out a way * I don't own a scanner * to see if I could post it with the obvious stuff balcked out for my own good..


*shrugs* Sounds like your week has gone from bad to absolutely worse, and maybe even catastrophic.. Hopefully your other shipment arrived finally with better results.. We can only encourage others in the community to follow through to the best of their ability..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[Joejr14]

I wasn't suggesting that you said/thought that I didn't have a waiver, I was merely bringing it up to show a point regarding Heather's terms. From my perspective it appeared that having that line in your terms somewhat suggested you might be 'illegally shipping' or shipping 'shady'. I wanted to clarify why I personally have that particular line in my terms---and in fact I copied that portion from Don @ SMR.

FedEx isn't really difficult to work with, per se, it's just that when you sign that waiver you lose quite a lot of liberties that you wouldn't if you were just shipping a regular box. For example, the minute that waiver is in your file, you lose the right to get refunded any and all shipping costs for whatever reason. You also lose the right to any insurance claims, ie. if you shipped a $1000 snake and the FedEx truck ran it over, you're SOL. In cases like this I'd much rather have MYSELF calling FedEx to discuss it with them than having a very pissed off customer with a squished snake, ya know?

I figure if we as an industry become a pain in the ass to FedEx with people calling up bitching about their snake being lost in transit somewhere, we stand a chance of having FedEx pack up their bags and go home....

That would suck.

No, I don't think this means you don't have a waiver to ship snakes thru FedEx. I don't recall intimating you didn't!

I also don't recall saying she doesn't have a FedEx account set up, either.

That said, thanks for the clarification on why a seller would request that buyers not contact shippers re: problems. I understand better now (I've never had a problem with shipping nor sellers, so have never had to rectify a problem. I was unaware that FedEx was so difficult to work with, and understand your reasoning, if only for the betterment of the industry. Makes sense).

~ Laura Bolt

 

[Joejr14]

I myself am still awaiting FedEx to send me my waiver.. The advice I got from a very well known person here, told me she attaches a copy of her waiver when she sends things.. This way there is no if's ands or butts from the FedEx representives on any part.. If FedEx gets off their duff to send me the waiver, I would try to figure out a way * I don't own a scanner * to see if I could post it with the obvious stuff balcked out for my own good..


*shrugs* Sounds like your week has gone from bad to absolutely worse, and maybe even catastrophic.. Hopefully your other shipment arrived finally with better results.. We can only encourage others in the community to follow through to the best of their ability..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

I can actually do this, Tim. Give me a few minutes to run down to my truck to grab the copy that I've got and I'll scan it in.

 

[Joejr14]

Correct, Tom. 99% of FedEx employees have no clue about the waiver---and this is why I have a copy of mine in my truck---just in case some idiot at the counter freaks out.

I'll admit I don't normally write 'live harmless reptile' on my shipping boxes. Sometimes I do, other times I don't. Apparently there's no 'waiver' actually in/on your file. So when you call FedEx that's why they're clueless. I shipped a package last year to a FedEx Kinkos and the girl forgot it was coming....so I called to see if I could get it into the truck for delivery the next day. I calmly explained to the idiot who answered what the situation was and he FREAKED out. He told me that he had taken classes and was well aware that FedEx did NOT ship any live animals under ANY circumstance. I tried explaining that I had a waiver from the Legal Dept but he just didn't care---he had been to a class!

My understanding is that the Lacy Act requires you to label your box with the common name and latin name of whatever animal you are shipping. I don't believe there's any law requiring you to put 'live harmless reptile' on it. And I really don't think it's beneficial to do so.

And for whatever it counts, I don't believe she did it on purpose. She's only 23 (heck I'm only 24) but she's in the start up phase of her business, and I don't believe she's actually shipped out that many packages. So guys this might all be fairly new to her---and yes, she needs to own up to her mistake and accept on consequences for the mistake---which I'm sure she will.

First time offense, let's take it a bit easy.

That's a good point Joe. Yeah, I was going to say earlier that I have seen some discussions where people have said they even prefer not to write 'live harmless reptiles' on the box even when they do ship Fed Ex. The reason given was that many (and I know this is true) Fed Ex employees believe it is illegal to ship reptiles period! I've heard that the law does require it (live harmless reptile label) but I can kind of understand where someone would not do it if they had had a prior hold up over some employees understanding of the company policy.
So I'm not convinced that she did it intentionally. At least not on that alone, though there are a few sticking points for me with her email. For instance the way she always says 'Shipping place' instead of Fed Ex, and the way she avoided mention of tracking numbers- But whatever that's speculation. Let's just say I'm not convinced she didn't either. The main thing though is that I'm absolutely positive that she's just as responsible as if she had.

Bottom line, I don't think her mother is an approved shipper of live reptiles with anyone. Now I haven't done it, but I would imagine there is a bit of hoop jumping required in order to become a certified shipper. That's not just for kicks as we now see..

 

[T and J's Corns]

Joe mentioned..

I can actually do this, Tim. Give me a few minutes to run down to my truck to grab the copy that I've got and I'll scan it in.

Cool beans Bro.. Appreciated..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I have the waiver in a PDF file, but what is the purpose of posting it?

 

[T and J's Corns]

I have the waiver in a PDF file, but what is the purpose of posting it?

Maybe Heather doesn't know she needs a waivier and might actually see what the waiver looks like, and get things corrected if need be with her shipper.. *shrugs* Other than that Dennis, it would just be another obnoixious post..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[Joejr14]

Shrugs, but here it is....

 

[omni]

So Thomas paid for FedEx Overnight delivery ($50 or was it $60) and it arrived via USPS? Last time I shipped something USPS Overnight the cost of postage was about $21 for a 1.5lb box. Thomas were you offered a partial refund of the shipping fee charged? That'd be at least 25 bucks or more difference for the service charged and not provided by the seller.
Mail tampering is a Very serious offense, Federal if I recall. I seriously doubt any employee of a mail office be it Kinko's, UPS, Fedex, Ship and Zip or whoever would allow their child to "rip open a box" and "basically destroying it" to see what was inside. Small town or not, anyone entrusted to recieve and process US mail is required to abide by Federal law regarding handling of mail.
"Owner's son" ? The owner of Ship and Zip would've been well aware of the laws and probably had to sign a form stating they understood the laws regarding handling and would've told his kid to "not mess with anything" for fear of losing his business and being fined heavily (at least).
On the other hand, it'd be very easy and tempting to make a little more cash off the snake by shipping via a cheaper method and making a couple excuses up. Cornsnakes are not very profitable anyway unless you have a large program already set up. I know this having sold Amels and Anerys locally to pet stores for $16-25, taking a loss just to pay for feeding of my other animals.

A ferret with cancer? How was it discovered that the ferret had that? Was it taken to a vet, and can some pic of the vet bill be posted to verify this?
Excuse me if I'm skeptical, but it's just too easy to make excuses to pinch off a little more money hoping to slip it by. (the tired "death in the family excuse")

Too ate up with stomach flu or food poisoning to send an email? Oh, but a call to the vet for an appointment and the packing up the ferret for the drive to the vet and dropping it off and a drive back home done? (now the personal illness excuse + the death-in-the-family excuse)
So Mom took the snake with instructions to mail it and botched it. Now it's(the pawning-off-on-other to redirect blame + personal illness + the death-in-the-family excuse).
Then the avoiding sending a tracking # to Thomas (for the gig woulda been up right then that Fedex wasn't used to ship)
I'm sorry for being cynical, but the odds of these events happening w/o conscious intent on what should've been a simple transaction have to be at least 1 in 38 million. I've seen similiar excuses too many times here reading the BOI for any of them, and together all at once to be a true relating of what went on.
So while I may be nobody important to judge, I am part of the buying public, and pretty cautious when buying something online, especially exotic pets. Unless I see Heather give credence to her story or provide some partial refund of shipping and make an apology, I would not buy from or reccomend her.

Mistakes and adverse things DO happen. Murpy's Law will make sure of that. BUT to avoid responsibilty and then make excuses whilst pocketing a few extra bucks in the process vs. owning up and asking forgiveness for a screwup... well, it's hard enough to scratch out a living selling animals and seeing the antics by those less than legit doesn't make it any easier for anyone.

 

[T and J's Corns]

OT..

Cornsnakes are not very profitable anyway unless you have a large program already set up. I know this having sold Amels and Anerys locally to pet stores for $16-25, taking a loss just to pay for feeding of my other animals.

I guess you need to read the thread at CS.com..

A brief passage from the thread there..

This isn't the BOI, so I won't do any heavy bashing, but this situation would have greatly upset me. If I spend $1650 on the Hypo-Plasma project snakes, they're going to be MAILED to me? Even setting aside the legal implications for the shipper AND receiver (it IS illegal to ship snakes via USPS), it seems a crazy risk, particularly at this time of year. I sure hope there was a live arrival guarantee...

The link to the thread again... http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59945

Of course the other deal in the thread does not involve your run of the mill amel or anery corns that eat up all your profit .. *shrugs*

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[loteer]

I am a little on the fence rather this was intentional or not but ...

in post number 2 Heather states "So I send my mom, with the packages and instructions to mail them out, next day, at the fedex place and to use the name on my account. Somehow, when she returns home, she hands me receipts from the post office. I was more than a little suprised."

To me that means Heather knew that the snakes had been shipped USPS and didn't notify Tom

And in post number 24 in an email she sent Tom she states " I checked with the shipping place and they swear that he's coming in today. (Some kind of screw-up, I'm not quite sure who did what yet- but I'm still checking on it). They say by 3:00 today he should be at your place. That's the best I can do right now, I'll try to get more information later. Let me know when he shows up. So sorry!"

In the email she says "the shipping place" like she doesn't want to admit the package was sent USPS. Then she claims some kind of screw up but again she had to have known what was happening.

To make it worse she says "that's the best i can do right now, I'll try to get more info later." I don't think that was the best she could have done.

Just my 2 cents
Jason

 

[omni]

OK I'm years behind anyone who produces the new morphs, so I'm not a good reference for the market(my whole colony is valued at $750 now with newer morphs and hets)... but selling off future breeders of some high-enders seems not too profitable either if you don't produce them